The midfield puzzle

[nadavTKL 1,787]

Tbh in all fairness Sturridge is not a winger so why would we play him out of position, wasting his ability, when at Bolton he was clearly more effective down the middle,

Im not 100% sure he's a winger either, but AVB played him this way in pre-season and he was our best player.

Ferguson quotes... dear god. Do we have any respect for ourselves or it all just gone?

[eldo 868]

FFS Josh is just 18. He should play to grow as a player, not to carry Chelsea on his shoulders.

[Madmax 9,219]

FFS Josh is just 18. He should play to grow as a player, not to carry Chelsea on his shoulders.

Is that directed at my post?

[eldo 868]

Is that directed at my post?

No. But I can comment on that

Josh was indentified as a potential, that's why he made his debut at 17. And we are developing him now.

When has Shrek become Utd's most important player?

But if I comment on that. Josh got his debut when he was 17

[Madmax 9,219]

No. But I can comment on that

Josh was indentified as a potential, that's why he made his debut at 17. And we are developing him now.

When has Shrek become Utd's most important player?

But if I comment on that. Josh got his debut when he was 17

Okay, going off topic, but still.

1. How are we developing Josh by sitting him on the bench? I don't think anyone has asked for him to completely replace Lampard, but surely you must agree that when Lampard underperforms in matches then it would make sense to introduce Josh during the latter stages.

2. We are not asking for Josh to be made 'the most important player' so the Rooney comparison makes no sense.

3. Handing a debut is all well and good, but once potential has been identified, you need to nurture it. Are we really doing that right now?

[eldo 868]

Okay, going off topic, but still.

1. How are we developing Josh by sitting him on the bench? I don't think anyone has asked for him to completely replace Lampard, but surely you must agree that when Lampard underperforms in matches then it would make sense to introduce Josh during the latter stages.

2. We are not asking for Josh to be made 'the most important player' so the Rooney comparison makes no sense.

3. Handing a debut is all well and good, but once potential has been identified, you need to nurture it. Are we really doing that right now?

It's only start of the season, third game actually.

Andre said that he will now start with rotation.

[Styles 9,790]

FFS Josh is just 18. He should play to grow as a player, not to carry Chelsea on his shoulders.

I agree but the sad thing is there is no player to bridge the gap between Lampard and McEachran. Lampard is just painful to watch now, he adds nothing unless there is a set-piece to take. Just wandering around slowly knocking the ball sideways. Even in todays chaos you wanted somebody to just get the ball and hold it and dictate the tempo for a bit but he was nowhere.

[BLionheart 516]

It's incredible what mata , silva and spanish players do , they pass , move , make themselves available and do on . that is why they are a great creative unit .

Our problem is not Lampard , it's Ramires-Mikel in the same midfield , 2 shy players in footballing terms , 2 players who will not always make themselves there for the pass , and that makes Lampard struggle.

You can see the improvement in frank's game once mata was introduced , The answer to our midfield is simple :

Mikel/Essien/Rami

Modric/Moutinho Lamps/Josh

I would love to watch a full game of ramires playing the DM role of mikel , i think he will be a lot better than Obi as he is much better defensively and offensively , May be Mikel is more assured and is a better passer but Ramires's drive and pace will make up for that .

[Tomo 21,751]

I think we are being a bit harsh on Andre with his team selections.

There is one reason he is playing Lamps and no its not because he is too scared to drop him its because none of our other CM have as much attacking instints bar Josh (who is too young to be carrying Chelsea, had we been in more comftable situations i would have bet my backside he would have got gametime) which is why Lamps has been playing. We cannot throw Josh into situations like drawing with 20 mins to go str8 off, we did it at Villa Park last season and he nearly lost the game for us (imagine how much that would have set him back).

He has dropped Drogba for 2 of the 3 matches, so that alone proves he is not scared to drop players as Drogba is probally the guy with the biggest ego, he dropped Malouda after a shite display at Stoke and he hauled Kalou off after half a hour and didn't even have him on the bench today so that surely says something?

Malouda had a poor game at Stoke and was dropped, Kalou was hauled off after half a hour, Alex had a poor game against WBA and was dropped the only reason Lamps has not been is because off the reason i gave above.

Andre has made changes between and during matches that (as much as i love Carlo) Carlo never seemed to do as much. Today Andre put Josh and Lukaku on the bench you could bet your bottom dollar Carlo would have put Yossi and Kalou there and put it to expierence. So i think the critism he is getting right now is extremely harsh to say the least. Remember Jose's opening premier league games? we were shite and grinding our results till mid October then we took off, don't be suprised to see something similar this time.

[warnie_666 1,081]

This quote from Ferguson sums up all about Josh -

"I had a player once who said to me that Rooney and [Cristiano] Ronaldo weren't good enough and he was not prepared to wait until they were good enough. But that's the trouble with potential. People don't identify potential. They're very poor at it. I've identified all my life the potential in young people. I know potential. I know how to develop and have faith in it. And young people surprise you when given the opportunity. That's what this club is all about."

Was that Roy Keane? I remember this and that player quit the club over the transition phase when Fergie was playing "kids"

[warnie_666 1,081]

Okay, going off topic, but still.

1. How are we developing Josh by sitting him on the bench? I don't think anyone has asked for him to completely replace Lampard, but surely you must agree that when Lampard underperforms in matches then it would make sense to introduce Josh during the latter stages.

2. We are not asking for Josh to be made 'the most important player' so the Rooney comparison makes no sense.

3. Handing a debut is all well and good, but once potential has been identified, you need to nurture it. Are we really doing that right now?

I agree. I would be mad if AVB benches Josh as Josh currently needs playing time on the pitch and not warn the bench and lose confidence. He should be on loan as far as im concerned.

[warnie_666 1,081]

Basically, Lampard stays.

Lampard always had to stay. We cannot sell him. But yes, bench him and use him sparingly. Remember, they said Giggs was passed it and should be sold when Man Utd won fuck all for 3 seasons and then we all know how Giggs turned out.

Lampard has lost form and we should make sure that he is benched so that he knows he is not an untouchable and that he strives to regain his form.

[bababoom 4,478]

AVB has said that he wants another midfielder, so if we get one will Lampard get dropped? i doubt it. But we'll see. Also i still don't know why Lampard takes Free kicks, they are just awful, they either hit the wall, or goes over the bar. I remember a couple years ago when he used to score free kicks for fun, wonder what happened.

[Madmax 9,219]

Was that Roy Keane? I remember this and that player quit the club over the transition phase when Fergie was playing "kids"

Dunno, Ferguson displayed enough class to not name the player in question.

It's incredible what mata , silva and spanish players do , they pass , move , make themselves available and do on . that is why they are a great creative unit .

Our problem is not Lampard , it's Ramires-Mikel in the same midfield , 2 shy players in footballing terms , 2 players who will not always make themselves there for the pass , and that makes Lampard struggle.

You can see the improvement in frank's game once mata was introduced , The answer to our midfield is simple :

Mikel/Essien/Rami

Modric/Moutinho Lamps/Josh

I would love to watch a full game of ramires playing the DM role of mikel , i think he will be a lot better than Obi as he is much better defensively and offensively , May be Mikel is more assured and is a better passer but Ramires's drive and pace will make up for that .

Interesting. I agree with your point about Mikel and Rambo. I'd like us to try out something along these lines ...

X

X----X---X----X

Ramires/Mikel --- Lampard/Josh

X ---------Yossi/Josh/*--------------X

X

* = Modric/Moutinho if they sign, else Mata

There is one reason he is playing Lamps and no its not because he is too scared to drop him its because none of our other CM have as much attacking instints bar Josh (who is too young to be carrying Chelsea, had we been in more comftable situations i would have bet my backside he would have got gametime) which is why Lamps has been playing. We cannot throw Josh into situations like drawing with 20 mins to go str8 off, we did it at Villa Park last season and he nearly lost the game for us (imagine how much that would have set him back).

He has dropped Drogba for 2 of the 3 matches, so that alone proves he is not scared to drop players as Drogba is probally the guy with the biggest ego, he dropped Malouda after a shite display at Stoke and he hauled Kalou off after half a hour and didn't even have him on the bench today so that surely says something?

Malouda had a poor game at Stoke and was dropped, Kalou was hauled off after half a hour, Alex had a poor game against WBA and was dropped the only reason Lamps has not been is because off the reason i gave above.

Andre has made changes between and during matches that (as much as i love Carlo) Carlo never seemed to do as much. Today Andre put Josh and Lukaku on the bench you could bet your bottom dollar Carlo would have put Yossi and Kalou there and put it to expierence. So i think the critism he is getting right now is extremely harsh to say the least. Remember Jose's opening premier league games? we were shite and grinding our results till mid October then we took off, don't be suprised to see something similar this time.

Good post. You raise some fair points there.

[Guest justin_3d]

^Will the mid improve with Romeu?

From what i saw from him in that youth tournament, he looked like having good vision of passing.

I would like to see Mikel have a rest for the next game and put Romeu.

Sunderland is good, but is not very physical team, and i think Romeu might suit that game