The midfield puzzle

[warnie_666 1,081]

Okay, going off topic, but still.

1. How are we developing Josh by sitting him on the bench? I don't think anyone has asked for him to completely replace Lampard, but surely you must agree that when Lampard underperforms in matches then it would make sense to introduce Josh during the latter stages.

2. We are not asking for Josh to be made 'the most important player' so the Rooney comparison makes no sense.

3. Handing a debut is all well and good, but once potential has been identified, you need to nurture it. Are we really doing that right now?

I agree. I would be mad if AVB benches Josh as Josh currently needs playing time on the pitch and not warn the bench and lose confidence. He should be on loan as far as im concerned.

[warnie_666 1,081]

Basically, Lampard stays.

Lampard always had to stay. We cannot sell him. But yes, bench him and use him sparingly. Remember, they said Giggs was passed it and should be sold when Man Utd won fuck all for 3 seasons and then we all know how Giggs turned out.

Lampard has lost form and we should make sure that he is benched so that he knows he is not an untouchable and that he strives to regain his form.

[bababoom 4,478]

AVB has said that he wants another midfielder, so if we get one will Lampard get dropped? i doubt it. But we'll see. Also i still don't know why Lampard takes Free kicks, they are just awful, they either hit the wall, or goes over the bar. I remember a couple years ago when he used to score free kicks for fun, wonder what happened.

[Madmax 9,219]

Was that Roy Keane? I remember this and that player quit the club over the transition phase when Fergie was playing "kids"

Dunno, Ferguson displayed enough class to not name the player in question.

It's incredible what mata , silva and spanish players do , they pass , move , make themselves available and do on . that is why they are a great creative unit .

Our problem is not Lampard , it's Ramires-Mikel in the same midfield , 2 shy players in footballing terms , 2 players who will not always make themselves there for the pass , and that makes Lampard struggle.

You can see the improvement in frank's game once mata was introduced , The answer to our midfield is simple :

Mikel/Essien/Rami

Modric/Moutinho Lamps/Josh

I would love to watch a full game of ramires playing the DM role of mikel , i think he will be a lot better than Obi as he is much better defensively and offensively , May be Mikel is more assured and is a better passer but Ramires's drive and pace will make up for that .

Interesting. I agree with your point about Mikel and Rambo. I'd like us to try out something along these lines ...

X

X----X---X----X

Ramires/Mikel --- Lampard/Josh

X ---------Yossi/Josh/*--------------X

X

* = Modric/Moutinho if they sign, else Mata

There is one reason he is playing Lamps and no its not because he is too scared to drop him its because none of our other CM have as much attacking instints bar Josh (who is too young to be carrying Chelsea, had we been in more comftable situations i would have bet my backside he would have got gametime) which is why Lamps has been playing. We cannot throw Josh into situations like drawing with 20 mins to go str8 off, we did it at Villa Park last season and he nearly lost the game for us (imagine how much that would have set him back).

He has dropped Drogba for 2 of the 3 matches, so that alone proves he is not scared to drop players as Drogba is probally the guy with the biggest ego, he dropped Malouda after a shite display at Stoke and he hauled Kalou off after half a hour and didn't even have him on the bench today so that surely says something?

Malouda had a poor game at Stoke and was dropped, Kalou was hauled off after half a hour, Alex had a poor game against WBA and was dropped the only reason Lamps has not been is because off the reason i gave above.

Andre has made changes between and during matches that (as much as i love Carlo) Carlo never seemed to do as much. Today Andre put Josh and Lukaku on the bench you could bet your bottom dollar Carlo would have put Yossi and Kalou there and put it to expierence. So i think the critism he is getting right now is extremely harsh to say the least. Remember Jose's opening premier league games? we were shite and grinding our results till mid October then we took off, don't be suprised to see something similar this time.

Good post. You raise some fair points there.

[Guest justin_3d]

^Will the mid improve with Romeu?

From what i saw from him in that youth tournament, he looked like having good vision of passing.

I would like to see Mikel have a rest for the next game and put Romeu.

Sunderland is good, but is not very physical team, and i think Romeu might suit that game

[tnchelsea 79]

We all know Lampard is a guaranteed starter, we need to stop relying on him and give Josh a chance. No disrespect to Lampard but he is the first choice penalty kick taker, hence why his goals scoring record is so high.

[lionsden 4,689]

Most people agree that

1. Our midfield is the weakest it has ever been since Roman took over the club. It lacks creativity and fluidity.

2.Lampard is on a downward slope and can no longer deliver brilliant/decent and consistent performance.

3. Early signs (this season so far) are not positive regarding youth development at the club as it has been for the past 7 years

Now the important question is what are we currently doing to address all these issues.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

It's incredible what mata , silva and spanish players do , they pass , move , make themselves available and do on . that is why they are a great creative unit .

Our problem is not Lampard , it's Ramires-Mikel in the same midfield , 2 shy players in footballing terms , 2 players who will not always make themselves there for the pass , and that makes Lampard struggle.

You can see the improvement in frank's game once mata was introduced , The answer to our midfield is simple :

Mikel/Essien/Rami

Modric/Moutinho Lamps/Josh

I would love to watch a full game of ramires playing the DM role of mikel , i think he will be a lot better than Obi as he is much better defensively and offensively , May be Mikel is more assured and is a better passer but Ramires's drive and pace will make up for that .

This, This and This.

Agree with every word, said this stuff for such a long time and after todays game it was obvious to me even more.

[warnie_666 1,081]

Spain is the New Brazil of Football. Try and get in more Spanish players....

[ZanSnake 1,211]

Javi Martinez or something of his mould has to come in.

Watching Lampard taking free-kicks is like getting kick in the nuts! Hurts like hell, and has a longing effect.

[Blue Armour 4,468]

And i cant see how it made you laugh...

Can't you see my member title?

[Joker10 946]

It's incredible what mata , silva and spanish players do , they pass , move , make themselves available and do on . that is why they are a great creative unit .

Our problem is not Lampard , it's Ramires-Mikel in the same midfield , 2 shy players in footballing terms , 2 players who will not always make themselves there for the pass , and that makes Lampard struggle.

You can see the improvement in frank's game once mata was introduced , The answer to our midfield is simple :

Mikel/Essien/Rami

Modric/Moutinho Lamps/Josh

I would love to watch a full game of ramires playing the DM role of mikel , i think he will be a lot better than Obi as he is much better defensively and offensively , May be Mikel is more assured and is a better passer but Ramires's drive and pace will make up for that .

I agree with this, except the last two lines.

I rate Mikel and Ramires Individually but collectively they are awful, good players but suited for different styles of football. Mikel is perfect for possession style of football like Arsenal or Barca famously. Where he can work to his biggest strengths which is his passing and his ability to protect the back four and alow the fullbacks to venture forth. A DM like Mikel is valuable for this style of football because it makes them less vulnerable against counter attacks.

Ramires style is more direct and suited for teams who utilitzes in quick passing. He needs to play alongside a deep-lying playmaker like Xabi, Pirlo, schweinsteiger, etc. midfielders that can attack and defend. Ramires without playing alongside a complete MF wont work as DM because we will be vulnerable defensively because he isn't disciplined enough as a DM. If anyone watched Copa America would have noticed this. He was argubaly Brazil worst player on the pitch when he was deployed as holding midfielder his passing is not good enough too many misplaced passes. He played better when he was playing alongside Lucas( Very similar to Mikel style), but Brazil lacked creativity when they were both on the pitch. kinda similar to our problem.

So in short drop one of Mikel or Ramires, both are fine players but together create a dysfunctional midfield.

[sodasys 40]

Our Midfield lacks creativity and dynamism ..

The only one who can provide both is modric

[rubidoux 4]

I think we are being a bit harsh on Andre with his team selections.

There is one reason he is playing Lamps and no its not because he is too scared to drop him its because none of our other CM have as much attacking instints bar Josh (who is too young to be carrying Chelsea, had we been in more comftable situations i would have bet my backside he would have got gametime) which is why Lamps has been playing. We cannot throw Josh into situations like drawing with 20 mins to go str8 off, we did it at Villa Park last season and he nearly lost the game for us (imagine how much that would have set him back).

He has dropped Drogba for 2 of the 3 matches, so that alone proves he is not scared to drop players as Drogba is probally the guy with the biggest ego, he dropped Malouda after a shite display at Stoke and he hauled Kalou off after half a hour and didn't even have him on the bench today so that surely says something?

Malouda had a poor game at Stoke and was dropped, Kalou was hauled off after half a hour, Alex had a poor game against WBA and was dropped the only reason Lamps has not been is because off the reason i gave above.

Andre has made changes between and during matches that (as much as i love Carlo) Carlo never seemed to do as much. Today Andre put Josh and Lukaku on the bench you could bet your bottom dollar Carlo would have put Yossi and Kalou there and put it to expierence. So i think the critism he is getting right now is extremely harsh to say the least. Remember Jose's opening premier league games? we were shite and grinding our results till mid October then we took off, don't be suprised to see something similar this time.

I totally agree. Andre seems to know what he is doing and who is under performing and I think he would take Lamps off if there was a viable replacement (As Tomo-91 said). Once this team finds their stride (which I'm confident they will) Chelsea will be a force to be reckoned with!

[eldo 868]

Josh will get enough games this season!

[Beast 85]

I think we are being a bit harsh on Andre with his team selections.

There is one reason he is playing Lamps and no its not because he is too scared to drop him its because none of our other CM have as much attacking instints bar Josh (who is too young to be carrying Chelsea, had we been in more comftable situations i would have bet my backside he would have got gametime) which is why Lamps has been playing. We cannot throw Josh into situations like drawing with 20 mins to go str8 off, we did it at Villa Park last season and he nearly lost the game for us (imagine how much that would have set him back).

He has dropped Drogba for 2 of the 3 matches, so that alone proves he is not scared to drop players as Drogba is probally the guy with the biggest ego, he dropped Malouda after a shite display at Stoke and he hauled Kalou off after half a hour and didn't even have him on the bench today so that surely says something?

Malouda had a poor game at Stoke and was dropped, Kalou was hauled off after half a hour, Alex had a poor game against WBA and was dropped the only reason Lamps has not been is because off the reason i gave above.

Andre has made changes between and during matches that (as much as i love Carlo) Carlo never seemed to do as much. Today Andre put Josh and Lukaku on the bench you could bet your bottom dollar Carlo would have put Yossi and Kalou there and put it to expierence. So i think the critism he is getting right now is extremely harsh to say the least. Remember Jose's opening premier league games? we were shite and grinding our results till mid October then we took off, don't be suprised to see something similar this time.

Probably the best post i've seen on TalkChelsea.

[Blue Armour 4,468]

I think we are being a bit harsh on Andre with his team selections.

There is one reason he is playing Lamps and no its not because he is too scared to drop him its because none of our other CM have as much attacking instints bar Josh (who is too young to be carrying Chelsea, had we been in more comftable situations i would have bet my backside he would have got gametime) which is why Lamps has been playing. We cannot throw Josh into situations like drawing with 20 mins to go str8 off, we did it at Villa Park last season and he nearly lost the game for us (imagine how much that would have set him back).

He has dropped Drogba for 2 of the 3 matches, so that alone proves he is not scared to drop players as Drogba is probally the guy with the biggest ego, he dropped Malouda after a shite display at Stoke and he hauled Kalou off after half a hour and didn't even have him on the bench today so that surely says something?

Malouda had a poor game at Stoke and was dropped, Kalou was hauled off after half a hour, Alex had a poor game against WBA and was dropped the only reason Lamps has not been is because off the reason i gave above.

Andre has made changes between and during matches that (as much as i love Carlo) Carlo never seemed to do as much. Today Andre put Josh and Lukaku on the bench you could bet your bottom dollar Carlo would have put Yossi and Kalou there and put it to expierence. So i think the critism he is getting right now is extremely harsh to say the least. Remember Jose's opening premier league games? we were shite and grinding our results till mid October then we took off, don't be suprised to see something similar this time.

I would give you a plus ten rep if I could...

About being able to pull of a Mourinho-esque debut season, it depends on how long we can keep grinding out results. If we can at least stay unbeaten till October, then it gives something to think about.

[BLionheart 516]

I agree with this, except the last two lines.

Ramires style is more direct and suited for teams who utilitzes in quick passing. He needs to play alongside a deep-lying playmaker like Xabi, Pirlo, schweinsteiger, etc. midfielders that can attack and defend.

Hence Modric/Moutinho

[Domino- 116]

I think the middle line is not so bad. Now, if we look at some players as units we could find weaknesses. Lampard definitely has something to give the club, but we need one more man in midfield to mark at least ten goals a season. Mikel and Ramires hardly scored more than 3 goals per season. Last season was telling that when Frank was not there no one to score from midfield which is a big problem. Attracting offensive midfielder I think will be a priority.

Juan Mata is rather typical winger who will play exactly as such.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Mikel and Remires cant play in the same midfield. I dont know what's all the hype about Remires's game today, like i said, he had some

good minutes after he got the penalty, but before that he was inexistent in attack and even in defense. I just dont get this player, it seems

that he can do so much more but somehow he doesnt. You cant play with two midfielders that can barley help you on the attacking game.

I wish Remires was like young Essien, but he isnt. He needs to be way more dominant.

If Modric wont come, it will be a problem, but maybe Josh can help with it if he will get the chance. It will be hard with the midfield of

Lampard, Remires and Mikel. Lampard, beside he's not in his best form, cant work the attacking midfield alone, he never done it in Chelsea,

he allways had Ballcak or Essien next to him, Remires doesnt give the same quality. Not even close.

I agree, we are similar to City with how we have two holding players but unfortunately we don't have a David Silva behind the forwards...

We only need one enforcer, and I would suggest Mikel would be the better choice as he is more disciplined. Ramires needs to be played in a more advanced role, because he can really have an impact on games in a more advanced role.

Cech

Bosingwa - Luiz - Terry - Cole

Mikel

Modric/Benayoun/JM20....................................

...............................Ramires/Lampard

Sturridge - Drogba/Torres - Mata