Depression

[Stingray 9,441]

Ranting makes me feel better, so I'm going to do it.

On another note, I took a nap this morning and woke up as a different person. I feel good, I feel great. Though on the other hand, my mother is worried about me and has booked an appointment with a psychologist. I can't wait to sit in a room to be probed and prodded and then diagnosed a paranoid-schizophrenic narcissistic bipolar type II anorexic psychotic young adult.

I bet my left testicle I'll have to fill out those little questionnaires that try to determine if you are Bipolar or Depressed. The the results will say Bipolar, I'll be recommended to a GP that will say I have Bipolar and then to a Psychiatrist that will think I'm not, they will argue and the Psychiatrist will win. I'll then be put on meds that a gives me acne and transforms me into a zombie that gains weight fast.

People will say it' for my own good, but I'll just be juggled around by a bunch of professionals that are arguing why I'm a crazy bastard and why I should be medicated for the good of the nation.

Then after so much screwing around, I'll lose my shit at Uni or somewhere and put another students head through a computer screen because they accidentally nudged me. Then I'll be kicked out of Uni and fined or some bullshit. Then three years later the exact same thing will happen. People will forget about it all and think I'm a-ok, till the next time it happens.

One HUGE advice. I am dead dead serious here, Spike.

Do NOT let yourself be diagnosed by a psychoanalyst. NOT. Those guys are quaks, frauds without ANY empirical underpinning to their claims. Ask for their theoretical background and eave if it is Frued, Lacan, Jung or any of those guys.

Must read:

http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/steen/cogweb/Debate/SokalFNCh1.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fashionable_Nonsense

http://www.physics.nyu.edu/sokal/dawkins.html

The guys who love math are going to have a fieldday with Lacan's mathematical bullshit.

If you want to see the severity of it .... this is essential. See it in action and weep.

http://www.supportthewall.org/2011/12/watch-the-wall-le-mur-by-sophie-robert/

[Spike 12,049]

One HUGE advice. I am dead dead serious here, Spike.

Do NOT let yourself be diagnosed by a psychoanalyst. NOT. Those guys are quaks, frauds without ANY empirical underpinning to their claims. Ask for their theoretical background and eave if it is Frued, Lacan, Jung or any of those guys.

Must read:

http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/steen/cogweb/Debate/SokalFNCh1.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fashionable_Nonsense

http://www.physics.nyu.edu/sokal/dawkins.html

The guys who love math are going to have a fieldday with Lacan's mathematical bullshit.

If you want to see the severity of it .... this is essential. See it in action and weep.

http://www.supportthewall.org/2011/12/watch-the-wall-le-mur-by-sophie-robert/

What's a pyschoanalyst? A psychiatrist or psychologist? Or something completely different?

I've been to so many different people and doctors, they all think something different.

[Stingray 9,441]

What's a pyschoanalyst? A psychiatrist or psychologist? Or something completely different?

I've been to so many different people and doctors, they all think something different.

They can be both. It is your orientation when training as a psychologist (others train in a more scientific role). after that they continue to med school to become a psychiatrist.

So it is not a title, it is an 'orientation' - school of thought (you also have behaviourists, rogerians, system therapists, cognitive behavioural therapists - those guys can all be psychologists/psychiatrists).

You'll see: if he starts

1. the sofa - run

2. invites you to talk without saying something - run

3. ask about the relation with your mother/father - run

4. Dreams - run

5. Rorschach tests - run

[Spike 12,049]

They can be both. It is your orientation when training as a psychologist (others train in a more scientific role). after that they continue to med school to become a psychiatrist.

So it is not a title, it is an 'orientation' - school of thought (you also have behaviourists, rogerians, system therapists, cognitive behavioural therapists - those guys can all be psychologists/psychiatrists).

You'll see: if he starts

1. the sofa - run

2. invites you to talk without saying something - run

3. ask about the relation with your mother/father - run

4. Dreams - run

5. Rorschach tests - run

So it's a person who thinks they are Freud of Jung?

I've been to a couple that talked about CBT. They were quite friendly and open. Another just asked a lot of question, a lot of them. She was very clinical and cold.

What's your opinion on that?

[Stingray 9,441]

So it's a person who thinks they are Freud of Jung?

I've been to a couple that talked about CBT. They were quite friendly and open. Another just asked a lot of question, a lot of them. She was very clinical and cold.

What's your opinion on that?

CBT is currently the ONLY evidence based intervention. I use it myself when I coach. I'd so go for that. Also, try avoiding meds if you are not feeling out of control.

ps: Ask if they are using evidence based protocols for your intervention. You have a right to do that.

[whatthemata 249]

They can be both. It is your orientation when training as a psychologist (others train in a more scientific role). after that they continue to med school to become a psychiatrist. So it is not a title, it is an 'orientation' - school of thought (you also have behaviourists, rogerians, system therapists, cognitive behavioural therapists - those guys can all be psychologists/psychiatrists). You'll see: if he starts 1. the sofa - run 2. invites you to talk without saying something - run 3. ask about the relation with your mother/father - run 4. Dreams - run 5. Rorschach tests - run

That's very insightful - would you recommend by going to a local GP first?

[SinineUltra 1,170]

What's a pyschoanalyst? A psychiatrist or psychologist? Or something completely different?

I've been to so many different people and doctors, they all think something different.

pyschoanalyst - not so sure about this ,seems like some odd bullshit subject

psychiatrist - basically a doctor who has specialized in mental health and not become a surgeon, pediatrician etc.

psychologist - someone who studied the subject for 3 or so years in uni.

Edit: If you think you need help - seek help. Even Stingray can't give you 100% good answers if he doesn't know you that well.

[Stingray 9,441]

That's very insightful - would you recommend by going to a local GP first?

Depends on your country .... here CBT is organised in a 'center', they are also active in Universitary Hospitals. The quaks are everywhere, really.

I don't know about your strange countries though ...

[Spike 12,049]

CBT is currently the ONLY evidence based intervention. I use it myself when I coach. I'd so go for that. Also, try avoiding meds if you are not feeling out of control.

ps: Ask if they are using evidence based protocols for your intervention. You have a right to do that.

I've done enough CBT, to be honest. It helped on a few fronts; self esteem and self criticism, in particular. To the point where neither are a problem. But here I am still with the same problems, only in different circumstances.

Mood swings have been such a constant problem for me since I was a boy, I'm just getting sick of it. Sometimes, I'm fine for weeks then all of a sudden everything gets hectic for no reason. Just wake up a different person. Like right now, I'm fine, I feel good, but this morning, I was so depressed I couldn't get out of bed. And sometimes, it's vice versa.

I used to be so ashamed of it, but now I'm just sick of it. I'm trying to do anything to help.

[Stingray 9,441]

I've done enough CBT, to be honest. It helped on a few fronts; self esteem and self criticism, in particular. To the point where neither are a problem. But here I am still with the same problems, only in different circumstances.

Mood swings have been such a constant problem for me since I was a boy, I'm just getting sick of it. Sometimes, I'm fine for weeks then all of a sudden everything gets hectic for no reason. Just wake up a different person. Like right now, I'm fine, I feel good, but this morning, I was so depressed I couldn't get out of bed. And sometimes, it's vice versa.

I used to be so ashamed of it, but now I'm just sick of it. I'm trying to do anything to help.

That sounds like a chemical imbalance to me ...

Question is if it is exogenous or endogenous.

Exogenous: triggered by something external (eg.alcohol, weed, emotional events, ...)

Endogenous: genes

Now .... don't take my word for this and find a true specialist

Exogneous: therapy and medication

Endogenous: medication and when that doesn't 'do the job' electroconvulsion therapy (shocks) do help. but this is very controversial due to historical reasons.

[SinineUltra 1,170]

I've done enough CBT, to be honest. It helped on a few fronts; self esteem and self criticism, in particular. To the point where neither are a problem. But here I am still with the same problems, only in different circumstances.

Mood swings have been such a constant problem for me since I was a boy, I'm just getting sick of it. Sometimes, I'm fine for weeks then all of a sudden everything gets hectic for no reason. Just wake up a different person. Like right now, I'm fine, I feel good, but this morning, I was so depressed I couldn't get out of bed. And sometimes, it's vice versa.

I used to be so ashamed of it, but now I'm just sick of it. I'm trying to do anything to help.

Maybe you should channel all that energy by taking up some hobby and focusing on it? Like sports, start going to gym with certain aims, you will feel a lot better about yourself and for a reason.

[Stingray 9,441]

Maybe you should channel all that energy by taking up some hobby and focusing on it? Like sports, start going to gym with certain aims, you will feel a lot better about yourself and for a reason.

True ...

Also, you seem quite ok. Don't fall into the trap over over-interpreting a possible disease. Many do in this (over)medicalised world. You wouldn't call me sane now, would you .... Still, I am eccentric and a bit hyper, but fine.

Then again, I cannot see how you feel sometimes - thats the problem in diagnosis.

[Spike 12,049]

Maybe you should channel all that energy by taking up some hobby and focusing on it? Like sports, start going to gym with certain aims, you will feel a lot better about yourself and for a reason.

Yeah, that doesn't change a thing. Well it does help but never in the long term.

That sounds like a chemical imbalance to me ...

Question is if it is exogenous or endogenous.

Exogenous: triggered by something external (eg.alcohol, weed, emotional events, ...)

Endogenous: genes

Now .... don't take my word for this and find a true specialist

Exogneous: therapy and medication

Endogenous: medication and when that doesn't 'do the job' electroconvulsion therapy (shocks) do help. but this is very controversial due to historical reasons.

It's probably a mix of both. My father isn't exactly the most stable or normal person. And I've been through a couple traumatic things... and I've had a few complete breakdowns in the past. The worst when I was 16.

True ...

Also, you seem quite ok. Don't fall into the trap over over-interpreting a possible disease. Many do in this (over)medicalised world. You wouldn't call me sane now, would you .... Still, I am eccentric and a bit hyper, but fine.

Then again, I cannot see how you feel sometimes - thats the problem in diagnosis.

I don't know what the problem is or even if there is a problem. Sometimes there isn't a problem, it's like the problem was never there in the first place. And I feel good, confident, happy. But then next the thing I know I'm the opposite, nervous, paranoid, sad and uncomfortable and it feels like it's always been that way. Maybe everyone goes through this, I wouldn't know as this is the only thing I've ever known. Now I'm getting paranoid about it, what if there is no problem and I just think there is? What if I'm fine?

I used to keep a mood journal when I was in High School, when I started expecting that something wasn't quite right. Going back and reading it, I can't remember any of it. Why I wrote it or why I felt that way. It's like someone else wrote it, but I know it's my thoughts. Sometimes it was written quite nicely and some times it was almost indecipherable.

[SinineUltra 1,170]

Yeah, that doesn't change a thing. Well it does help but never in the long term.

I edited my post a bit, maybe it will clarify a bit why I think it will help you a lot.

[Stingray 9,441]

Yeah, that doesn't change a thing. Well it does help but never in the long term.

It's probably a mix of both. My father isn't exactly the most stable or normal person. And I've been through a couple traumatic things... and I've had a few complete breakdowns in the past. The worst when I was 16.

I don't know what the problem is or even if there is a problem. Sometimes there isn't a problem, it's like the problem was never there in the first place. And I feel good, confident, happy. But then next the thing I know I'm the opposite, nervous, paranoid, sad and uncomfortable and it feels like it's always been that way. Maybe everyone goes through this, I wouldn't know as this is the only thing I've ever known. Now I'm getting paranoid about it, what if there is no problem and I just think there is? What if I'm fine?

I used to keep a mood journal when I was in High School, when I started expecting that something wasn't quite right. Going back and reading it, I can't remember any of it. Why I wrote it or why I felt that way. It's like someone else wrote it, but I know it's my thoughts. Sometimes it was written quite nicely and some times it was almost indecipherable.

Everyone has those moments in which you read something from before it seems completely alien. I have that as well.

Also, those mood swings: everyone has them. It is th intensity in which you have them that count. If it makes YOU FEEL like you cannot handle it anymore, like it is taking over your life and prevents you from functioning in a semi-normal way .... that's the cue to get help.

Trust me - people with a full blown problem do NOT sound like you - even on a forum. On a personal note: I had very traumatic experiences as a kid. It isn't until I had a steady partner that everything started to pan out for me. Some people - like me - need the stability of a (mature!!) relationship to move on - to heal.

This sounds soft - but its true. Also , having children brings a lot of that old shit back ....

Pm me when you feel shite. Let's see how you sound then, ok mate?

[manpe 10,861]

Do you mean legally or is your question "Are humans physically capable of committing suicide without a mental disorder"?

Screw the laws, my question is simple - is a human being capable of taking its life while suffering from no diseases/disorders mental or physical without being pushed or manipulated to do so. Was my question really so vague? Simply put - can a happy healthy person kill him/herself? Like a person thinks "why the hell not" and jumps into a gigantic meat grinder.

But I got some good answers, thanks.

[BluesChick 1,260]

Do you mean legally or is your question "Are humans physically capable of committing suicide without a mental disorder"?

Screw the laws, my question is simple - is a human being capable of taking its life while suffering from no diseases/disorders mental or physical without being pushed or manipulated to do so. Was my question really so vague? Simply put - can a happy healthy person kill him/herself? Like a person thinks "why the hell not" and jumps into a gigantic meat grinder.

But I got some good answers, thanks.

Yes, I think that it is quite possible that a person can say exactly that while standing on a cliff or the edge of a building. Or in the case of my dumb country, with a gun in hand contemplate how it would be done. Then in a split second take that final step with out stopping to really think about the consequences or the fact they really don't want to die.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Stingray 9,441]

Screw the laws, my question is simple - is a human being capable of taking its life while suffering from no diseases/disorders mental or physical without being pushed or manipulated to do so. Was my question really so vague? Simply put - can a happy healthy person kill him/herself? Like a person thinks "why the hell not" and jumps into a gigantic meat grinder.

But I got some good answers, thanks.

Well Manpe, that is because it is a tautological question. They are impossible to answer, just like the question: what is more northern than the North Pole?

It is so difficult to anwer because being 'normal' is a normative, subjective question. We define being normal by the populations 'norm' and those people don't commit suicide. So .... No but people who do can still be at the outer edges of the 'normal' Gauss curve. Also, when they do commit suicide - even being normal, the act in itself would make them abnormal in the normative sense. Do yo feel the dilemma coming? Once you start to think about it, you cannot get out of it.

Got another one I used to use in class:

Can an omnipotent (all powerfull) God create a stone he cannot lift. Enjoy getting out of that one :-)

[Strike 7,492]

What's a pyschoanalyst? A psychiatrist or psychologist? Or something completely different?

I've been to so many different people and doctors, they all think something different.

Is it useful though? Has it in any way helped with your issue?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Screw the laws, my question is simple - is a human being capable of taking its life while suffering from no diseases/disorders mental or physical without being pushed or manipulated to do so. Was my question really so vague? Simply put - can a happy healthy person kill him/herself? Like a person thinks "why the hell not" and jumps into a gigantic meat grinder.

But I got some good answers, thanks.

Actually I understood your question the first time I read it, but the answers were what threw me off

To try and give you a more 'practical' answer, yes, a human being can commit suicide without suffering of any of the humanly known mental illnesses. An example of that is the guy I mentioned in my previous post (which Tom has completely ignored me and has not told me what he makes of that ).

But like Tome said, committing suicide is not 'normal' (usually), so even if the person killing himself was normal, the act itself would make him abnormal. I guess you can say that he is normal up until he commits suicide!

Can an omnipotent (all powerfull) God create a stone he cannot lift. Enjoy getting out of that one :-)

Good ol' omnipotence paradox? No worries, Kant has got the answer for you!