Politics & Stuff

[Atomiswave 6,072]

3 minutes ago, Vesper said:

people invented religion

Most of them yes I agree

[Fulham Broadway 16,390]

2 hours ago, Vesper said:

sceptic land

It's septic - as in septic tank -yank  

I know, ''fuck off you pedant'' 

[Vesper 27,302]

1 minute ago, Fulham Broadway said:

It's septic - as in septic tank -yank  

I know, ''fuck off you pedant'' 

oh snap

misspelt

sorry

(obviously sceptic was not what I meant, as septic land equals yank land)

dyslexia

not pedantic upon your part nor a misuse upon mine

simple error

if you go back and look at my 26,000+ posts you shall find them littered with errors (and even on ones that appear correct they often are edited after the fact, I am horrid, it has been a huge struggle my whole life, especially in academia)

[kolovrat 14]

2 hours ago, Atomiswave said:

Hey its fine by me Vesper, we all have a choice. I respect yours as I do with anyone else. It does not make you more or less of a person. Its all good.

We don't know if we have a free choice.  There is no experiment to prove it.

[Fernando 6,375]

19 minutes ago, Vesper said:

I am NOT going to be taken off course and get into a voluminous 2 week long discourse on fundamental organising of a modern nation state, especially as they already exist as fully fleshed out entities.

You your repeated allusions to a herd mentality are absolutely non-germane as no modern secular, pluralistic, democratic state is organised as such.

You are now just trying to pettifog and veer away from my original simple point.

There is a word for it that all the cool kids use

sealioning

Done here

Those fundamental are important because you are tying disprove God based on 2 concepts of all powerful and and all good. 

So then I state okay let's take away God from the equation then you must answer other things that explain why God does not exist. 

If God does not exist then how we as evolving things got any conscious to decide what is wrong and right? 

So my main point was how you decided that, as far as law and what not? And you state that the modern nations do that. And laws are amended as we progress. Hence we collective decide what is good and wrong? 

[Vesper 27,302]

7 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

It's septic - as in septic tank -yank  

I know, ''fuck off you pedant'' 

fixed for correctness

I really wish I was not so cursed with this, as it is only amplified by my speed of thought and typing

I drove people INSANE in Second Life for years, as text was my main method of communication in game, and I could keep up with people on voice, but often at the price of borderline incoherency, lol

I was almost incapable of logging in on alts and maintaining anonymity, as people who knew me would instantly recognise my typing patterns due to both repetitive mistakes and my vocabulary, which invariably slipped out and betrayed my attempts at stealth

[Fernando 6,375]

4 minutes ago, kolovrat said:

We don't know if we have a free choice.  There is no experiment to prove it.

What is the opposite of free choice? Is it pre determined? 

Now let me ask you, are you free to answer that question? Are you making a truth claim? 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

5 minutes ago, kolovrat said:

We don't know if we have a free choice.  There is no experiment to prove it.

Of course you have a choice. You can choose to be good or bad, choose this and that.

[Vesper 27,302]

2 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Those fundamental are important because you are tying disprove God based on 2 concepts of all powerful and and all good. 

So then I state okay let's take away God from the equation then you must answer other things that explain why God does not exist. 

If God does not exist then how we as evolving things got any conscious to decide what is wrong and right? 

So my main point was how you decided that, as far as law and what not? And you state that the modern nations do that. And laws are amended as we progress. Hence we collective decide what is good and wrong? 

I have already proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the concept of an all good, and all powerful good (as defined by the god beleivers themselves) does not exist

the onus is not upon me anyway

you and your fellow believers are the ones claiming a god or gods exist, yet can offer no definitive proof, and quite often end up at insanity like the Young Earth theories, which is ludicrously pushed about to make sense of a ridiculous interpretation of a man-made book(s)

 

blind faith is fine on an individual, utterly self-contained basis, BUT you never stop there

you always want to use your blind faith to force your beliefs and rules emanating from said faith to rule over others

and you always end up killing (along with a myriad number of other anti-human tortures and mis-deeds) over it

must suck to be so insecure in your own life that you have to project your own internal issues and fears (which is where 'god' came from in the first place, raw human fear of the unknown and the need to explain it) onto others

 

[Fernando 6,375]

8 minutes ago, Vesper said:

I have already proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the concept of an all good, and all powerful good (as defined by the god beleivers themselves) does not exist

the onus is not upon me anyway

you and your fellow believers are the ones claiming a god or gods exist, yet can offer no definitive proof, and quite often end up at insanity like the Young Earth theories, which is ludicrously pushed about to make sense of a ridiculous interpretation of a man-made book(s)

 

blind faith is fine on an individual, utterly self-contained basis, BUT you never stop there

you always want to use your blind faith to force your beliefs and rules emanating from said faith to rule over others

and you always end up killing (along with a myriad number of other anti-human tortures and mis-deeds) over it

must suck to be so insecure in your own life that you have to project your own internal issues and fears (which is where 'god' came from in the first place, raw human fear of the unknown and the need to explain it) onto others

 

You did not prove anything. 

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Thence whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

1. I'm not arguing for omnipotent, i'm arguing that only using that 1 rule then yes he is not omnipotent. But if you use other stuff god is love, god is all knowing, god is everlasting etc etc then you got to take each side without creating a contradiction. 

2. You can argue that not willing makes he seem malevolent but we are stuck in this side of eternity that we can't see past all the angles. In nature there's some animals that must suffer in order to help develop to fly and fend for themselves. If they where to get helped they would be weak. We don't know enough to come to that conclusion

3 Whence cometh evil? I answer that but you don't want to accept, it came from Lucifer that rebelled against god. 

4. And last neither able nor willing, I think my point 2 answer that. 

[robsblubot 3,212]

there is no such thing as evil.

Whichever definition of evil one may have, it would've been entirely different decades and centuries ago - by the same religion too!

Don't even have to go that far back in history: burning "witches" at the stake took place pretty recently in our history.

good read "Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind" by Yuval Noah Harari (and it's free too as you can download the PDF from edu sites).

[Vesper 27,302]

4 minutes ago, Fernando said:

You did not prove anything. 

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Thence whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

1. I'm not arguing for omnipotent, i'm arguing that only using that 1 rule then yes he is not omnipotent. But if you use other stuff god is love, god is all knowing, god is everlasting etc etc then you got to take each side without creating a contradiction. 

2. You can argue that not willing makes he seem malevolent but we are stuck in this side of eternity that we can't see past all the angles. In nature there's some animals that must suffer in order to help develop to fly and fend for themselves. If they where to get helped they would be weak. We don't know enough to come to that conclusion

3 Whence cometh evil? I answer that but you don't want to accept, it came from Lucifer that rebelled against god. 

4. And last neither able nor willing, I think my point 2 answer that. 

 

you are delusional m8

literally

you are talking about fairy tales (battles with Satan, lolol, what the fuckery!)

and not only think they are real

but that you and your ilk can make their so-called rules (coming from your delusional beliefs) manifest and put into motion processes that end up with my death (literally, as religious fanaticism unchecked ALWAYS ends up at extreme outcomes)

what's next, a re-birth of the flat-earth concept?

how about modern modern medicine? god's love not good enough to heal?

this is all rat-in-a-tin-shithouse level madness

 

pro tip

the Dark Ages are not coming back unless your side wins

and there are more of us (who will violently, if need be, resist theocracy) in the Western world than there are of you

you want theocracy, go somewhere else and stop trying to shove your god delusions down our throats and up and about our privy parts

and by somewhere else, by which I mean get the fuck out of our western, democratic, pluralistic, tolerant nations, as you clearly have ill-intent for the populations who dwell here

seriously, GTFO

if you do not want to leave, then by all means continue on in private with your faith, BUT leave it fucking PRIVATE, it has no place in the public political sphere when it endeavours to force others to submit to your arbitrary and anti-humanist ways, we are past that point here and t is not coming back, bar a cataclysmic collapse of most all of society as it is presently ordered

 

religious-based hate and power dominance has no place in the modern world

 

 

[Vesper 27,302]

16 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

there is no such thing as evil.

Whichever definition of evil one may have, it would've been entirely differently decades and centuries ago - by the same religion too!

Don't even have to go that far back in history: burning "witches" at the stake took place pretty recently in our history.

good read "Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind" by Yuval Noah Harari (and it's free too as you can download the PDF from edu sites).

not even back that far

google burning witches in today's Africa

disturbing as FUCK

and all done in baby jeebus' name

it is barbarous shit

and do not let the western fundie Christians trick you when they say 'oh that is just confused people' or whatever dross they use to muddy the waters

the end result of the western, so-called advanced fundie Christians' desires is the SAME thing, just probably not burning alive, but hanging 'em high or some more 'civilised' means of killing us off (us being anyone who strays afoul of their insane and arbitrary rules) 

they love saying

the wages of sin is death (and THEY determine what is 'sin')

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Romans 6:23 

 

lol at a 'loving god'

believe in me OR DIE and suffer FOREVER

it is fucking murderous lunacy

[Vesper 27,302]

1 hour ago, kolovrat said:

We don't know if we have a free choice.  There is no experiment to prove it.

I guarantee one way to ensure we do NOT have free choice

allow the religious fundies (of any and all stripes, but especially the 3 Abrahamic religions) to get the whip hand over our societies and governments

[Vesper 27,302]

[Fernando 6,375]

44 minutes ago, Vesper said:

 

you are delusional m8

literally

you are talking about fairy tales (battles with Satan, lolol, what the fuckery!)

and not only think they are real

but that you and your ilk can make their so-called rules (coming from your delusional beliefs) manifest and put into motion processes that end up with my death (literally, as religious fanaticism unchecked ALWAYS ends up at extreme outcomes)

what's next, a re-birth of the flat-earth concept?

how about modern modern medicine? god's love not good enough to heal?

this is all rat-in-a-tin-shithouse level madness

 

pro tip

the Dark Ages are not coming back unless your side wins

and there are more of us (who will violently, if need be, resist theocracy) in the Western world than there are of you

you want theocracy, go somewhere else and stop trying to shove your god delusions down our throats and up and about our privy parts

and by somewhere else, by which I mean get the fuck out of our western, democratic, pluralistic, tolerant nations, as you clearly have ill-intent for the populations who dwell here

seriously, GTFO

if you do not want to leave, then by all means continue on in private with your faith, BUT leave it fucking PRIVATE, it has no place in the public political sphere when it endeavours to force others to submit to your arbitrary and anti-humanist ways, we are past that point here and t is not coming back, bar a cataclysmic collapse of most all of society as it is presently ordered

 

religious-based hate and power dominance has no place in the modern world

 

 

Well I will pray for you. 

And no I don't believe in killing people or forcing you to change. It should never be about that because then it wouldn't be love, but a violation. 

Take care and have a good day. 

[kolovrat 14]

2 hours ago, Atomiswave said:

Of course you have a choice. You can choose to be good or bad, choose this and that.

In order to prove you have a choice you need to have a point in the future that has a concrete outcome, and then change it with your free choice.

Since you don't know the future, you cannot change it.

[Vesper 27,302]

31 minutes ago, Fernando said:

And no I don't believe in killing people or forcing you to change.

you may not, but the power seekers in your religion do

and you are a forced-birther

so not entirely without some very problematic stances

what kicked thsi all off (I think was with you, maybe not) long ago

was that you (or someone) said you supported the monster Trump for one reason

abortion

it is crazy to wish death (of democracy, of the rule of law, of truth itself, and literally of people, as evidenced by his death cult handling of COVID-19 and other things) upon the most powerful nation on the planet (and perhaps the world if he allowed WWIII to start) all over one issue, and an issue that is FAR from cut and dried as a basic question

stand back and look at the raw HATE that comes from the MAGAt end of things, the utter shitbaggery of it all

Biden is a neoliberal hack, he is about as 'socialist' as Nick 'on my knees for Cameron' Clegg

ZERO American elected (at federal level) Democrats are socialists, that is insane RW gaslighting, even the furthest left of them would be mildly centre left in any EU nation

actual European socialist and communist parties would laugh in your face if you called the US Democratic Party socialist

Trump is far more of a socialist

oligarchic socialism

most losses at the top of the power pyramid all socialised, but most all profits at the top kept private

 

 

Trump supporter complains shutdown is 'not hurting the people he needs to be hurting'

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/424263-trump-supporter-complains-shutdown-is-not-hurting-the-people-he

A prison employee in Florida who voted for President Trump argued that Trump is to blame for the current government shutdown. 

“I voted for him, and he’s the one who’s doing this,” Crystal Minton told The New York Times in an article published Monday. “I thought he was going to do good things. He’s not hurting the people he needs to be hurting.”