The midfield puzzle

[eldo 868]

Josh will get enough games this season!

[Beast 85]

I think we are being a bit harsh on Andre with his team selections.

There is one reason he is playing Lamps and no its not because he is too scared to drop him its because none of our other CM have as much attacking instints bar Josh (who is too young to be carrying Chelsea, had we been in more comftable situations i would have bet my backside he would have got gametime) which is why Lamps has been playing. We cannot throw Josh into situations like drawing with 20 mins to go str8 off, we did it at Villa Park last season and he nearly lost the game for us (imagine how much that would have set him back).

He has dropped Drogba for 2 of the 3 matches, so that alone proves he is not scared to drop players as Drogba is probally the guy with the biggest ego, he dropped Malouda after a shite display at Stoke and he hauled Kalou off after half a hour and didn't even have him on the bench today so that surely says something?

Malouda had a poor game at Stoke and was dropped, Kalou was hauled off after half a hour, Alex had a poor game against WBA and was dropped the only reason Lamps has not been is because off the reason i gave above.

Andre has made changes between and during matches that (as much as i love Carlo) Carlo never seemed to do as much. Today Andre put Josh and Lukaku on the bench you could bet your bottom dollar Carlo would have put Yossi and Kalou there and put it to expierence. So i think the critism he is getting right now is extremely harsh to say the least. Remember Jose's opening premier league games? we were shite and grinding our results till mid October then we took off, don't be suprised to see something similar this time.

Probably the best post i've seen on TalkChelsea.

[Blue Armour 4,158]

I think we are being a bit harsh on Andre with his team selections.

There is one reason he is playing Lamps and no its not because he is too scared to drop him its because none of our other CM have as much attacking instints bar Josh (who is too young to be carrying Chelsea, had we been in more comftable situations i would have bet my backside he would have got gametime) which is why Lamps has been playing. We cannot throw Josh into situations like drawing with 20 mins to go str8 off, we did it at Villa Park last season and he nearly lost the game for us (imagine how much that would have set him back).

He has dropped Drogba for 2 of the 3 matches, so that alone proves he is not scared to drop players as Drogba is probally the guy with the biggest ego, he dropped Malouda after a shite display at Stoke and he hauled Kalou off after half a hour and didn't even have him on the bench today so that surely says something?

Malouda had a poor game at Stoke and was dropped, Kalou was hauled off after half a hour, Alex had a poor game against WBA and was dropped the only reason Lamps has not been is because off the reason i gave above.

Andre has made changes between and during matches that (as much as i love Carlo) Carlo never seemed to do as much. Today Andre put Josh and Lukaku on the bench you could bet your bottom dollar Carlo would have put Yossi and Kalou there and put it to expierence. So i think the critism he is getting right now is extremely harsh to say the least. Remember Jose's opening premier league games? we were shite and grinding our results till mid October then we took off, don't be suprised to see something similar this time.

I would give you a plus ten rep if I could...

About being able to pull of a Mourinho-esque debut season, it depends on how long we can keep grinding out results. If we can at least stay unbeaten till October, then it gives something to think about.

[BLionheart 516]

I agree with this, except the last two lines.

Ramires style is more direct and suited for teams who utilitzes in quick passing. He needs to play alongside a deep-lying playmaker like Xabi, Pirlo, schweinsteiger, etc. midfielders that can attack and defend.

Hence Modric/Moutinho

[Domino- 116]

I think the middle line is not so bad. Now, if we look at some players as units we could find weaknesses. Lampard definitely has something to give the club, but we need one more man in midfield to mark at least ten goals a season. Mikel and Ramires hardly scored more than 3 goals per season. Last season was telling that when Frank was not there no one to score from midfield which is a big problem. Attracting offensive midfielder I think will be a priority.

Juan Mata is rather typical winger who will play exactly as such.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Mikel and Remires cant play in the same midfield. I dont know what's all the hype about Remires's game today, like i said, he had some

good minutes after he got the penalty, but before that he was inexistent in attack and even in defense. I just dont get this player, it seems

that he can do so much more but somehow he doesnt. You cant play with two midfielders that can barley help you on the attacking game.

I wish Remires was like young Essien, but he isnt. He needs to be way more dominant.

If Modric wont come, it will be a problem, but maybe Josh can help with it if he will get the chance. It will be hard with the midfield of

Lampard, Remires and Mikel. Lampard, beside he's not in his best form, cant work the attacking midfield alone, he never done it in Chelsea,

he allways had Ballcak or Essien next to him, Remires doesnt give the same quality. Not even close.

I agree, we are similar to City with how we have two holding players but unfortunately we don't have a David Silva behind the forwards...

We only need one enforcer, and I would suggest Mikel would be the better choice as he is more disciplined. Ramires needs to be played in a more advanced role, because he can really have an impact on games in a more advanced role.

Cech

Bosingwa - Luiz - Terry - Cole

Mikel

Modric/Benayoun/JM20....................................

...............................Ramires/Lampard

Sturridge - Drogba/Torres - Mata

[Styles 9,790]

One criticism that people always have about Mikel is that he doesn't move the ball quick enough. But what about the players who are supposed to make themselves available for a pass? Mata came on yesterday and was moving nonstop looking for space and making angles to recieve the pass. Why doesn't Lampard do that? Why doesn't Malouda? Why doesn't Ramires? They just stand there being marked and then people complain about Mikel not moving the ball quick enough. He has no options 80% of the time! What do people want him to do? Give the ball away quickly? Strangely I think that would satisfy some people.

[eldo 868]

One criticism that people always have about Mikel is that he doesn't move the ball quick enough. But what about the players who are supposed to make themselves available for a pass? Mata came on yesterday and was moving nonstop looking for space and making angles to recieve the pass. Why doesn't Lampard do that? Why doesn't Malouda? Why doesn't Ramires? They just stand there being marked and then people complain about Mikel not moving the ball quick enough. He has no options 80% of the time! What do people want him to do? Give the ball away quickly? Strangely I think that would satisfy some people.

Even then they would find something to moan about.

[Styles 9,790]

Even then they would find something to moan about.

People just have their favourites and will just criticise Mikel no matter what.

The movement of our players is so rubbish. Look at the goal from yesterday, look at how all of them except Mata are just standing around doing nothing - http://www.soccerclips.net/videos/chelsea-3-1-norwich-city-mata

[Badboy 1,526]

@Tomo That was because they could accommodate all three of their playmakers remember ? Xavi played as a ball playing DM Iniesta and Deco ahead of him. We can not Accommodate three Playmakers in our midfield because we play in a total different league were you need a fighter in there.

[BLionheart 516]

Bacelone's Midfield :Busquets - Xavi - Iniesta

Real Madrid's : Xabi alonso - Khediera/Sahin - Ozil

Man utd's : Carrcik/Giggs - Anderson/Cleverly

Etc.

Those are 3 examples of modern midfield structure , the role of destroyers has been minimized to the point that the best two midfields in the world (Barca - Spain) don't include any , most of successful teams right now are deploying creative ball playing midfielders , who can keep possession and retain the ball rather than losing it and winning it back .

While the likes of Wilshire , Xavi , Modric , Iniesta can always make tackles , interceptions (of course to a lesser extent than the destroyers) . The likes of Yaya Toure , Song , Ramires , Mikel will never be able to retain possession a la Xavi , Iniesta , Modric .

And here lies our problem , we have 3 destroyers or 4 including Romeu (if what's said about him is true) , only 1 Technical , Ball retaining player (McEacheran) and we have Lamps .

Barca has 0 destroyers and 3 ball retaining players , Real has Khediera who can be considered as a destroyer and may be diara so 2 destroyers although they are very rarely used together and real were about to offload Diarra .

Man utd has Fletcher only so one destroyer, Arsenal only use Song as a Destroyer ....etc.

Conclusion: If we are looking to play attack-minded football we need to use only one out of Mikel/Essien/Ramires/Romue , Also Modric is very much needed and McEacheran should be used more but we not more than 17-20 starts / 27-30 appearances this season.

[DYC. 7,542]

Barca can afford to play without a destroyer because they average 96% possession per game. And Busquets might not be a destroyer but he's a great interceptor. Real Madrid do play with a destroyer, Mourinho always plays with either Khedira or Lass. Utd's destroyer is Fletcher, who always plays when fit but he's been out for months.

But I agree that we only need one defensive-minded midfielder.

[eldo 868]

Destroyer-> Mascherano.

Mikel, Romeu=destroyers The only destroyer in our team is Ramires.

Barca's system doesn't need destroyers because all of them are destroyers with their playing style of keeping posession and retaining it quickly. They put pressure on opponent with their movement.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Destroyer-> Mascherano.

Mikel, Romeu=destroyers The only destroyer in our team is Ramires.

Barca's system doesn't need destroyers because all of them are destroyers with their playing style of keeping posession and retaining it quickly. They put pressure on opponent with their movement.

Would you say Makelele was a destroyer?

[BLionheart 516]

Barca can afford to play without a destroyer because they average 96% possession per game. And Busquets might not be a destroyer but he's a great interceptor. Real Madrid do play with a destroyer, Mourinho always plays with either Khedira or Lass. Utd's destroyer is Fletcher, who always plays when fit but he's been out for months.

But I agree that we only need one defensive-minded midfielder.

Read my full post and you will realize that's exactly what i said about Madrid , United and Barca.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

The only destroyer in our team is Ramires.

Mikel is not a destoyer? he's just that.

Btw, Real playes also with Alonso, who is kind a destroyer too, but he can give more than that, unlike Khediera.

[dodojojo 510]

Very good posts here so I will only reiterate what I've posted before: Ramires, Mikel and Lampard are fine players but as a MF unit, are very limited and unbalanced. Basically they are 3 midfielders who aren't especially good at 2 of the most vital components of a midfield, create and retain possession. If you have a MF that can't do that consistently and well...I fail to see how any team can prosper. You simply can't get away with it at the elite level.

Sergio Busquets isn't a destroyer but he certainly is a defensive midfielder. Just because he's not smashing people about doesn't mean he's not a DM. He doesn't have to smash because even as a DM, he has exceptional technical skills. That's the issue here, Barca's DM is better technically than Chelsea's box-to-box MF and creator/scorer, nevermind the DM.

Too limited, too unbalanced.

[DYC. 7,542]

Read my full post and you will realize that's exactly what i said about Madrid , United and Barca.

My bad, I thought you meant Barca and Madrid when you said the best midfields in the world.

But I wouldn't compare us to them. They have mastered the high pressure game and have Busquets, Iniesta and Xavi in their team which means nobody can retain the ball better than them.