Depression

[Stingray 9,441]

Is it possible for a human to commit voluntary suicide without suffering from depression or any other form of mental disorder?

Yes, It is legal here and it happens. In serious pain and incurable, terminal condition. It gets judged by multiple doctors, an ethical committee, family and of course the person itself (which is the main goal - autonomy of an individual in such a crucial stage of life).

Palliative sedation, is more and more considered to be the pure choice of a doctor governed regularly by economical factors- without consent from a patient - which we (belgium) deem more and more unethical.

So yes - and it is not at all odd actually. Humane - very much.

[manpe 10,861]

Yep, as far as I know in Switzerland, in the Dignitas hospital. You have to suffer from a incurable disease though.

Yes, It is legal here and it happens. In serious pain and incurable, terminal condition. It gets judged by multiple doctors, an ethical committee, family and of course the person itself (which is the main goal - autonomy of an individual in such a crucial stage of life).

Palliative sedation, is more and more considered to be the pure choice of a doctor governed regularly by economical factors- without consent from a patient - which we (belgium) deem more and more unethical.

So yes - and it is not at all odd actually. Humane - very much.

I'm not talking about euthanasia, I'm asking whether a person is capable of committing suicide without actually suffering from anything.

[Stingray 9,441]

I'm not talking about euthanasia, I'm asking whether a person is capable of committing suicide without actually suffering from anything.

And how would you call someone that chooses to die like that: you said without suffering from depression or any other form of mental disorder. not without suffering from anything

Big difference, dude.

[manpe 10,861]

And how would you call someone that chooses to die like that: you said without suffering from depression or any other form of mental disorder. not without suffering from anything

Big difference, dude.

Let's put it this way - if the person is completely healthy physically and mentally.

[dumps 284]

Let's put it this way - if the person is completely healthy physically and mentally.

depends on whos defining healthy or mentally ill.

i would say that personally you would have to be a sufferer of a mental illness to commit suicide simply because it goes against natural and logical instincts.

but who is to say what's normal? we all have a different perception of what's normal and what's not.

so my answer is purely based on my views. some people may think the logical answer is suicide. what's the point in having something you cant keep? i.e. why live when you're going to die anyway.

deep man, real deep.

[yuvala 2,167]

respect Steve..

[BluesChick 1,260]

I'm not talking about euthanasia, I'm asking whether a person is capable of committing suicide without actually suffering from anything.[/qoute]

The only thing I can think of is someone who is attention seeking (ie has borderline personality disorder, those folks that cut themselves with no serious intent to kill themselves]. They aren't depressed they just desperately want someone to "see" them and often their attempts escalate because those around them stop paying attention to the little cuts. When I worked the suicide hot line the bulk of the people I spoke with fit this category, thankfully all they wanted was to talk so each night they'd call and talk to me for a while because they knew I'd not only listen but actually engage in the conversation.

The other instance I can think of is someone who is trying to manipulate someone else and realizes threatening to kill themselves is the ultimate power over the other person. They are not sane necessarily but they take their manipulation past the point of no return.

Of course Tom, could and will probably correct all that I just said.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Yeboii 1,844]

Is it possible for a human to commit voluntary suicide without suffering from depression or any other form of mental disorder?

Yes

[Strike 7,217]

I'm not talking about euthanasia, I'm asking whether a person is capable of committing suicide without actually suffering from anything.

you can't really say can you? Some volatile people may commit suicide without much hint of depression. For eg, there is a place near my hometown called 'Suicide Point' and as you might have guessed, it is a cliff which got it's name due to ugly incidents over the years. there have been lots of cases where people have committed suicide simply because opportunity has presented itself and I say that because the victim's family/friends had no idea about any depression in many of the cases. Ofcourse the families maybe lying or completely clueless but I knew a person in University who committed suicide there for no reason. He was fine having no depression problems on the surface. Probably some kind of problem like money or love may have instigated it but who can really say what one thinks before committing suicide? Sometimes there may be no reason to it and the victim just wants to get it over with on a whim?

[Stingray 9,441]

There were instances though:

1. eg Camus (philosopher) claimed that asking the question: why should i not commit suicide is the only fundamental philosophical question. Those guys back then were going on about the absurdity of life (existentialism it is called).

2. The romantic period (Goethe eg.) that , well, romanticised suicide and suffering.

3. Cults that commit suicide collectively (some a little more forced than others)

These schools of thought had an impact an led to voluntary suicides. Of course ..... This was really pretty much mass hysteria and copycat behaviour .....

[Spike 12,049]

Ranting makes me feel better, so I'm going to do it.

On another note, I took a nap this morning and woke up as a different person. I feel good, I feel great. Though on the other hand, my mother is worried about me and has booked an appointment with a psychologist. I can't wait to sit in a room to be probed and prodded and then diagnosed a paranoid-schizophrenic narcissistic bipolar type II anorexic psychotic young adult.

I bet my left testicle I'll have to fill out those little questionnaires that try to determine if you are Bipolar or Depressed. The the results will say Bipolar, I'll be recommended to a GP that will say I have Bipolar and then to a Psychiatrist that will think I'm not, they will argue and the Psychiatrist will win. I'll then be put on meds that a gives me acne and transforms me into a zombie that gains weight fast.

People will say it' for my own good, but I'll just be juggled around by a bunch of professionals that are arguing why I'm a crazy bastard and why I should be medicated for the good of the nation.

Then after so much screwing around, I'll lose my shit at Uni or somewhere and put another students head through a computer screen because they accidentally nudged me. Then I'll be kicked out of Uni and fined or some bullshit. Then three years later the exact same thing will happen. People will forget about it all and think I'm a-ok, till the next time it happens.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Is it possible for a human to commit voluntary suicide without suffering from depression or any other form of mental disorder?

Do you mean legally or is your question "Are humans physically capable of committing suicide without a mental disorder"?

I don't think that only people with mental disorder can commit suicide. If you have time to read, download this: http://www.suicidenote.info/

It's a book in which a perfectly happy 35 year-old person with a bachelor in psychology attempts to explain why suicide is the only thing that makes sense. That is called nihilism

Btw, I'm curious of what @Stingray makes of that. The arguments against Nihilism were never 'logical' but rather 'moral' or 'practical'. Personally, I can't really argue with much of what Michael (the 35yo) wrote.

PS: If you are depressed or have any suicidal inclinations atm, DO NOT read that book.

[Stingray 9,441]

Ranting makes me feel better, so I'm going to do it.

On another note, I took a nap this morning and woke up as a different person. I feel good, I feel great. Though on the other hand, my mother is worried about me and has booked an appointment with a psychologist. I can't wait to sit in a room to be probed and prodded and then diagnosed a paranoid-schizophrenic narcissistic bipolar type II anorexic psychotic young adult.

I bet my left testicle I'll have to fill out those little questionnaires that try to determine if you are Bipolar or Depressed. The the results will say Bipolar, I'll be recommended to a GP that will say I have Bipolar and then to a Psychiatrist that will think I'm not, they will argue and the Psychiatrist will win. I'll then be put on meds that a gives me acne and transforms me into a zombie that gains weight fast.

People will say it' for my own good, but I'll just be juggled around by a bunch of professionals that are arguing why I'm a crazy bastard and why I should be medicated for the good of the nation.

Then after so much screwing around, I'll lose my shit at Uni or somewhere and put another students head through a computer screen because they accidentally nudged me. Then I'll be kicked out of Uni and fined or some bullshit. Then three years later the exact same thing will happen. People will forget about it all and think I'm a-ok, till the next time it happens.

One HUGE advice. I am dead dead serious here, Spike.

Do NOT let yourself be diagnosed by a psychoanalyst. NOT. Those guys are quaks, frauds without ANY empirical underpinning to their claims. Ask for their theoretical background and eave if it is Frued, Lacan, Jung or any of those guys.

Must read:

http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/steen/cogweb/Debate/SokalFNCh1.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fashionable_Nonsense

http://www.physics.nyu.edu/sokal/dawkins.html

The guys who love math are going to have a fieldday with Lacan's mathematical bullshit.

If you want to see the severity of it .... this is essential. See it in action and weep.

http://www.supportthewall.org/2011/12/watch-the-wall-le-mur-by-sophie-robert/

[Spike 12,049]

One HUGE advice. I am dead dead serious here, Spike.

Do NOT let yourself be diagnosed by a psychoanalyst. NOT. Those guys are quaks, frauds without ANY empirical underpinning to their claims. Ask for their theoretical background and eave if it is Frued, Lacan, Jung or any of those guys.

Must read:

http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/steen/cogweb/Debate/SokalFNCh1.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fashionable_Nonsense

http://www.physics.nyu.edu/sokal/dawkins.html

The guys who love math are going to have a fieldday with Lacan's mathematical bullshit.

If you want to see the severity of it .... this is essential. See it in action and weep.

http://www.supportthewall.org/2011/12/watch-the-wall-le-mur-by-sophie-robert/

What's a pyschoanalyst? A psychiatrist or psychologist? Or something completely different?

I've been to so many different people and doctors, they all think something different.

[Stingray 9,441]

What's a pyschoanalyst? A psychiatrist or psychologist? Or something completely different?

I've been to so many different people and doctors, they all think something different.

They can be both. It is your orientation when training as a psychologist (others train in a more scientific role). after that they continue to med school to become a psychiatrist.

So it is not a title, it is an 'orientation' - school of thought (you also have behaviourists, rogerians, system therapists, cognitive behavioural therapists - those guys can all be psychologists/psychiatrists).

You'll see: if he starts

1. the sofa - run

2. invites you to talk without saying something - run

3. ask about the relation with your mother/father - run

4. Dreams - run

5. Rorschach tests - run

[Spike 12,049]

They can be both. It is your orientation when training as a psychologist (others train in a more scientific role). after that they continue to med school to become a psychiatrist.

So it is not a title, it is an 'orientation' - school of thought (you also have behaviourists, rogerians, system therapists, cognitive behavioural therapists - those guys can all be psychologists/psychiatrists).

You'll see: if he starts

1. the sofa - run

2. invites you to talk without saying something - run

3. ask about the relation with your mother/father - run

4. Dreams - run

5. Rorschach tests - run

So it's a person who thinks they are Freud of Jung?

I've been to a couple that talked about CBT. They were quite friendly and open. Another just asked a lot of question, a lot of them. She was very clinical and cold.

What's your opinion on that?

[Stingray 9,441]

So it's a person who thinks they are Freud of Jung?

I've been to a couple that talked about CBT. They were quite friendly and open. Another just asked a lot of question, a lot of them. She was very clinical and cold.

What's your opinion on that?

CBT is currently the ONLY evidence based intervention. I use it myself when I coach. I'd so go for that. Also, try avoiding meds if you are not feeling out of control.

ps: Ask if they are using evidence based protocols for your intervention. You have a right to do that.

[whatthemata 249]

They can be both. It is your orientation when training as a psychologist (others train in a more scientific role). after that they continue to med school to become a psychiatrist. So it is not a title, it is an 'orientation' - school of thought (you also have behaviourists, rogerians, system therapists, cognitive behavioural therapists - those guys can all be psychologists/psychiatrists). You'll see: if he starts 1. the sofa - run 2. invites you to talk without saying something - run 3. ask about the relation with your mother/father - run 4. Dreams - run 5. Rorschach tests - run

That's very insightful - would you recommend by going to a local GP first?