Gary Cahill

[The only place to be 11,313]

Are those personal insults aimed at me?

Nope.

What credit does he deserve?

He's a solid player who had a strong season in Jose's tactics

Would he be able to replicate those performances for a team that isn't as well structured like Arsenal or Tottenham? I doubt it

He deserves the credit that most supporters gave him...he was widely viewed as one of our best players last year and in my opinion he actually picked up a lot of the slack that JT leaves nowadays because of his advancing years.

Those two together complimented each other perfectly. Your comment about replicating performances in a shittier team could apply to Lamps, JT, Cole, Cech etc. In fact JT is a great example of a player who simply didn't replicate his club form at international level. Do you want to criticise him? Of course not.

For some reason Cahill is an easy target.

IMO, the last real WC defenders were Nesta-Thiago Silva. AC Milan's defence was a joy to watch when Nesta was in his prime. But in recent years, defenders really have been poor, even in top teams. Hell if I know why. It's pretty puzzling, actually.

Great point. Cahill isn't world class, but very, very few players are. Defenders are going for £50 million who aren't world class, such is the dearth of decent options nowadays.

[Henrique 9,133]

To be fair, are there any real world class defenders out there ala Canavaro, Maldini, Helguera, Blanc, Terry, Puyol,..?

I dont think so. Ramos, Pique; Luiz,...are good players, but they are better in other things, not defending.

When comes to defending, Cahill is better there. Thiago Silva, Chielini are better, but defenders in general are very poor in recent years and Cahill among those is actualy very good. But he wouldnt come close to Terry, Cannavaro etc in their prime.

Also, Baines was terrible in wc, johnson was never amazing, jagielka was poor aswell. And there is gerrard who gives ball to opponent strikers...you donr see that in other top teams in general. England was exposed many times, they have no DM and the result is there. Cahill only mistake was that balo goal, but if there was no Cahill, england would concede at least two more goals.

I agree, its easier to defend when whole team defends (even kalas looked world class vs liverpol), but Cahill was good whole season.

@henrique

Luiz will never be better defender than Cahill, maybe better player and will go further in WC, but his defending is worse than Cahill.

Luiz is clearly better player and defender.

Cahill had a better season, but that doesn't make him the better defender.

[iseah100 5,612]

Luiz is clearly better player and defender.

Said no one ever.

[robsblubot 3,595]

Said no one ever.

I guess he just did.

The players market spoke earlier, but people here don't understand the language.

[iseah100 5,612]

I guess he just did.

The players market spoke earlier, but people here don't understand the language.

Said no one ever who isn't Brazilian.*

[robsblubot 3,595]

Said no one ever who isn't Brazilian.*

Last time I checked PSG is from France, Bayer is from Germany, and Barcelona from Spain.

[iseah100 5,612]

Last time I checked PSG is from France, Bayer is from Germany, and Barcelona from Spain.

Last time I checked, Luiz isn't worth £50m. But whatever floats your boat, yo.

[robsblubot 3,595]

Last time I checked, Luiz isn't worth £50m. But whatever floats your boat, yo.

So where did you "check"?

You have a serious problem with facts vs opinion: the fact is PSG did pay 50m while your "opinion" is that he's not worth 50m.

Barca offer was gong to be 35M (also not a fact but some reports), so PSG had to outbid them. So, why hasn't Gary gotten any offer ever? Why isn't any top side after him?

[BlueLyon 9,359]

There was time Cahill was rumoured to be target of barcelona too. Check if you dont belive...

But does that make any difference who is better player?

No, Cahill is one who is more reliable at the back through all season, Luiz made few outstanding performances every season mostly in CL and in big PL games, but as much he was awesome, he was also bad in certain other games.

To conclude, he played as DM this season here, sure there was reason why Cahill was chosen ahead of him by Mou. Defensive tactics helped and made Cahill look beter than he is, but with Luiz in our defence who constantly charges up the field, our team would concede more goals than with Cahill, despite defensive tactics. And there is difference.

Cahill as CB is more reliable, while Luiz has more awesome hair. Luiz is exotic type of CB who charges forward all the time. He could be world class DM, but as CB he just isnt consistent enough. He has more passion than Cahill, but in every other part of defending, Cahill gets ahead.

Cahill-Terry parthership got worldwide recognition, we conceded least goals in PL, 10 less than City.

I dont recall Terry-Luiz partnership being called world class on the other hand.

Bottom line is, Luiz is way too mistake prone when not playing for Brazil, he doesnt suit us and for 50mio, we can always splash cash on Mangala, Varane, Benatia who will be/is definately better in every aspect of defending than Luiz.

And the fact he got sold for 50 mio doesnt make him better than he is. If 50m for Luiz means anything its that Psg owner is idiot. If he wanted strong defence; he would buy Benatia for example.

[robsblubot 3,595]

There was time Cahill was rumoured to be target of barcelona too. Check if you dont belive...

But does that make any difference who is better player?

No, Cahill is one who is more reliable at the back through all season, Luiz made few outstanding performances every season mostly in CL and in big PL games, but as much he was awesome, he was also bad in certain other games.

To conclude, he played as DM this season here, sure there was reason why Cahill was chosen ahead of him by Mou. Defensive tactics helped and made Cahill look beter than he is, but with Luiz in our defence who constantly charges up the field, our team would concede more goals than with Cahill, despite defensive tactics. And there is difference.

Cahill as CB is more reliable, while Luiz has more awesome hair. Luiz is exotic type of CB who charges forward all the time. He could be world class DM, but as CB he just isnt consistent enough. He has more passion than Cahill, but in every other part of defending, Cahill gets ahead.

Cahill-Terry parthership got worldwide recognition, we conceded least goals in PL, 10 less than City.

I dont recall Terry-Luiz partnership being called world class on the other hand.

Bottom line is, Luiz is way too mistake prone when not playing for Brazil, he doesnt suit us and for 50mio, we can always splash cash on Mangala, Varane, Benatia who will be/is definately better in every aspect of defending than Luiz.

And the fact he got sold for 50 mio doesnt make him better than he is. If 50m for Luiz means anything its that Psg owner is idiot. If he wanted strong defence; he would buy Benatia for example.

" Luiz has more awesome hair."

That's a ridiculous stament. So, you are saying PSG paid 50m for his hair. You know it's not the owner right? that they have scouts, agents, coaches who are paid to research and get the data on stuff like this? Yeah yeah everybody is an idiot, except Chelsea fans who think Gary is the best defender in the world.

Never seen any reports about any team after Gary, and he'd be awful at Barca; they need high blocking defenders. (this is an opinion)

[BlueLyon 9,359]

So where did you "check"?

You have a serious problem with facts vs opinion: the fact is PSG did pay 50m while your "opinion" is that he's not worth 50m.

Barca offer was gong to be 35M (also not a fact but some reports), so PSG had to outbid them. So, why hasn't Gary gotten any offer ever? Why isn't any top side after him?

Look I like Luiz too, he is funny guy and great person, but Psg paid 50m for Luiz awesome hair, not because he would be great defender.

Pastore went for 40m too. Does that make him a 40m player? Did he pay the price invested? Hazard went for less. Is Pastore a better player than? Was Illara ever worth 40m and therefore better player than Alonso, a player that RM bought "only" 35m?

Money spent on certain player means shit all. It depends on who is the seller, how marketable is player and how stupid the buyer is. It doesnt tell how good certain player is.

I can say that Luiz could be hit in Psg, but he wont justify the 50m, unless he makes 10 goal clearances and scores winning header in CL final for psg.

And with Cahill in defence, we managed to stop Messi, and this year with Cahill in defence we stopped Cavani, Suarez, Chicarito,..players that scored against us when Luiz was playing as CB in previous years.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

" Luiz has more awesome hair."

That's a ridiculous stament. So, you are saying PSG paid 50m for his hair. You know it's not the owner right? that they have scouts, agents, coaches who are paid to research and get the data on stuff like this? Yeah yeah everybody is an idiot, except Chelsea fans who think Gary is the best defender in the world.

Never seen any reports about any team after Gary, and he'd be awful at Barca; they need high blocking defenders. (this is an opinion)

Why are you brazilians that blind? I never said Garry is best in world, not even close. But he is still better than Luiz as defender and thats the whole point. No one is saying cahill is best, just that he is better than Luiz.

And I hope you will undertand that part with awesome hair was more of a joke than anything else...

And yes Gary was linked with barca few years ago, i dont mind if you dont believe it...

Price is all about marketing, Luiz is extremely marketable CB and thats why the price was high. The whole thing made Luiz look like a world CB, but he simply isnt that. Anyway Im sure we will find that out soon next year when we see Luiz play weekin week out for Psg. CL stages will be interesting.

[robsblubot 3,595]

Look I like Luiz too, he is funny guy and great person, but Psg paid 50m for Luiz awesome hair, not because he would be great defender.

Pastore went for 40m too. Does that make him a 40m player? Did he pay the price invested? Hazard went for less. Is Pastore a better player than? Was Illara ever worth 40m and therefore better player than Alonso, a player that RM bought "only" 35m?

Money spent on certain player means shit all. It depends on who is the seller, how marketable is player and how stupid the buyer is. It doesnt tell how good certain player is.

I can say that Luiz could be hit in Psg, but he wont justify the 50m, unless he makes 10 goal clearances and scores winning header in CL final for psg.

And with Cahill in defence, we managed to stop Messi, and this year with Cahill in defence we stopped Cavani, Suarez, Chicarito,..players that scored against us when Luiz was playing as CB in previous years.

You keep repeating this absolutely ridiculous statement based on nothing other than your very personal opinion. There is really nothing to discuss about this.

It is indeed widely accepted PSG overpaid for David Luiz. However, by how much? Chelsea priced him at 35m, so of course they overpaid to get him because they had to! Given a choice, DL would prob go to Barca or Bayern.

Now if you think Barca, Bayern, and PSG were after David Luiz because of his hair, that's a again, a pretty fantastic view of the very professional world of football - especially the players market.

The only pundits who don't rate Luiz are English. DL makes "a mistake" and a member of this forum goes on and on how that was a mistake and all. Then Cahill makes a similar "mistake" for England... not a peep... (neither were mistakes to me BTW).

So, I assume you must be surprised how Brazil doesn't seem to concede goals, even though they play with 2 attacking fullbacks and Paulinho in front of him, not to mention glorious QPR GK behind. Ah I forgot it's the perfect 1m83cm giant Thiago Silva who always covers for DL.

OK dude, we shall see. Just don't be surprised if PSG are much stronger next season in the CL, because money does buy quality.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

You keep repeating this absolutely ridiculous statement based on nothing other than your very personal opinion. There is really nothing to discuss about this.

It is indeed widely accepted PSG overpaid for David Luiz. However, by how much? Chelsea priced him at 35m, so of course they overpaid to get him because they had to! Given a choice, DL would prob go to Barca or Bayern.

Now if you think Barca, Bayern, and PSG were after David Luiz because of his hair, that's a again, a pretty fantastic view of the very professional world of football - especially the players market.

The only pundits who don't rate Luiz are English. DL makes "a mistake" and a member of this forum goes on and on how that was a mistake and all. Then Cahill makes a similar "mistake" for England... not a peep... (neither were mistakes to me BTW).

So, I assume you must be surprised how Brazil doesn't seem to concede goals, even though they play with 2 attacking fullbacks and Paulinho in front of him, not to mention glorious QPR GK behind. Ah I forgot it's the perfect 1m83cm giant Thiago Silva who always covers for DL.

OK dude, we shall see. Just don't be surprised if PSG are much stronger next season in the CL, because money does buy quality.

That hair thing went out of control hh, but I remember people were saying how great Psg will be with Lucas and Marquinhos and all, Im sure the story will be the same with Luiz because Blanc isnt the man to push Psg that far. They paid 60m for Cavani just to play him on wing. Yet that duo didnt destroy opponents as predicted. And Luiz wont make their defence much stronger either.

Oh and money buys quality? Yes we got superb quality in Torres for 50m. I completely agree on that. The scouts did realy well on that one. Torres was though to be world class, but he wasnt. Same is with Luiz. Since Leonardo and Carlo left, hey are buying without real plan.

Cahill isnt better player, but a better defender who is more reliable. Nothing else to say.

[robsblubot 3,595]

That hair thing went out of control hh, but I remember people were saying how great Psg will be with Lucas and Marquinhos and all, Im sure the story will be the same with Luiz because Blanc isnt the man to push Psg that far. They paid 60m for Cavani just to play him on wing. Yet that duo didnt destroy opponents as predicted. And Luiz wont make their defence much stronger either.

Oh and money buys quality? Yes we got superb quality in Torres for 50m. I completely agree on that. The scouts did realy well on that one. Torres was though to be world class, but he wasnt. Same is with Luiz. Since Leonardo and Carlo left, hey are buying without real plan.

Cahill isnt better player, but a better defender who is more reliable. Nothing else to say.

We shall see. I think David Luiz is far more proven than any those you mention. Torres is really a completely different subject with very little to do with DL.

Fair enough. Now we finally go into opinions again: to me DL virtues are defensive indeed! The high block he does IS BETTER than a low block! Why? Because in my view, with a good delivery, like the one which allowed Victor to beat Luiz or the one which allowed Balotelli to beat Cahill, the defenders will very often get beaten; that's how goals are scored.

So, if you can stop an attack higher on the pitch, you may be preventing the delivery itself. Again, this is a personal opinion, and some very famous coaches prefer a different approach, ours included. I don't claim to know better; just that there are many ways to win, because I've seen many very different winning sides.

Gary is a good defender. Not world class and I don't see him ever becoming a target for another top club, unless at the end of his contract for ex.

What really concerns me is that we don't have any defender who can play in a high block. Haven't seen Zouma though. Reckon you gotta have the option, even if not your preferred way of playing, for those games where you gotta pressure from the get go.