Politics & Stuff

[robsblubot 3,595]

7 hours ago, YorkshireBlue said:

How is it selfish? His way of thinking is exactly that, he doesn't have to think about you or anybody else especially when it comes to anything political, if ppl don't like something, that's there problem not anybody else's, what's selfish is people ramming there beliefs political views and any other views down people's throats just because they don't agree.

This is my view

Politics is a waste of time it's all corrupt 

There are only 2 genders 

Religion is the number 1 reason for all wars and it's all bollocks 

White American college students are the dumbest MFs  currently on the planet 

I honestly couldn't give 2 wanks if u think my views are selfish. 

You just described a selfish point of view: as long as things are going well for me, my fellow countrymen can screw themselves. Human beings live in a society for a reason.
"waste of time they are all corrupt" really makes the job of corrupt politicians a lot easier. Some of them are indeed corrupt, and it is our job, the ones who elect them to hold them accountable, because evidently no one else will.

I mostly agree with your other points, so not really sure how they relate. 🙂

Yes, selfish views are usually unapologetic for some strange reason.
There was a time I thought exactly the same. In the end of the day tho, we still live in that same society, and the decisions made by these politicians can directly affect your life. Taxes, laws, wars... they all can.

Regarding the discussion in itself, the weird part is coming to "Politics & Stuff" and complaining that people are discussing "Politics & Stuff". 🤷‍♂️

[cosmicway 1,333]

1 hour ago, robsblubot said:

You just described a selfish point of view: as long as things are going well for me, my fellow countrymen can screw themselves. Human beings live in a society for a reason.
"waste of time they are all corrupt" really makes the job of corrupt politicians a lot easier. Some of them are indeed corrupt, and it is our job, the ones who elect them to hold them accountable, because evidently no one else will.

I mostly agree with your other points, so not really sure how they relate. 🙂

Yes, selfish views are usually unapologetic for some strange reason.
There was a time I thought exactly the same. In the end of the day tho, we still live in that same society, and the decisions made by these politicians can directly affect your life. Taxes, laws, wars... they all can.

Regarding the discussion in itself, the weird part is coming to "Politics & Stuff" and complaining that people are discussing "Politics & Stuff". 🤷‍♂️

You cannot beat corruption whatever you do or say.
In fact there exist dictatorships under parliamentary cloak all over the place.
But to change those with the original dictatorships is hardly recomended.
It would be like throwing your old car over a cliff because it is old and walk the rest of the 500 miles to the nearest civilization.

As for me all I can expect from the government is ... not to allow Erdogan reach the outskirts of Athens, the toll boths.
Nothing else and that may be too much.
I realise of course that all political parties have numerous cronies ready to jump into the gravy train and they do.

Tell me this:
How much does it cost to install a voting website ?
The voting could be about anything, for example "who do you fancy as the next Chelsea manager Maresca, Zerbi or Mc Kenna".
To vote you have to go to a local office where they are logged in to the website and you can vote.
So you don't vote twice you are logged out from the voter's page after you place your vote and the operator in the next room has to login again for the next customer.
Your vote is transmitted via the internet to some other url where all the votes are added and the partial sums are displayed.
If this cannot be done with freebies tell me someone how much it would cost.

Edited June 2, 2024 by cosmicway

[robsblubot 3,595]

26 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

You cannot beat corruption whatever you do or say.
In fact there exist dictatorships under parliamentary cloak all over the place.
But to change those with the original dictatorships is hardly recomended.
It would be like throwing your old car over a cliff because it is old and walk the rest of the 500 miles to the nearest civilization.

As for me all I can expect from the government is ... not to allow Erdogan reach the outskirts of Athens, the toll boths.
Nothing else and that may be too much.
I realise of course that all political parties have numerous cronies ready to jump into the gravy train and they do.

Tell me this:
How much does it cost to install a voting website ?
The voting could be about anything, for example "who do you fancy as the next Chelsea manager Maresca, Zerbi or Mc Kenna".
To vote you have to go to a local office where they are logged in to the website and you can vote.
So you don't vote twice you are logged out from the voter's page after you place your vote and the operator in the next room has to login again for the next customer.
Your vote is transmitted via the internet to some other url where all the votes are added and the partial sums are displayed.
If this cannot be done with freebies tell me someone how much it would cost.

In engineering we know that no system is perfect. This is obvious to any engineer, because we deal with tradeoffs in a daily basis. And yet the majority of the population expect systems, like the Electoral system or the Political system, to be perfect.

That's very silly IMO. We do the best we can, and try to minimize the corruption in politics by eliminating the people who abuse the system. Which is what some of us here say about trump, as there have been few politicians in the US (yes he is very much one) who abused the system like he did and does.

Yeah "voting website" or voting local office, does not mean anything to me, so can't comment. I'm very familia with security in computer systems given that's part of my work. There very good mechanisms to verify identify, many of which are used when you make online purchases, and they work very well, evidently.

BTW, the US elections are manual -- there are no electronic ballots given those fears.

[Clockwork 1,794]

9 hours ago, YorkshireBlue said:

How is it selfish? His way of thinking is exactly that, he doesn't have to think about you or anybody else especially when it comes to anything political, if ppl don't like something, that's there problem not anybody else's, what's selfish is people ramming there beliefs political views and any other views down people's throats just because they don't agree.

This is my view

Politics is a waste of time it's all corrupt 

There are only 2 genders 

Religion is the number 1 reason for all wars and it's all bollocks 

White American college students are the dumbest MFs  currently on the planet 

I honestly couldn't give 2 wanks if u think my views are selfish. 

This is false, humans are tribal, religion is another manifestation of it. Even without religion people will look for another tribe to engrain themselves into. The concept of country would still exist. Religion one of the symptoms, not the cause. Land and resources is the number 1 reason. I would argue religion has probably lowered wars.

Every war is the same, it is the same tribal warfare that has been fought since the beginning. Wars been fought for the purpose and benefit of tribal leaders kings, emperors, president, elites, etc and those that actually do the fighting have always been those that are lower in the pyramid of social hierarchy and they don't reap the benefit of the wars.

Remove the names, countries, religion, ethnicity, etc you would see it is the same tribal wars. 

If you think about it football is another manifestation of tribes, thankfully it is a non violent form. 

[Fulham Broadway 17,299]

24 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

Land and resources is the number 1 reason.

There is also a very strong profit motive in war. The billionaires and shareholders of #1 export in the World need to ensure their products are used. Their media billionaire mates cooperate by letting everyone know ''the world is a dangerous place and you need to be scared''. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

43 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

This is false, humans are tribal, religion is another manifestation of it. Even without religion people will look for another tribe to engrain themselves into. The concept of country would still exist. Religion one of the symptoms, not the cause. Land and resources is the number 1 reason. I would argue religion has probably lowered wars.

Every war is the same, it is the same tribal warfare that has been fought since the beginning. Wars been fought for the purpose and benefit of tribal leaders kings, emperors, president, elites, etc and those that actually do the fighting have always been those that are lower in the pyramid of social hierarchy and they don't reap the benefit of the wars.

Remove the names, countries, religion, ethnicity, etc you would see it is the same tribal wars. 

If you think about it football is another manifestation of tribes, thankfully it is a non violent form. 

Good post.

Not sure I agree that religion plays a lesser part in wars, but do agree with the rest. Also that we'd find other ways to wage wars as well, as we have in the past. They would be prob smaller in scale tho:
Yuval Noah Harari wrote in Sapiens something like (haven't found the exact quote) that religion is the most effective way to make people who have little in common, and don't even live near each other, fight for the same cause in a war.
In short, religion can increase the number of people involved in wars in a drastic way.

Edited June 2, 2024 by robsblubot

[YorkshireBlue 3,264]

1 hour ago, Clockwork said:

This is false, humans are tribal, religion is another manifestation of it. Even without religion people will look for another tribe to engrain themselves into. The concept of country would still exist. Religion one of the symptoms, not the cause. Land and resources is the number 1 reason. I would argue religion has probably lowered wars.

Every war is the same, it is the same tribal warfare that has been fought since the beginning. Wars been fought for the purpose and benefit of tribal leaders kings, emperors, president, elites, etc and those that actually do the fighting have always been those that are lower in the pyramid of social hierarchy and they don't reap the benefit of the wars.

Remove the names, countries, religion, ethnicity, etc you would see it is the same tribal wars. 

If you think about it football is another manifestation of tribes, thankfully it is a non violent form. 

Wars are fought for land and what ever else you said, but in the name or religion, when people are bombing arenas in the name of a god, that's an act of terrorism in the name of religion or how they see the religion, ww2 Hitler went after a certain religion and killed as many as he could, land is a profit of war but not always the reason.

[YorkshireBlue 3,264]

1 hour ago, robsblubot said:

In engineering we know that no system is perfect. This is obvious to any engineer, because we deal with tradeoffs in a daily basis. And yet the majority of the population expect systems, like the Electoral system or the Political system, to be perfect.

That's very silly IMO. We do the best we can, and try to minimize the corruption in politics by eliminating the people who abuse the system. Which is what some of us here say about trump, as there have been few politicians in the US (yes he is very much one) who abused the system like he did and does.

Yeah "voting website" or voting local office, does not mean anything to me, so can't comment. I'm very familia with security in computer systems given that's part of my work. There very good mechanisms to verify identify, many of which are used when you make online purchases, and they work very well, evidently.

BTW, the US elections are manual -- there are no electronic ballots given those fears.

If you eliminated everyone who abused the system there would be no one left, and no normal person expects the system to be perfect.. far from it! What we expect is if you say something fucking do it! End of, also on another posted you replied to saying it's selfish because of taxes etc, it's non of my business what taxes you pay and it's not for me to vote in such away that helps you with your taxes..... I'll vote for who I want because I want to, not because bob down the road might get 10% extra on his benefits or are Linda can pay 2% less tax, there problems are fuck all to do with me. Call that selfish all you want but I look after my family and do what's best for them, because no one else will, so again I ask why should I care what taxes ppl pay?   

[robsblubot 3,595]

54 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

If you eliminated everyone who abused the system there would be no one left, and no normal person expects the system to be perfect.. far from it! What we expect is if you say something fucking do it! End of, also on another posted you replied to saying it's selfish because of taxes etc, it's non of my business what taxes you pay and it's not for me to vote in such away that helps you with your taxes..... I'll vote for who I want because I want to, not because bob down the road might get 10% extra on his benefits or are Linda can pay 2% less tax, there problems are fuck all to do with me. Call that selfish all you want but I look after my family and do what's best for them, because no one else will, so again I ask why should I care what taxes ppl pay?   

Probably, but again, we do the best we can not to end up with Hitler as commander in chief. It's NOT a binary choice here: there are quite distinct levels of abuse.
Some people do conflate fraud with mass fraud, for example. It's incredibly more difficult to spot and prevent small things, but it gets easier when it's done in large scale: applies to much of crime in general.

Regarding taxes, you do tho. We do have control over that at local and federal level. It depends which party we elect and the the policies behind that.
I don't care too much myself as I have the luxury to not care, but I can certainly emphasize with colleagues and friends if they feel otherwise.

Edited June 2, 2024 by robsblubot

[YorkshireBlue 3,264]

3 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

Probably, but again, we do the best we can not to end up with Hitler as commander in chief. It's NOT a binary choice here: there are quite distinct levels of abuse.
Some people do conflate fraud with mass fraud, for example. It's incredibly more difficult to spot and prevent small things, but it gets easier when it's done in large scale: applies to much of crime in general.

Regarding taxes, you do tho. We do have control over that at local and federal level. It depends which party we elect and the the policies behind that.
I don't care too much myself as I have the luxury to not care, but I can certainly emphasize with colleagues and friends if they feel otherwise.

Here in the UK it doesn't work like that, we don't have separate run states, it's a whole thing and we all pay the same, and get the same regardless of county.

[NikkiCFC 8,286]

1 hour ago, YorkshireBlue said:

22 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

 

I don't care too much myself as I have the luxury to not care, but I can certainly emphasize with colleagues and friends if they feel otherwise.

 Call that selfish all you want but I look after my family and do what's best for them, because no one else will, so again I ask why should I care what taxes ppl pay?   

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

—Martin Niemöller

[Clockwork 1,794]

1 hour ago, YorkshireBlue said:

Wars are fought for land and what ever else you said, but in the name or religion, when people are bombing arenas in the name of a god, that's an act of terrorism in the name of religion or how they see the religion, ww2 Hitler went after a certain religion and killed as many as he could, land is a profit of war but not always the reason.

Hitler was not religious, the tribe he advocated to unite the Germans was a racial one or nationalism. I seriously cannot if you are going to cite WW2 as a religious motivated war. 

 

[YorkshireBlue 3,264]

3 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

—Martin Niemöller

No one need speak for me, the system is a cancer that will spit you out when it's done with you, sooner you learn that the better your life will be. People waste fat to much time fighting for a party or a system that couldn't give a fuck about them.

[YorkshireBlue 3,264]

4 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

Hitler was not religious, the tribe he advocated to unite the Germans was a racial one or nationalism. I seriously cannot if you are going to cite WW2 as a religious motivated war. 

 

Jews short for Jewish, it's a religious set of people, how is that not religious, been Jewish isn't a race

Edited June 2, 2024 by YorkshireBlue

[Clockwork 1,794]

54 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

Jews short for Jewish, it's a religious set of people, how is that not religious 

Jews was one of the groups targeted, he also targeted Sinti, Roma, blacks, gays, etc the Nazi also targeted Aryans who were physically and mentally disabled  because they were seen as abnormal and not pure. If you understand Nazism ideology you would understand that it was racially motivated rather than religiously. There is a religious aspect at a minor level.

Jewish can be classified as religion, ethnicity, or race. Because there a lot of Jews who consider themselves jewish, but not practicing Judaism.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

 

Edited June 3, 2024 by Clockwork