Politics & Stuff

[Amblève. 4,995]

4 hours ago, Spike said:

I have yet to read a debate to convince me on pro-choice. I cannot within myself see a point that after a sperm meets and egg that the fetus is not human. It's is not a fully developed human but nonetheless, it can only be seen as the genesis of humanity. I cannot morally justify to myself that killing that fetus at any point is okay, unless of very specific circumstances. How can we as humans arbitrarily draw a line that defines human life? Consciousness? What of the man that is in a coma? Is a born infant truly aware of itself? "My body, my choice"? Is it actually your body, or another human's simply inside your own? I can understand the rationale behind many women's choices to kill the fetus but I cannot abide by someone that does such an action out of convenience.

There was a comment on Reddit similar to yours a few weeks ago. You might be interested in checking out one of the responses.

[positivefootball 195]

12 hours ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

Looking at Canada right now. Express entry could have me settled there as a permanent resident in a few months given my experience and skills.

Why are you moving to a country built by racist white men like Canada? Why not move to countries built by minorities such as Mexico? Thats really racist of you.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,919]

17 minutes ago, positivefootball said:

Why are you moving to a country built by racist white men like Canada? Why not move to countries built by minorities such as Mexico? Thats really racist of you.

Actually mexico was built by racist white men too. Difference between Mexico and Canada is The British left most of the screwing of the natives to outside of the bedroom, while the spanish were much more keen to keep it in the bedroom

[Spike 12,049]

31 minutes ago, Amblève. said:

There was a comment on Reddit similar to yours a few weeks ago. You might be interested in checking out one of the responses.

Interesting but for me a kidney transplant and an abortion is a false equivalency. One is the process of extending a life (through transplant) and the other is the creation of life (through birth). One is death to inactivity, while the other is death due to activity. 

I also disagree with the statement 'life begins at viability outside of the womb'. If that were the case then disable peopled that cannot live without care-takers should be allowed to killed by their caretakers. This for me, would also have to be applicable to any living person that cannot live without the support of another. Besides you wouldn't terminate a comatose patient you knew would awaken within a few months, so why terminate a child?

I have also never read of a medical emergency that uses abortion. I have only read about induced labour and c-sections.

Most abortions, from what I know (in the rich, western world) are because they are an inconvenience to the parents. I've nothing against the woman that terminates a fetus' life because she was raped or molested, or even if the child has severe handicaps that would prevent a 'normal' life. For instance, I'd hate to see a child with Down's Syndrome born to older parents. The parents pass away during the early life of the child and the child has to become someone's else burden for life.

[Spike 12,049]

1 hour ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

Breaks my heart seeing Ernie like that.

 

He isnt talking about White Mexicans though honestly.

 

He wouldn't bat an eye at a  Canelo Alvarez looking person. When he talks about Mexicans bringing trouble the image he is painting is very clear. They are indigenous, they are short, they are brown. That is the national image of the mexican immigrant in America because that is the who the average person is coming in contact with. They are our janitors, our farm workers, our maids, and in some cases our criminals.

 

Same way calling somebody Australian over here would give an image of a person of European descent, and not one that looks like a subsaharan African even though that is the indigenous Australian. Trump and his dad were part of one of the largest(if not the largest) housing discrimination suits in American history because in new york of all places he wouldnt rent out apartments to African Americans. If Trump isnt a racist he sure does a fantastic job of acting like one.

Or you know, illegal immigrants. That discrimination lawsuit lost, no admission of guilt. 

Indigenous Australians look nothing like sub-saharan Africans, save skin colour.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,919]

29 minutes ago, Spike said:

Or you know, illegal immigrants. That discrimination lawsuit lost, no admission of guilt. 

Indigenous Australians look nothing like sub-saharan Africans, save skin colour.

The case was settled, not failed. In large part thanks to the justice department viewing such settlements as a win due to the legal justice system being a way in which the government would seek to make significant cash grabs. His counter suit was dismissed. 

 

The Illegal Immigrant thing is a dogwhistle. When you say that there is a specific image that comes in a person head. The same way a specific image comes into a persons head when he calls a criminal a "Bad Hombre", or even on Hillary's side when she called young criminals "Super predators". Its the speech of bigots.

 

 

On the indigenous front I must admit I've seen Aboriginal australians that look subsaharan.

 

Take this Aboriginal child:

 

Could easily have passed for the Burkinabe kids we were building wells for when I was with EWB in college. Not just in skin color, but in nose shape and cheek bones. I do know that aboriginal(and even subsaharan) constitute wide genetic diversity, but to say there is no similarity in certain groups would be a strange statement to make definitively.

[Spike 12,049]

9 minutes ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

The case was settled, not failed. In large part thanks to the justice department viewing such settlements as a win due to the legal justice system being a way in which the government would seek to make significant cash grabs. His counter suit was dismissed. 

 

The Illegal Immigrant thing is a dogwhistle. When you say that there is a specific image that comes in a person head. The same way a specific image comes into a persons head when he calls a criminal a "Bad Hombre", or even on Hillary's side when she called young criminals "Super predators". Its the speech of bigots.

 

 

On the indigenous front I must admit I've seen Aboriginal australians that look subsaharan.

 

Take this Aboriginal child:

 

 

Could easily have passed for the Burkinabe kids we were building wells for when I was with EWB in college. Not just in skin color, but in nose shape and cheek bones. I do know that aboriginal(and even subsaharan) constitute wide genetic diversity, but to say there is no similarity in certain groups would be a strange statement to make definitively.

Innocent until proven guilty, I'm afraid. This is America and that is a fact.

It doesn't come to my head, nor anyone that is well-informed. Most illegals fly into the country on visas.

Well, from my experience I'd wager I've seen Aboriginals than you and the comparison isn't there in my eyes. I could pick an Aboriginal out.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,919]

5 minutes ago, Spike said:

Innocent until proven guilty, I'm afraid. This is America and that is a fact.

It doesn't come to my head, nor anyone that is well-informed. Most illegals fly into the country on visas.

Well, from my experience I'd wager I've seen Aboriginals than you and the comparison isn't there in my eyes. I could pick an Aboriginal out.

Why settle at all then if thats the case? If he knew he was going to be not guilty, surely you would fight that accusation tooth and nail?

It doesnt come to your head because you yourself have moved countries, which would put you probably in the top 10-20% of the population given the amount of effort it takes to immigrate. When he throws out the bad hombre line he isnt aiming that for you. He is aiming it for the guy in the middle of the country, probably left his town 3 times in all his life, and is mad as hell because his job will never come back. He is creating a racial scapegoat for them. That is why the wall was such a staple of his campaign, and not a large tarp over the tarmac runway at Hartsfield-Jackson or Kennedy airport.

[Spike 12,049]

34 minutes ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

Why settle at all then if thats the case? If he knew he was going to be not guilty, surely you would fight that accusation tooth and nail?

It doesnt come to your head because you yourself have moved countries, which would put you probably in the top 10-20% of the population given the amount of effort it takes to immigrate. When he throws out the bad hombre line he isnt aiming that for you. He is aiming it for the guy in the middle of the country, probably left his town 3 times in all his life, and is mad as hell because his job will never come back. He is creating a racial scapegoat for them. That is why the wall was such a staple of his campaign, and not a large tarp over the tarmac runway at Hartsfield-Jackson or Kennedy airport.

It had already been several years hadn't it? I can speak for the man but sometime it's better and easier to bury the hatchet. Besides, it speaks a lot more about the DOJ than Trump. I'm not trying to justify it all, just trying to look at all perspectives.

At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself, is it an honest sentiment of racism? or just a manipulative political tool? 

Also you criticise middle-American that has probably left his home town three times in their lives but you have to understand that cocktail sipping New Yorkers, Californians and other urbanites know literally nothing about America outside of their cities. It goes both ways, my friend.

[Parky 739]

Having time to think about the result I feel the Clinton camp, DNC and MSM created the false sense of a guaranteed victory to turn the popular vote Hilary's way and also try discourage Trump supporters to go out and vote. But this may have left the Democrats supporters with little motivation to go out and wait two hours in line to vote for Hillary when an easy victory was on the cards. 

On the other hand Trump supporters were in the mindset 'Shit this is our last chance to vote against the Washington establishment & elite before it's too late'. So many of these folks went out to vote for the first time in 20 years. So the rigged system actually shot itself in the foot trying to create the 'perfect' result for Hillary.

As an outsider I think the American political system and democracy is deeply flawed. It needs major reform from the ground up. Bernie was the country's best chance at reform but the DNC establishment unfairly destroyed any chance of that early on. Ironically if Bernie did get the greenlight by the DNC then he would have got more Democrats out to vote in the crucial areas to win this election.

These anti Trump protesters should actually be directing their anger towards the corrupt DNC establishment. Im sure a large percentage of these protesters were all Bernie supporters anyway and may not bothered to go out to vote for Hillary disillusioned on the election early on.

So the DNC and the establishment have only themselves to blame and looks like they payed for this mess with a GOP controlled House, Senate and Trump presidency. Sometimes you only realise how foolishly and unfairly you played the game when you totally get fucked at the end as a result.

 

[CHOULO19 24,332]

17 hours ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

This country is unsalvageable sadly.

 

I will be leaving by the end of next year.

Could have been 'salvaged' had the mainstream not insisted that Sanders was "unelectable" and the DNC not worked to sabotage him...

[CHOULO19 24,332]

9 hours ago, Spike said:

In the last year, I feel that I've grown a lot in maturity when it comes to politics. I love reading viewpoints on both sides of the coin. I try to be the most neutral and unbiased man I can, so I can have the most learned and knowledgeable view point. I have several conservative journals that I frequent (Canadian Rebel Media, [Dave] Rubin Report, and American Daily Wire), but I struggle with finding an news source on the left that isn't blatantly biased.  Of course the three I listed have their biases but everything does and compared to journals like Huffington Post, Fox News, MSNBC, nearly everything Australian, CNN, Breitbart, InfoWars etc; they are relatively unbiased. Does anyone have suggestions, most journals are just echo-chambers that only serve their own agenda. It is tiring being told that as an immigrant I should fear Trump, but also as a white man I should be ashamed of myself. I don't want to be told what to believe, I want to be presented with facts to make my own opinion. 

If we have to use labels, personally, just a few years ago I would describe myself a hard-leftie. Welfare, pro-choice, LGBT rights, feminism, the whole nine yards before it became the 'cool thing to be'. Upon reflection I have discovered many things about myself, maybe that'll change in the future. For now, I consider myself a libertarian somewhat, with social leanings that go both right and left. Economically I feel I am more of a righty.

I have yet to read a debate to convince me on pro-choice. I cannot within myself see a point that after a sperm meets and egg that the fetus is not human. It's is not a fully developed human but nonetheless, it can only be seen as the genesis of humanity. I cannot morally justify to myself that killing that fetus at any point is okay, unless of very specific circumstances. How can we as humans arbitrarily draw a line that defines human life? Consciousness? What of the man that is in a coma? Is a born infant truly aware of itself? "My body, my choice"? Is it actually your body, or another human's simply inside your own? I can understand the rationale behind many women's choices to kill the fetus but I cannot abide by someone that does such an action out of convenience.

Secular Talk on YouTube is quite good. DemocracyNow is the best. As for left news sites the Intercept is by far the best. Alternet can be good too.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,919]

8 hours ago, Spike said:

It had already been several years hadn't it? I can speak for the man but sometime it's better and easier to bury the hatchet. Besides, it speaks a lot more about the DOJ than Trump. I'm not trying to justify it all, just trying to look at all perspectives.

At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself, is it an honest sentiment of racism? or just a manipulative political tool? 

Also you criticise middle-American that has probably left his home town three times in their lives but you have to understand that cocktail sipping New Yorkers, Californians and other urbanites know literally nothing about America outside of their cities. It goes both ways, my friend.

I'd believe it was just a political tool if it was a recent. You don't get sued for discrimination 40 years ago, come out this campaign saying racist dog whistles, and not have racist ideas in my head.

 

You are right though people in the cities obviously have a clouded idea about what America wants, or is. This clearly is the case since we all thought Hillary was a shoe-in to win.

 

7 hours ago, CHOULO19 said:

Could have been 'salvaged' had the mainstream not insisted that Sanders was "unelectable" and the DNC not worked to sabotage him...

Fair enough the DNC should have picked someone else over Hillary.

 

Even if Sanders was picked though we still had nearly 60 million people in this country who was ok with Trump, and all he represents, representing them on the national stage. That isnt the America I thought I was in.

[iseah100 5,612]

20 hours ago, kmk108 said:

The sad irony in all of this is that, for how pissed off people are about the two choices for presidency, the republican voters and democrat voters are the ones that picked these two. It's not like the parties picked the candidates. People don't want to do their own work and research candidates. They want to watch the news and make their decisions based on the stories they run.

Sad thing is because of closed primaries that in some places you need to be registered months in advance for, only 9% of the American population elected these two to be the nominees. For example, in New York they had closed primaries and you had to be registered like 6 months in advance. 6 months before the NY primary Bernie hadn't amassed his large following yet. The voting system from the primaries and election needs to be revamped. There is a reason Bernie destroyed Hillary when states had caucuses and open voting. 

19 hours ago, Spike said:

Mexican isn't a race or ethnicity, it is a nationality. If a colony like Mexico has a blanket 'race' then it applies to America, Australia, Canada, South Africa, New Zealand, etc. I can safely say that I'm a national Australian, but definitely not an Indigenous Australian. Isn't it disrespectful towards the actual Indigenous peoples of Mexico and those with European and other South-American ancestry just to lump them into a 'pile'?   Trump is not racist, he is jingoist, he doesn't care about race but nationality. 

I find the ignorance of people that obfuscate nationality and race quite annoying. 

@iseah100 What do you think about this assessment? 

I hate this. If someone hates Mexicans what are they? They are racist. If someone hates blacks, Asians, Italians, etc they are racist. People have a preconceived notion of what Mexicans look like. If you ask me what I am, I'm not gonna say Caucasian or something, I'm going to say Mexican-American. But idk man, that's issue is shady. 

As for your pro-choice comments, I can respect that but I mean, if a girl is 15 and has sex I don't think she should have to deal with a stupid decision she made when she was a kid her whole life. Shit happens, hormones kick in and chances are that kid will either have to be taken care of by her parents, which is an unfair burden or will have a shitty life because that girl will obviously not have the financial ability to provide it with good care. The biggest argument I have is that most people who are pro-life are actually pro-birth. Once that baby is born they figure it's not their problem. I also think if a woman wants to have sex, birth control is not full proof, so she has to accept she may have a kid if she wants to have sex? That's not fair imo. 

12 hours ago, CHOULO19 said:

Could have been 'salvaged' had the mainstream not insisted that Sanders was "unelectable" and the DNC not worked to sabotage him...

But it was Hillary's "turn" she lost to a black guy with a Muslim sounding name ffs, what were they thinking? 

[kmk108 1,186]

26 minutes ago, iseah100 said:

Sad thing is because of closed primaries that in some places you need to be registered months in advance for, only 9% of the American population elected these two to be the nominees. For example, in New York they had closed primaries and you had to be registered like 6 months in advance. 6 months before the NY primary Bernie hadn't amassed his large following yet. The voting system from the primaries and election needs to be revamped. There is a reason Bernie destroyed Hillary when states had caucuses and open voting. 

I get why there are closed primaries. You don't want Republicans voting for an unpopular Democrat, but I'm personally against the entire two-party system. It favors two parties because they're the only ones with the political and financial power. It's the main reason why there's such a division. To make a difference, you have to be either Republican or Democrat, which leads to the liberal/conservative distinction, which both have their connotations that are thrown around by the opposition. You're forcing something that is not black and white to be black and white.

Instead, I would like to see proportional representation that would divide congressional seats based on the percentage of votes a party receives. It would allow other parties to have at least some representation in government. A lot of Americans don't identify as Republican or Democrat, but they're forced to because those are the only two that are going to have enough traction to win in a winner-take-all election. It would also allow candidates to be more honest about their position on issues, because they're not having to pander to one side of the spectrum. Bernie could have run as a Socialist instead of getting shafted by the DNC because Hillary seemed like the safer choice.

[Spike 12,049]

6 hours ago, iseah100 said:

 

I hate this. If someone hates Mexicans what are they? They are racist. If someone hates blacks, Asians, Italians, etc they are racist. People have a preconceived notion of what Mexicans look like. If you ask me what I am, I'm not gonna say Caucasian or something, I'm going to say Mexican-American. But idk man, that's issue is shady. 

As for your pro-choice comments, I can respect that but I mean, if a girl is 15 and has sex I don't think she should have to deal with a stupid decision she made when she was a kid her whole life. Shit happens, hormones kick in and chances are that kid will either have to be taken care of by her parents, which is an unfair burden or will have a shitty life because that girl will obviously not have the financial ability to provide it with good care. The biggest argument I have is that most people who are pro-life are actually pro-birth. Once that baby is born they figure it's not their problem. I also think if a woman wants to have sex, birth control is not full proof, so she has to accept she may have a kid if she wants to have sex? That's not fair imo. 

But it was Hillary's "turn" she lost to a black guy with a Muslim sounding name ffs, what were they thinking? 

That's a fair statement and I could never tell you how to feel about it. You must understand though, coming from Australia there has been a distinct movement to give Indigenous Australian Peoples their autonomy and self-realisation. They've fought tooth and nail to have their culture and heritage recongnised and respected, to not acknowledge them and lump them into the rest of Australians as a 'blanket-race' would be disrespectful. Of course, they are Australians nationals like myself but their heritage as the Indigenous Peoples of Australia comes first. So you I hope you can understand my thinking on this subject, I'm not sure about how Indigenous Mexicans feel or how they have been treated historically.

It is the same for Blacks, Asians and Italians. Their are many different Black peoples across the world and I'm sure many like to be recognised as their people. Maybe not in America where the heritage trails have run thin to the point of ambiguity but I'm sure that a Nigerian man and a South-African man would like to be recognised as a different people with different heritage, culture and customs. Same for Asians, my missus is Filipino-American, but she is vastly different culturally to Koreans, Turks, Israelites, Indians and near every other nation in Asia. Personally I just feel the huge blanket-terms for races being applied to just one race is a little racist in itself. Then again racial classification is such a shady subject as you say, in some cases it is a sense of independance and price, and others it is just abuse. 

I mean people assume that Australians are tanned English people but their are many people living in Australia these days. Greeks, Croats, Lebanese, Indigenous, Anglo, Celtic, Dutch, French, Chinese, Japanese, Filipino, Micronesian, etc. 

[CHOULO19 24,332]

18 hours ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

Even if Sanders was picked though we still had nearly 60 million people in this country who was ok with Trump, and all he represents, representing them on the national stage. That isnt the America I thought I was in.

I don't think it's fair at all to project the candidates moralities onto their voters. I think it silly to say that all those who voted Trump are okay with his racism misogyny and xenophobia just as it would be absurd to claim that everyone who voted Clinton is okay with endless wars to maintain the empire, unregulated banks and corporations and corruption (which no body is claiming).

The problem with 'democracy' in the US is that most don't vote FOR a candidate but AGAINST another because everyone keeps shoving the broken two-party system down their throats and telling them to vote for the lesser of two evils...then you get president Trump!

That's not to say that no bigots voted for Trump. Some are clearly and even proudly racist/homophobic...etc.But most are not.

But even if we assume that all those who voted Trump are 'deplorables', now what? The answer is to not even challenge them? To let them win and flee? And I know that you comment about moving to Canada comes from your frustration and is probably not a sincere desire, but I'm talking about fleeing from the political debate. Because that is what liberals have been doing for some time.

Shutting someone down by calling them racist/sexist/fascist...etc. is not winning the debate, it's basically conceding it. Getting offended and outraged by an idea does not destroy it. You need to debate it. Even if they are racist, even if they are misogynists; debate them, logically call out their bullshit, don't let their bigotry go unchallenged.

It shouldn't be hard. We're the left. We're supposed to have the rational upper hand. But for some reason we think we've already won the culture debate and have stopped using logic and debating and instead replaced that with hurling insults and calling everyone on the right evil as if that has even persuaded anyone to change their opinions.

The democratic party needs to quit this condescending holier than thou attitude and all the shaming and outrage. They need to stop blaming everyone else for their continued failure and start talking to the 60 million people and trying to understand why they voted for an obviously bigoted candidate like Trump over their Clinton.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Noam Chomsky SIX years ago:

“The United States is extremely lucky that no honest, charismatic figure has arisen...If somebody comes along who is charismatic and honest this country is in real trouble because of the frustration, disillusionment, the justified anger and the absence of any coherent response. What are people supposed to think if someone says ‘I have got an answer, we have an enemy’? There it was the Jews. Here it will be the illegal immigrants and the blacks. We will be told that white males are a persecuted minority...If the polls are accurate it is not the Republicans but the right-wing Republicans, the crazed Republicans, who will sweep the next election...The mood of the country is frightening. The level of anger, frustration and hatred of institutions is not organized in a constructive way. It is going off into self-destructive fantasies.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/donald-trump-president-wins-election-noam-chomsky-prediction-a7406831.html

 

The man has been basically right about almost everything for more than 60 years. Probably why you never see anything he says ever given any attention or weight in the mainstream.