Our best back four

[DDA 9,570]

I'm sorry, but isn't that the whole point of this forum and all forums in general: to provoke meaningful discussions? If we were all of the same opinion this forum would be pointless.

Yes but there are ways of going about it CHOULO. I've restrained myself from being a total prick towards Peace a fair few times because i respect the fact he has been a long serving member of this forum. So when he trots along with a plastic internet swagger i'll fuckin reply the same way!

[Henrique 9,133]

Little Boy?? lmao Ok, if you say so! I'm not here to start any bullshit with you guys but little boy! Back the fuck up Henriqueer

are you on drugs ? perhaps we should change your nickname to drugstar, lmao

actually you are acting like a freaky girl.

[DDA 9,570]

are you on drugs ? perhaps we should change your nickname to drugstar, lmao

actually you are acting like a freaky girl.

I supose the fact i am blazing a huge seductive spliff right now phases you? It wouldn't surprise me, and you call me a little boy loool

[LDN Blue 7,903]

:protest:

[Hysteria 159]

Why some people are putting Cahill over Luiz when he doesn't play yet?

[Peace. 4,352]

Why do you think he cant play as a DM?

Well, first of all, it isn't that he can't play at this position at all, but he wouldn't be as good as some people think he would be. Of course, he could play there once or twice if all our Holding Midfielders are out.

The main reason for which some people want Luiz to play as a Midfielder, it is because he does make his well-known runs forward. But the truth is, if he is played as a Midfielder, he won't be able to make these runs. If he is capable of making such runs, this is because he is a defender, and when you are a defender, you never have an opponent to chase you down. Indeed, the other team's players are already busy with your fellows playing in midfield and in attack. Thereby, Luiz is able to reach the opponent's box without facing any resistance, and he has a clear way. So, if he was playing as a defensive midfielder, he couldn't do that, because he would permanently have a player on his back to press him.

Furthermore, I don't know if you have noticed, he always starts to run from his own 30 yards, he thus reaches the opposition with a fair amount of speed... If he was playing in midfield, he obviously wouldn't be able to make that.

And what is very interesting with him playing in defense, is that he can help out the midfield to break the opposition's defense by outnumbering their midfield/defense. Considering the actual context, i.e. our midfield's inability to create things, this help from our very own SideShow Bob is welcomed. Once again, he wouldn't have this effect if he was playing in midfield.

Finally, a Defensive Midfielder has to sit back to help out with the defensive duties. Makelele was doing this, Busquest does this, as Romeu and Mikel. I am not really sure he has the discipline to do this. You could argue if he hasn't the discipline to be a DM, he neither can be a CB. But, when he leaves out his position, there's Ivanovic who slides to the axis, and Mikel/Romeu staying near Terry.

Well, I hope to have been understandable, lol.

[ja1 1,166]

So I have to let what AVB does dictate my opinion? AVB also plays Bosingwa, does that mean he is not having a poor season, has not made mistakes and needs to have competition? Although he has that with Ivanovic.

And are you saying it is better for players not playing well at the age of 31 to have NO rests and NO competition. I do not mind no rests if the player is young and a good athlete. I do nod mind no competition if the player is in great form. Cole has neither at the moment. Well he is a good athlete but this heavily ties in with his age

[SeB 1,281]

I just don't want Luiz and Cahill playing alongside each other because they both base their defensive play on the anticipation, I think their covering ability is poor.

Otherwise I think the best back four possible would be Ivanovic, Luiz, Terry and Cole.

Ivanovic is balanced and has dramaticaly improved when he goes forward. I put Luiz ahead of Cahill because Luiz has been playing pretty well for the last weeks, mainly because he takes less risks in his interventions, he does not challenge too high on the pitch like he used to do in the past. He has also a far better distribution than Cahill, I really wonder if Luiz has the best long play in the team after Terry...

I do agree with people who thinks Cole needs a rest, especially because I'm a huge Bertrand fan (and when we see that not that much Chelsea loanees performs well on loan eventually, even if the contexts are always different). But if Villas Boas did not make a move so far, it's because Cole provides such a high guaranty in many domains. Of course he's not the greatest crosser out of there, he sometimes forgets himself more than before defensively... but he keeps being a fantastic athlete, his passing accuracy is one of the best in Europe and he brings real quality because he's experienced and accurate ; not many passing choices are really like giving the ball away. Plus, he's really part of the team's play, in the build up and offensively, it's a bit like Ramires, sometimes his importance is underlined when he's not playing. The team unconsciously relies on Cole in my opinion.

We noticed that Bertrand does too, but a left back providing a run forward allows more space to wingers to cut inside. These runs have to be made like if they are going to get the ball whereas they won't always reveive it. And Cole can do that during all 90mn week after weeks, look at the Wolves game, the run and the accuracy of the pass to Lampard is quite exceptional after 90mn.

Left back is a position where the players looks older the quickest, of course Cole shows signs of lowerings but what he can provides stays far above the large majority of other left backs.

Because it's also the subject here, I would like to evoke Bosingwa. I'm not a fan of the mentality, but I keep thinking the stick he's being given is sometimes harsh. Since his injury (and even before I think) he has strugled to play a whole game on the same intensity, because he has a high depense of energy, and because he's not an as good athlete as many other players in the team. Plus he's become even more irregular than in the past, on a run of games and in a whole game.

But we should not forget that he keeps being very exposed due to the presence of Sturridge in front of him, Sturridge is not Valencia or the past Kuyt, he has not the same volume of play and the willing to really help to defend in transition phasis. Like after his come back from injury, Bosingwa lacks support in defense because he often faces 2 players.

With Ramires in front of him like the second part of last season, we often saw that defensively he was more solid and longer in the game

Some fresh blood would be pleasant there, but Bosingwa keeps providing a kind of security that a youngster won't especially. As often it's the half empty or full glass debate. Anyway I don't think that Bosingwa is absolute shit and by far the worst player this season

[BlueLion. 21,491]

I just don't want Luiz and Cahill playing alongside each other because they both base their defensive play on the anticipation, I think their covering ability is poor.

Very fair point, but you can also argue that Terry's play is based on anticipation and reading of the game. However, though his defensive abilities have diminished slightly (he's still very, very good), his authority and commanding presence just seems to sure us up at the back. He is our captain afterall, so I don't think he can be dropped unless the circumstances call for it, or he is underperforming, which, at the moment, he certainly is not. I'd say he has easily been our best defender this season, the Arsenal game aside. It's just a shame he has killed part of his legacy with his off-the-pitch "activities".

Otherwise I think the best back four possible would be Ivanovic, Luiz, Terry and Cole.

Ivanovic is balanced and has dramaticaly improved when he goes forward. I put Luiz ahead of Cahill because Luiz has been playing pretty well for the last weeks, mainly because he takes less risks in his interventions, he does not challenge too high on the pitch like he used to do in the past. He has also a far better distribution than Cahill, I really wonder if Luiz has the best long play in the team after Terry...

Yes, plus Ivanovic doesn't look very good at centre back anymore! I would say he is now more accustomed to playing at RB, and his best performances for Chelsea have come from this position. However Cahill is excellent technically when in possession of the ball, he is as good as Luiz in my opinion. Plus he is our tallest CB and is a massive threat from set-pieces, so I don't think we can dismiss him yet. I'm very excited about seeing him play.

I do agree with people who thinks Cole needs a rest, especially because I'm a huge Bertrand fan (and when we see that not that much Chelsea loanees performs well on loan eventually, even if the contexts are always different). But if Villas Boas did not make a move so far, it's because Cole provides such a high guaranty in many domains. Of course he's not the greatest crosser out of there, he sometimes forgets himself more than before defensively... but he keeps being a fantastic athlete, his passing accuracy is one of the best in Europe and he brings real quality because he's experienced and accurate ; not many passing choices are really like giving the ball away. Plus, he's really part of the team's play, in the build up and offensively, it's a bit like Ramires, sometimes his importance is underlined when he's not playing. The team unconsciously relies on Cole in my opinion.

We noticed that Bertrand does too, but a left back providing a run forward allows more space to wingers to cut inside. These runs have to be made like if they are going to get the ball whereas they won't always reveive it. And Cole can do that during all 90mn week after weeks, look at the Wolves game, the run and the accuracy of the pass to Lampard is quite exceptional after 90mn.

Left back is a position where the players looks older the quickest, of course Cole shows signs of lowerings but what he can provides stays far above the large majority of other left backs.

Full-back is the most demanding position on the football pitch so it is no wonder why Cole looks fatigued. He certainly needs a rest, and Bertrand needs the experience... however I believe AVB is conscious of changing too much at once, and since we currently have no consistent centre-back pairing and no obvious choice for RB until Ivanovic is backed and played a few more games to regain game sharpness, I can't see Cole being dropped because he is part of the spine of the team. Changing the defence all the time is a risky business, to completely rotate it would be suicide.

Because it's also the subject here, I would like to evoke Bosingwa. I'm not a fan of the mentality, but I keep thinking the stick he's being given is sometimes harsh. Since his injury (and even before I think) he has strugled to play a whole game on the same intensity, because he has a high depense of energy, and because he's not an as good athlete as many other players in the team. Plus he's become even more irregular than in the past, on a run of games and in a whole game.

But we should not forget that he keeps being very exposed due to the presence of Sturridge in front of him, Sturridge is not Valencia or the past Kuyt, he has not the same volume of play and the willing to really help to defend in transition phasis. Like after his come back from injury, Bosingwa lacks support in defense because he often faces 2 players.

With Ramires in front of him like the second part of last season, we often saw that defensively he was more solid and longer in the game

Some fresh blood would be pleasant there, but Bosingwa keeps providing a kind of security that a youngster won't especially. As often it's the half empty or full glass debate. Anyway I don't think that Bosingwa is absolute shit and by far the worst player this season

Bosingwa is just being scapegoated. Every player goes through a period of this when we're not winning all the time. Bad performances individually often get papered over when the team is playing well collectively and we are winning matches, or if you name is Lampard, Terry, Torres, Drogba or Cech!

My responses are in bold.

[Kostas 1,468]

Anyway I don't think that Bosingwa is absolute shit and by far the worst player this season

Are you challenging the by far part or actually suggesting there's another regular starter as shocking as he is?

[ja1 1,166]

Cole today proved why he is the best LB in England, in fact the best LB in Europe, and should for that matter have no competition or rest time and start every match <ok>

[francozola 2,040]

^ Please let that be sarcasm

He was awful yesterday. Three times he got completely caught out. Once he actually just stood there and let the player get to the long diagonal ball first. Absolutely pathetic defending.

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

^ Please let that be sarcasm

He was awful yesterday. Three times he got completely caught out. Once he actually just stood there and let the player get to the long diagonal ball first. Absolutely pathetic defending.

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic,Bertrand needs to be getting more chances

[SeB 1,281]

Are you challenging the by far part or actually suggesting there's another regular starter as shocking as he is?

I think he's inconsistent in a game, not especially that he's awful on the whole 90 minutes. He misses crosses, but except Drogba and Malouda, who is able to cross well in the team ? (Meireles used to do so at Liverpool, he has forgiven the way to bend it properly at Scumpool). Ashley Cole is an awful crosser, one cross out of ten is on the chest and every other is low and not exploitable.

Bosingwa can be nonchalant at times, it's the why we can reproach him with, on his elastic marking on set pieces. But keep on mind he's not an as good athlete as many other players in the team, especially since his injury. I would say he's decent with some lows and highs during a game

Plus, we know what are the requirements to play there, when modern full backs approaches 30 years old they start to decline. There's no decent full back on the market, we can wait Hutchinson to come through or put some money on Nathaniel Clyne in 1 or 2 years.

As often it's the full or emtpy glass debate, I know the contexts are totally opposed but it reminds me the stick Ramires was given because of missed passes whereas he was decent or good in others domains during his first months. People focalize themselves on visible things, what they see at the moment. Though we know Bosingwa's limits, his injury, the lack of solutions on the market... People seems to forget the requirements to play at Chelsea, we can't put a complete stranger, even McEachran or Bertrand don't play so how in the world could Hutchinson or Billy Clifford play at RB because they would seem better than Bosingwa ?

We shouldn't bash him like that but it's my point of view

I've forgotten the most important point, Bosingwa also struggles because he's exposed. Sturridge is neither willingly to help defending (just tracking an opponent and coming back to his own half is not defending. Defending is Antonio Valencia or Malouda) neither a genuine right winger. So of course Bosingwa faces 2 players, the winger and the full back...