Our best back four

[Spike 12,049]

I honestly think Ivan is much better at attacking than Bosingwa. Bosingwa just runs at defenders, delivers poor crosses and loses a lot of posession. Whereas Ivan may not get foward as much, he is much more potent when he does. Strong in the air and has a powerful and accurate cross.

Against struggling teams:

Ivan - Luiz - Cahill - Bertrand

Against the stronger teams:

Ivan - Luiz - JT- Cole

[manpe 10,861]

Can I ask, for all those criticising Bosingwa, why Luiz remains in your 'best' back four? Luiz is just as prone to mistakes as Bosingwa for me. Just seems a little contradictory that just because he is a fan favourite, he is less vulnerable to criticism of his defensive capabilities

Luiz is MUCH more solid than Bosingwa. I wouldn't even categorize them in the same class. There are more things to his game than pace.

[magicrico 175]

I think the most solid back four is

Ivan----Cahill----JT----Cole

As mentioned before.

Luiz is good but still way too prone to mistakes to be rated as our best centre back.

Wouldn't mind seeing

luiz-----Cahill----JT----Cole

Or even

Ivan---Luiz---Cahill---Cole

[Slam Dunk 1,442]

Luiz is MUCH more solid than Bosingwa. I wouldn't even categorize them in the same class. There are more things to his game than pace.

I'm aware of both Bosingwa's and Luiz's strengths and weaknesses. My point was that both of them have made rather noticeable mistakes in the not-too-distant past and yet Bosingwa is being condemned by our own fans, however Luiz's mistakes are going largely unnoticed. I like Luiz, as a player he is great to watch, but he is a defender first and foremost and is prone to being sucked into attacks and making rash challenges too high up the pitch. You're also forgetting that when both Luiz and Bosingwa play, Luiz has JT to cover him, Bosingwa is largely left to face the attacker 1-on-1.

Frankly, if we're talking about our strongest back four, defensively speaking, i'd have neither of them in it.

[xPetrCechx 13,578]

Luiz-Cahill-Terry-Cole

[manpe 10,861]

I'm aware of both Bosingwa's and Luiz's strengths and weaknesses. My point was that both of them have made rather noticeable mistakes in the not-too-distant past and yet Bosingwa is being condemned by our own fans, however Luiz's mistakes are going largely unnoticed. I like Luiz, as a player he is great to watch, but he is a defender first and foremost and is prone to being sucked into attacks and making rash challenges too high up the pitch. You're also forgetting that when both Luiz and Bosingwa play, Luiz has JT to cover him, Bosingwa is largely left to face the attacker 1-on-1.

Seriously? Every game he gets slated for his mistake(s), more than his compatriots... what about the whole "move him to DMF" campaign that was so active at one point. When he plays, he's arguably under bigger attention than Bosingwa, far more attention than the English left side. Apart from Torres, I think he's the player who gets most attention from our fans and pundits.

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

I like Luiz but he does make alot of silly mistakes, He has alot of potential and skills but are those skills suitable for a CB? DM is no longer an option and RB is unlikely, although worth a try. I honestly think Cahill is here to start ahead of Luiz, but a Luiz-Cahill partnership should be tried too.

I'd like to buy a RB as well because If Ivanovic plays at RB we only have one CB for cover and if Ivanovic is forced to play CB than were stuck with Bosingwhat? (that's what I'm gonna call him as he doesn't know whats going on around him 90% of the time), I don't think Cahill alone is the answer to such a massive problem, our defense.

[TacticalBlues 2,817]

I like Luiz a lot and think he should still be our no.1 CB, we could try playing him at RB though with Cahill & JT as CB's and AC as our LB. Although Cahill aside I've always felt OP's back four is our strongest.

This cartoon shows Cahill replacing Luiz. On side note the frustrated Lampard in the corner and Drogba still being ahead of Torres was pretty funny.

[Slam Dunk 1,442]

Seriously? Every game he gets slated for his mistake(s), more than his compatriots... what about the whole "move him to DMF" campaign that was so active at one point. When he plays, he's arguably under bigger attention than Bosingwa, far more attention than the English left side. Apart from Torres, I think he's the player who gets most attention from our fans and pundits.

Sorry, but compared to Bosingwa's reputation on this forum, Luiz's shortcomings are highlighted nowhere near as often.

In the context of this thread, as I was originally saying, neither of them would be in the strongest back four. Luiz will hopefully become a great CB for the club, he's still getting used to the league, and I know we've yet to see Cahill play for us, but in the context of the here-and-now, i'd prefer Cahill in the defensive unit.

[Tomo 21,751]

Can I ask, for all those criticising Bosingwa, why Luiz remains in your 'best' back four?

Because when we play that back four, we get wins and clean sheets and don't concede that often.

[Slam Dunk 1,442]

Because when we play that back four, we get wins and clean sheets and don't concede that often.

Is that stat from your original post from this season only? Frankly, with Alex outcast from the squad, we haven't had many options other than to play that back four and we've still looked frail at the back all season long anyway, even if the stats show otherwise.

[manpe 10,861]

Is that stat from your original post from this season only? Frankly, with Alex outcast from the squad, we haven't had many options other than to play that back four and we've still looked frail at the back all season long anyway.

I still believe our defensive frailties are a team issue, not only defensive line.. casting out Luiz and/or Bosingwa would help only so much, but our pressing and defending further up the pitch must improve. Also, the communication and cohesion between the whole team should be spot on, it's not yet. The team has been told to play more expansive and risky football, which results in considerably more risk passes and ball loss, hence leaving more pressure on the low lines to deal with it, something our team is not very used to but will get used to in time (btw, I believe that was the reason of the high-line too, which by practice showed didn't work). When we talk about the attack, we say it can't exist without a properly functioning midfield... I maintain that the same applies to defence. The best defence is possession and we can't hold it or use it to maximum efficiency, especially when closed down and under pressure and threatened by counter-attacks. When you look at our whole team's organization and placement when we concede, you can see it's a mess, all through from the backline to attack (or top of midfield).

[Slam Dunk 1,442]

I still believe our defensive frailties are a team issue, not only defensive line.. casting out Luiz and/or Bosingwa would help only so much, but our pressing and defending further up the pitch must improve. Also, the communication and cohesion between the whole team should be spot on, it's not yet. The team has been told to play more expansive football, which leaves more pressure on the low lines, something our team is not very used to but will get used to in time. When we talk about the attack, we say it can't exist without a properly functioning midfield... I maintain that the same applies to defence. The best defence is possession and we can't hold it or use it to maximum efficiency, especially when closed down and under pressure and threatened by counter-attacks.

Now that I agree with you on. Unfortunately, only Lampard and Ramires understand that pressing wins the ball back. Meireles cannot tackle at all, which is my major problem with him in the context of our team, and the wide players are often too slow to cover a counter attack.

Another major problem I have with our team, and i'm sure I mentioned this in another thread, is the Mata/Meireles/Cole defensive capabilities on the left hand side. Mata drifts far too central and therefore cannot press quickly enough in the wide areas, Meireles, as i've mentioned, always loses the 50/50 challenges, leaving Cole majorly exposed. Often enough, we can get away with it because Ashely is such an established, experienced defender of the ball. I believe however, if Ash were to become injured (touch wood), then a player such as Ryan would be severely exposed. You can see this problem highlighted when we're going forward. Ashley runs the line, Mata is standing central and is being heavily marked, so Cole's only option is to pass back (often to Lampard who is standing either square to him or behind him). I'd suggest this could be fixed by us signing a left winger who will run the lines and defend appropriately, leaving Mata central and 2 holding players in the centre (i.e Ramires/Lampard/Essien).

[Tomo 21,751]

Is that stat from your original post from this season only? Frankly, with Alex outcast from the squad, we haven't had many options other than to play that back four and we've still looked frail at the back all season long anyway, even if the stats show otherwise.

11 times we have started with that back four, 7 goals conceded, 6 clean sheets. Pretty impressive i say. Get that back four together on a consistent basis = cleansheets.

[Peace. 4,352]

Lord, even Chelsea fans think Luiz is a liability.... Media's propaganda is effective, isn't it ?

[Slam Dunk 1,442]

Lord, even Chelsea fans think Luiz is a liability.... Media's propaganda is effective, isn't it ?

Not sure if you were referring to me there mate, but I never once said he was a liability. Just pointing out the fact that he's susceptible to mistakes just as much as Bosingwa is, yet most cant wait for Bos to leave, and say Luiz is one of our best defenders.

[Peace. 4,352]

Not sure if you were referring to me there mate, but I never once said he was a liability. Just pointing out the fact that he's susceptible to mistakes just as much as Bosingwa is, yet most cant wait for Bos to leave, and say Luiz is one of our best defenders.

No no, it was in general.

Luiz is our best defender at the moment. Over the past six months, he has made less mistakes than Terry, Bosingwa, Cole or Ivanovic. People keep focus on the odd one or two mistake Luiz does in a game because those mistakes are what we can label as "silly". For instance, he loses the ball when trying to dribble. Hence I would say they are more "noticable" than what other defenders could make. While Cole, Terry and co, make what we can call "normal" mistakes, i.e. they are beaten easely by their opponent, and similar stuff. So it doesn't look silly, but somehow normal, and thus we don't mind them.

And yes Luiz is prone to make one spectacular mistake in almost every game. But what he brings to our side amply makes up for the mistake(s) he makes. And seriously, you can't lump Luiz and Bosingwa in the same group. While the first man makes one or two spectacular mistakes in a game which seldom (this is for you LDN ) cost us a goal, the last man makes countless mistakes which are often sanctionned by a goal. And as I said above, Luiz brings a lot to the squad, while Bosingwa brings us strictly nothing.

[Slam Dunk 1,442]

Could argue, however, that a defender shouldn't be making the mistakes that Luiz is prone to making (i.e impatience to win the ball too far away from the box). This is what is making them stand out from the other players' mistakes and is the reason he is drawing criticism.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I don't think Luiz would make a good right-back. Maybe experiment it in the last 15minutes of a game, to see if it works, otherwise no. If he was a better right-back, he'd play there for Brazil & Benfica.

[Tomo 21,751]

Not sure if you were referring to me there mate, but I never once said he was a liability. Just pointing out the fact that he's susceptible to mistakes just as much as Bosingwa is, yet most cant wait for Bos to leave, and say Luiz is one of our best defenders.

There is a huge difference between Luiz and Bosingwa i can't believe there is a comparision.

Luiz makes mistakes at time so what? i could probally name atleast 6 mistakes Ivanovic and Alex have made in the last year or so are they bad?

Bosingwa is a different kettle of fish, i cba to go into detail but i will if i absolutely have too.