Politics & Stuff

[kolovrat 20]

  On 23/11/2020 at 19:14, Vesper said:

I guarantee one way to ensure we do NOT have free choice

allow the religious fundies (of any and all stripes, but especially the 3 Abrahamic religions) to get the whip hand over our societies and governments

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How do you guarantee this?

[Vesper 29,406]

  On 23/11/2020 at 20:21, kolovrat said:

How do you guarantee this?

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lol

look at their agendas, what they want to do, what they say they will do, and the laws they pass

also look at their past actions,, back when they were in charge

and also, look at the nations where they ARE in charge now

but you knew that

[kolovrat 20]

  On 23/11/2020 at 20:27, Vesper said:

lol

look at their agendas, what they want to do, what they say they will do, and the laws they pass

also look at their past actions,, back when they were in charge

and also, look at the nations where they ARE in charge now

but you knew that

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This isn't an answer to my question.  Determination Vs. Fee Will (Choice) isn't a subject of political realm.

[Vesper 29,406]

  On 23/11/2020 at 20:32, kolovrat said:

This isn't an answer to my question.  Determination Vs. Fee Will (Choice) isn't a subject of political realm.

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I was ONLY speaking about freedom of choice in terms of what RWers would try and take away

you now, a sarcastic joke, smdh

I was not getting into a complex philosophical argument about free will versus determinism 

and I am going to pass on that one tonight

maybe tomorrow or some other day

 

[kolovrat 20]

  On 23/11/2020 at 18:03, Fernando said:

What is the opposite of free choice? Is it pre determined? 

Now let me ask you, are you free to answer that question? Are you making a truth claim? 

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Yes, there are two options:

1. Is our life on rails, and everything is predetermined

2. free choice. 

I don't know if I am free or not to answer this question.  How would I know?  May be I was forced?

Truth claim about what?

[Fernando 6,533]

  On 23/11/2020 at 20:41, kolovrat said:

Yes, there are two options:

1. Is our life on rails, and everything is predetermined

2. free choice. 

I don't know if I am free or not to answer this question.  How would I know?  May be I was forced?

Truth claim about what?

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Truth claim = your rising above the bondage of total subjectivity. 

If your totally determined, your pre wire to think the way you do. So you can't make a truth statement. 

The moment you make a truth claim your violating determinism. 

 

[kolovrat 20]

  On 23/11/2020 at 20:53, Fernando said:

Truth claim = your rising above the bondage of total subjectivity. 

If your total determined, your pre wire to think the way you do. So you can't make a truth statement. 

The moment you make a truth claim your violating determinism. 

 

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Sorry, but I am not sure what all this means.

Also, how can you make a 'truth claim' about the future?  You can only guess.

[robsblubot 3,595]

  On 23/11/2020 at 20:41, kolovrat said:

Yes, there are two options:

1. Is our life on rails, and everything is predetermined

2. free choice. 

I don't know if I am free or not to answer this question.  How would I know?  May be I was forced?

Truth claim about what?

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Simplest explanation wins? The chaotic universe we observe? Why wouldn't the sample principles apply to the animals on earth, some of which just happen to have big brains instead of claws?

I think that the "life on rails" argument is the one that needs hard proof, being farther from the simplest explanation.

[Fernando 6,533]

  On 23/11/2020 at 21:01, kolovrat said:

Sorry, but I am not sure what all this means.

Also, how can you make a 'truth claim' about the future?  You can only guess.

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You can ask a question about free will freely in the first place. 

If free will did not exist then your question has no essential meaning because it's just pre determined biological processes causing sound to come out of your vocal cords. 

[kolovrat 20]

  On 23/11/2020 at 21:08, Fernando said:

You can ask a question about free will freely in the first place. 

If free will did not exist then your question had essential no meaning because it's just pre determined biological processes causing sound to come out of your vocal cords. 

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Again I am not sure I understand what you are saying (sorry).

Asking a question about free will doesn't make you free or proves free will. Because you don't know if you were determined to ask this question.

[kolovrat 20]

  On 23/11/2020 at 21:05, robsblubot said:

Simplest explanation wins? The chaotic universe we observe? Why wouldn't the sample principles apply to the animals on earth, some of which just happen to have big brains instead of claws?

I think that the "life on rails" argument is the one that needs hard proof, being farther from the simplest explanation.

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We cannot apply Occam's razor in this case since it deals with empirical reality, and not with ontological question regarding God existence, who in turn may or may not give us free will.

Can you please provide 'hard proof' of free will?  

[robsblubot 3,595]

  On 23/11/2020 at 21:33, kolovrat said:

We cannot apply Occam's razor in this case since it deals with empirical reality, and not with ontological question regarding God existence, who in turn may or may not give us free will.

Can you please provide 'hard proof' of free will?  

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Free will equates to the random chaotic universe, which is what we observe. So, the best "evidence" we've got points to the simplest explanation. Which is that they both exist in the same reality and abide by the same rules.

For me free will is the "default" explanation: the absence of a "designed" principle behind one's decision making. So, again, for me, the "on rails" is the one that needs hard proof.

[Vesper 29,406]

Information Philosopher

probably the best (or at least top 5) philosophy sites on the web

here is the intro part to free will

Freedom

https://www.informationphilosopher.com/freedom/

knock yourselves out

 

A Taxonomy of Free Will Positions

 

 

[Vesper 29,406]

Trump caved

transition is beginning

 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

  On 23/11/2020 at 20:11, kolovrat said:

In order to prove you have a choice you need to have a point in the future that has a concrete outcome, and then change it with your free choice.

Since you don't know the future, you cannot change it.

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Sorry mate but that does not compute with me, your getting all technical. Im not talking about certain outcome or decision making. I have a choice to go to work in 30min or call in sick, my choice to be moody at work or be happy etc. Even if someone fucks it up for me and makes my work harder, its still my choice whether I let it effect me or not.

[Fulham Broadway 17,091]

Leader of the Free World has gone proper mentalist with his latest tweets.

Just because he doesnt drink, doesnt mean he doesnt do few tabs of acid or chows down on some mushrooms in a mescaline sandwich now and again

[Vesper 29,406]

  On 24/11/2020 at 16:20, Fulham Broadway said:

Leader of the Free World has gone proper mentalist with his latest tweets.

Just because he doesnt drink, doesnt mean he doesnt do few tabs of acid or chows down on some mushrooms in a mescaline sandwich now and again

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he is an Adderall junkie

 

[Fulham Broadway 17,091]

Shouldnt mock really  -should be a lesson to us all, be careful who we vote for - and surely there are better candidates than the multi millionaires, who fancy a bit of politics but know fuck all about real lives, they keep chucking up at us