Politics & Stuff

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Dunno about other people, but this scares the shit out of me:

[Fernando 6,533]

I started to go to church last year and being studying bible prophecy. It's very interesting and seeing how they are coming to past with current events.

There's some stuff that I'm waiting for in the coming years. According to one prophecy it says that Damascus will be destroyed, a city laid in ruins.

I was pondering how this would happen till I saw that ISIS is heading for that capital.

It might well be that ISIS take over and an allied nation or Israel destroy them, while at the same time destroying the capital.

So one scenario there.

Next would be the Gog and Magog war. According to this prophecy it says that this would happen after Israel has finished a small war....that small war could be against ISIS in Damascus or taking out Iran nuclear weapons.

But immediately following that is the Gog and Magog war which some interpreters says is Russia and other Muslim nations attacking Israel.

I guess that would make sense since Russia is not an ally of USA or Israel and many Muslim nations hate Israel.

So with all the things going on the middle east and world event, how likely this scenario are to happen in our lifetime? Likely. And if they do then it will validate the bible as inspired since such prophecy was written thousands of years ago.

Let's wait and see what happens.

[Stingray 9,441]

  On 28/05/2015 at 11:15, Fernando said:

I started to go to church last year and being studying bible prophecy. It's very interesting and seeing how they are coming to past with current events.

There's some stuff that I'm waiting for in the coming years. According to one prophecy it says that Damascus will be destroyed, a city laid in ruins.

I was pondering how this would happen till I saw that ISIS is heading for that capital.

It might well be that ISIS take over and an allied nation or Israel destroy them, while at the same time destroying the capital.

So one scenario there.

Next would be the Gog and Magog war. According to this prophecy it says that this would happen after Israel has finished a small war....that small war could be against ISIS in Damascus or taking out Iran nuclear weapons.

But immediately following that is the Gog and Magog war which some interpreters says is Russia and other Muslim nations attacking Israel.

I guess that would make sense since Russia is not an ally of USA or Israel and many Muslim nations hate Israel.

So with all the things going on the middle east and world event, how likely this scenario are to happen in our lifetime? Likely. And if they do then it will validate the bible as inspired since such prophecy was written thousands of years ago.

Let's wait and see what happens.

Congrats on dogma 101.

[Fernando 6,533]

  On 28/05/2015 at 16:53, Stingray said:

Congrats on dogma 101.

Hey it's prophecy and many bible prophecy has been fulfilled.

Israel coming back as a nation was prophecy thousands of years ago.

Even if you are skeptical about that then at least go back as 1600 when the King James Bible came out. There was no Israel back then and in the bible it predicted how the Jews would come back and formed Israel.

It also predicts how they will build their temple in Jerusalem which at the moment doesn't exist. So that's a future prophecy to be fulfilled.

What book out there can give prophecy and fulfilled exactly as it has been decreed?

The next events are those that I mention as well the rapture of the church. Then the coming world leader coming on the scene and making a 7 year peace treaty with Israel.

[Stingray 9,441]

  On 28/05/2015 at 18:15, Fernando said:

Hey it's prophecy and many bible prophecy has been fulfilled.

Israel coming back as a nation was prophecy thousands of years ago.

Even if you are skeptical about that then at least go back as 1600 when the King James Bible came out. There was no Israel back then and in the bible it predicted how the Jews would come back and formed Israel.

It also predicts how they will build their temple in Jerusalem which at the moment doesn't exist. So that's a future prophecy to be fulfilled.

What book out there can give prophecy and fulfilled exactly as it has been decreed?

The next events are those that I mention as well the rapture of the church. Then the coming world leader coming on the scene and making a 7 year peace treaty with Israel.

Well, you call it profecy ... Disregarding it is a cultural belief. How many religious stories are there in the world. If there are more than 2500 deities in the world, how is yours special? What the others? Shouldn't there be a way of discerning what can be true or not?

I can only reply quoting Ricky Gervais about that line of deductional reasoning:

'It annoys me that the burden of proof is on us. It should be: 'You came up with the idea. Why do you believe it?' I could tell you I've got superpowers. But I can't go up to people saying 'Prove I can't fly.' They'd go: 'What do you mean 'Prove you can't fly'? Prove you can!"

[Fernando 6,533]

  On 28/05/2015 at 18:38, Stingray said:

Well, you call it profecy ... Disregarding it is a cultural belief. How many religious stories are there in the world. If there are more than 2500 deities in the world, how is yours special? What the others? Shouldn't there be a way of discerning what can be true or not?

I can only reply quoting Ricky Gervais about that line of deductional reasoning:

'It annoys me that the burden of proof is on us. It should be: 'You came up with the idea. Why do you believe it?' I could tell you I've got superpowers. But I can't go up to people saying 'Prove I can't fly.' They'd go: 'What do you mean 'Prove you can't fly'? Prove you can!"

Well there's a lot of religions on the world but none gives prophecy like the bible.

And not just give it but be accurate.

If you have a religion over thousands of years that gives prophecy and have come to past, then please do share so we can see for ourselves.

[Stingray 9,441]

  On 28/05/2015 at 18:59, Fernando said:

Well there's a lot of religions on the world but none gives prophecy like the bible.

And not just give it but be accurate.

If you have a religion over thousands of years that gives prophecy and have come to past, then please do share so we can see for ourselves.

Lol. Take Islam (and i can also go into non monotheistic prophecies if you want, eg Mazdeism which predates Christianity and might even be its origin):

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/347/

Cheers mate

[Spike 12,049]

I refuse to believe in any interpretation any human has given for 'god' or 'gods'. Whether or not there is an entity or entities that created life and existence remains to be seen but I struggle to believe that any human would be able to comprehend such a being. I do not believe in any of the Abrahamic god(s) nor do I believe in Shinto, Quezacotl and everything in between.

Do I believe in any earthly religions? No.

Do I believe there could be a higher entity? Yes, very much so.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 29/05/2015 at 07:09, Spike Spiegel said:

I refuse to believe in any interpretation any human has given for 'god' or 'gods'. Whether or not there is an entity or entities that created life and existence remains to be seen but I struggle to believe that any human would be able to comprehend such a being. I do not believe in any of the Abrahamic god(s) nor do I believe in Shinto, Quezacotl and everything in between.

Do I believe in any earthly religions? No.

Do I believe there could be a higher entity? Yes, very much so.

Yeah, but my pretend god is more powerful than yours!

[Stingray 9,441]

  On 29/05/2015 at 07:12, CHOULO19 said:

Yeah, but my pretend god is more powerful than yours!

Bollocks, yours is creatively inferior to mine, so I win!

http://www.venganza.org

[Spike 12,049]

  On 29/05/2015 at 07:12, CHOULO19 said:

Yeah, but my pretend god is more powerful than yours!

My friend Buddai is neither a god nor powerful. But he is wise and that is almost tangible. Almost as tangible as hit titties and belly.

[Fernando 6,533]

  On 29/05/2015 at 06:50, Stingray said:

Lol. Take Islam (and i can also go into non monotheistic prophecies if you want, eg Mazdeism which predates Christianity and might even be its origin):

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/347/

Cheers mate

Those are not real prophecies men.

I will tell you only one from all those stand out....But having one Prophecy is nice, yet you got to be consistent men. Can't say 50 Prophecy and all but one be right.

In fact here's a great article talking about those "Muslim Prophecy" http://worldview3.50webs.com/quranvbible.html

Okay now show me something more older predating the Bible.

By the way Christianity came from jews. New testament is the compliment to old testament wich is the Torah and the Prophets.

[Stingray 9,441]

  On 29/05/2015 at 11:39, Fernando said:

Those are not real prophecies men.

I will tell you only one from all those stand out....But having one Prophecy is nice, yet you got to be consistent men. Can't say 50 Prophecy and all but one be right.

In fact here's a great article talking about those "Muslim Prophecy" http://worldview3.50webs.com/quranvbible.html

Okay now show me something more older predating the Bible.

By the way Christianity came from jews. New testament is the compliment to old testament wich is the Torah and the Prophets.

No you tell me about the 50 prophecies that came out. The burden of proof is yours, not mine. Also, the roots of Christianity is much, much older. Check Zoroastrism for example

[Fernando 6,533]

  On 29/05/2015 at 13:04, Stingray said:

No you tell me about the 50 prophecies that came out. The burden of proof is yours, not mine. Also, the roots of Christianity is much, much older. Check Zoroastrism for example

What 50? I was saying in general.

Say someone gives you 50 prophecy but only one is accurate and all the other false it doesn't mean much.

Furthermore the Bible has hundreds of Bible prophecy. Many from Old Testament that was fulfilled old testament, many from Old testament that was fulfilled in New testament and recently others being fulfilled with Israel.

Would you be seriously interested in listening to these prophecies?

Because I can take my time and write them out. It will be a long one, so I will only do it if you will consider it.

Other then that the roots of Christianity is much older? What you talking about. Christianity emerged 50 days after Jesus resurrection at Pentecost at the receiving of the Holy Spirit. That was when the church was created and Christianity branch out from Judaism.

[Stingray 9,441]

  On 29/05/2015 at 13:40, Fernando said:

What 50? I was saying in general.

Say someone gives you 50 prophecy but only one is accurate and all the other false it doesn't mean much.

Furthermore the Bible has hundreds of Bible prophecy. Many from Old Testament that was fulfilled old testament, many from Old testament that was fulfilled in New testament and recently others being fulfilled with Israel.

Would you be seriously interested in listening to these prophecies?

Because I can take my time and write them out. It will be a long one, so I will only do it if you will consider it.

Other then that the roots of Christianity is much older? What you talking about. Christianity emerged 50 days after Jesus resurrection at Pentecost at the receiving of the Holy Spirit. That was when the church was created and Christianity branch out from Judaism.

I could have trolled you and asked to write out all the prophecies like you once did with me in the Israel/palestine debate. I decided to be the better man. So no, thank you. Prophecies are hit and miss, like fortune telling. Because of our innate confirmation bias, we grasp on those that turn out true(mostly highly interpreteren and debatable). However, it is pure chance.

On the roots of Christianity: history of religion. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism , i cant be bugged to translate my research into english right now so this is just a introductory source.

It didnt just magically start at the birth of Jesus. There is even a LOT of debate on who the historical Jesus actually was. All the sources of his life date from decades after his death. What does rigorous historical research teach us?

1) there is not one strictly historical source on Jesus. None. Secondary sources barely mention him. Flavius Josephus mentions Jacobus "the brother of Jezus", but no further reference. Philo van Alexandrië, a contemporary of Jezus who knew Palestina goed well, doesn't mention him.

If he existed, which i can believe, he wasn't well known.

2) We have writings of Christian authors, but none of them knew Jesus himself. The oldest sources are the original letters Paulus (Paul) wrote between 50-60. After that the evangelies(i dont know the english word tbh) but they are written at least 40 years after Jesus died. The oldest (Marcus or Marc) is the shortest and spawned both Mattheus and Johannes ( i guess John in English). However those two are highly contradictory about the childhood of Jesus. All of them refer more to the mythical Jesus, which in light of Judaism, sounds more like an attempt to seperate from Judaism as a cult. Very succesfull btw, but is it true?

There isn't a single shred of evidence in ANY source. Weird for the son of God isn't it?

Now, i respect your beliefs. But that is just what they are, beliefs. No more. You have no claim whatsoever on truth. None. Just beliefs.

[Fernando 6,533]

  On 30/05/2015 at 09:04, Stingray said:

I could have trolled you and asked to write out all the prophecies like you once did with me in the Israel/palestine debate. I decided to be the better man. So no, thank you. Prophecies are hit and miss, like fortune telling. Because of our innate confirmation bias, we grasp on those that turn out true(mostly highly interpreteren and debatable). However, it is pure chance.

On the roots of Christianity: history of religion. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism , i cant be bugged to translate my research into english right now so this is just a introductory source.

It didnt just magically start at the birth of Jesus. There is even a LOT of debate on who the historical Jesus actually was. All the sources of his life date from decades after his death. What does rigorous historical research teach us?

1) there is not one strictly historical source on Jesus. None. Secondary sources barely mention him. Flavius Josephus mentions Jacobus "the brother of Jezus", but no further reference. Philo van Alexandrië, a contemporary of Jezus who knew Palestina goed well, doesn't mention him.

If he existed, which i can believe, he wasn't well known.

2) We have writings of Christian authors, but none of them knew Jesus himself. The oldest sources are the original letters Paulus (Paul) wrote between 50-60. After that the evangelies(i dont know the english word tbh) but they are written at least 40 years after Jesus died. The oldest (Marcus or Marc) is the shortest and spawned both Mattheus and Johannes ( i guess John in English). However those two are highly contradictory about the childhood of Jesus. All of them refer more to the mythical Jesus, which in light of Judaism, sounds more like an attempt to seperate from Judaism as a cult. Very succesfull btw, but is it true?

There isn't a single shred of evidence in ANY source. Weird for the son of God isn't it?

Now, i respect your beliefs. But that is just what they are, beliefs. No more. You have no claim whatsoever on truth. None. Just beliefs.

Like I said the truth is Prophecy.

There's a lot of religion out there but few can predict the future from the past.

I see your already skeptical about Jesus so no point in talking about the Prophecy that Jesus fulfilled.

But I'm sure you can't negate the Prophecy that was fulfilled with Israel. Those was written thousands of years ago, and no nation in the history of mankind has done something like that. Been disburse from their nation and come back after two thousand years.

If you don't believe in that then if I tell you the future Prophecy of the rapture of the church the seven peace year treaty between a world leader and Israel you still will not believe if you see it happened.

[Stingray 9,441]

  On 30/05/2015 at 16:31, Fernando said:

Like I said the truth is Prophecy.

There's a lot of religion out there but few can predict the future from the past.

I see your already skeptical about Jesus so no point in talking about the Prophecy that Jesus fulfilled.

But I'm sure you can't negate the Prophecy that was fulfilled with Israel. Those was written thousands of years ago, and no nation in the history of mankind has done something like that. Been disburse from their nation and come back after two thousand years.

If you don't believe in that then if I tell you the future Prophecy of the rapture of the church the seven peace year treaty between a world leader and Israel you still will not believe if you see it happened.

Explain please, what is that prophecy?

[Fernando 6,533]

  On 30/05/2015 at 17:24, Stingray said:

Explain please, what is that prophecy?

Israel Prophecy?

Okay will write some stuff here.

First the bible says that as long as there is a sun and moon, the Jewish people will continue to exist as a specific people. Even during the 1816 year dispersion (Israel seize to be a nation in AD 132), they have remained an identifiable ethnic group and are now a nation once again (AD 1948 Israel Reborn).

Note that the nation of Israel was dispersed before as well. For the first in 606 BC by the Babylonians. There are several prophecies about Israel's return from the "land of the north," which was their return from Babylon in 536 BC. After this first return to their land, they where dispersed again by the Romans for 1,816 years (AD 132 to AD 1948). This return from all nations, or from the four corners of the earth, is referred to as the second return by Isaiah the prophet.

Isaiah 11: 11-12

11In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the surviving remnant of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush,^b from Elam, from Babylonia,^c from Hamath and from the islands of the Mediterranean.

12He will raise a banner for the nations

and gather the exiles of Israel;

he will assemble the scattered people of Judah

from the four quarters of the earth.

Other passages that talk about the return from "all nations"

Isaiah 43: 5-7

Jeremiah 16: 14-15; 23:8; 24:6; 29:14; 30:3,10-11; 31:1; 32:37-38; 33:7

Ezekiel 28:25; 34:11-12

Zecharia 10:6

Notice that there is no mention of a third return to the land. In fact, the prophet Amos says that after this second return, Israel will never be dispersed again. Jeremiah 24:6 also records this.

Amos 9:15

15I will plant Israel in their own land,

never again to be uprooted

from the land I have given them,”

Now that we have that settled lets look at the following prophecies that deal with the return from all nations, the second return, so we know the fulfillment occur sometime after AD 1948.

The prophets predicted the second return would begin with Great Britain bringing the Jewish people back to their ancient homeland by ship. This took place during the first half of the twentieth century. The ancient name of England/Great Britain was Tarshish.

Isiah 60:9

9Surely the islands look to me;

in the lead are the ships of Tarshish,^a

bringing your children from afar,

with their silver and gold,

to the honor of the Lord your God,

the Holy One of Israel,

for he has endowed you with splendor.

I could write about the role the British had in bringing back Israel but I would assume you know this....

Hosea prophecy how the Jewish people will return as one nation, not two

Hosea 1:10-11

10“Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which cannot be measured or counted. In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called ‘children of the living God.’ 11The people of Judah and the people of Israel will come together; they will appoint one leader and will come up out of the land, for great will be the day of Jezreel.^c

When the United Nations made the decree, the nation of Israel, which did not exist a moment before, become a sovereign nation. Thus Israel was born in a single day

Isaiah 66:8

8Who has ever heard of such things?

Who has ever seen things like this?

Can a country be born in a day

or a nation be brought forth in a moment?

Yet no sooner is Zion in labor

than she gives birth to her children.

Isaiah prophesied the Israeli flag will have the symbol of the root of Jesse, or King David's star, on it. Jesse was the father of King David. The crest, or symbol, of his household was the six pointed star. Today this is knows as the Star of David. The Star of David is the symbol for the nation of Israel and is the symbol on the modern Israeli flag.

Isaiah 11:10

10In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his resting place will be glorious

The restored nation of Israel would be placed back in its old land, not resettled somewhere else. Jeremiah and Ezekiel foretold this in Jeremiah 30:3; Jeremiah 16:15; and Ezekiel 37.

Jeremiah 30:3

3The days are coming,’ declares the Lord, ‘when I will bring my people Israel and Judah back from captivity^a and restore them to the land I gave their ancestors to possess,’ says the Lord.”

Okay I will stop here.

This are but a few of the biblical prophecies that was fulfilled with Israel.

The bible is filled with prophecies, it's actually made up one third of prophecy. And why is this?

Well it's simple, it's to prove that some higher being can do this.

As it is written:

Isaiah 44:6-8

6“This is what the Lord says—

Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty:

I am the first and I am the last;

apart from me there is no God.

7Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it.

Let him declare and lay out before me

what has happened since I established my ancient people,

and what is yet to come—

yes, let them foretell what will come.

8Do not tremble, do not be afraid.

Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago?

You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me?

No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”