dee25

If you look through the last 10 pages of this thread, there's a wealth of discussion about whether he's ready to play a role in the first team, and if you go even further to his transfer page, many were questioning his readiness then so clearly the reluctancy that some have extends further than two preseason friendlies. I don't think it's a coincidence that he had a better season in 12/13 (when he was playing more regularly) than he did last season when he missed a lot of matches and was basically 3rd choice centre back behind Sall and Perrin. From what I've seen of him, he's the sort of player that needs to get into a momentum and I don't see how that's going to be possible with him being that far down in the pecking order. Clearly you disagree, and that's fine but from what I've seen of Zouma, he needs to be playing consistently. He's far too raw to be 4th choice, and I don't think he'll be able to perform adequately if he's not playing regularly. But let's see....

Don't think this is true at all. Hazard takes on players all the time, I would even argue that he does it a bit too much. There's a reason why he's fouled constantly, and I'm sure if you look at the number of attempted dribbles he makes, it would be among the highest in the league. What he does need to do more often is pass and move into space rather than trying to dribble past how many players. Also wouldn't hurt if he took more shots.

Not all young players require a loan spell before they can be integrated into the first team, for example Ake in my opinion is for sure ready to play a role, but Zouma definitely needs to be sent out on loan. He's far too raw, makes way too many mistakes and generally isn't composed when put under pressure. He needs to be playing week in, week out because it's obvious that composure is really lacking in his game. He'll probably be loaned out again, and it wouldn't surprise me to see us dip into the market for another centre back. I think we need more quality in that area.

There’re many differences between the players. I would argue that not only is Mata a better dribbler but he has a better fist touch, he’s better in tight spaces and his close control of the ball (I think) is better. Cesc however is an outstanding passer and that’s the fundamental difference for me. Mata’s vision and passing abilities are great but Cesc is hands down exceptional in this aspect. But my issue with Peace’s post is that, I’m confused by it. I respect that Mata isn’t everyone’s ‘cup of tea’ and that he has many limitations that can easily make him a passenger or even a liability. But the thing is if Mata doesn’t do it for you, if you think he’s too weak and easily out-muscled then chances are Fabregas won’t do it for you either because although they have different strengths however their weaknesses are very, very much similar. Many of the complaints about Mata in Peace's post are exactly the same complaints Barcelona fans had of Fabregas and are exactly the same complaints a lot of Arsenal fans had of him as well. So I don’t understand how one is going to recognize the value of Cesc if you don’t recognize the value of Mata. For you to see Cesc as an asset requires that you close your eyes to his limitations and see the good things that he does bring. If many fans couldn't do that with Mata, I don't know how they're going to do so with Cesc.

If anyone is actually thinking that Fabregas is a better dribbler than Mata, then they're probably going to be very disappointed.

Yeah his game is definitely not about discipline the way it is with traditional holding midfielders. It's not just that he tries to force passes that are clearly not possible but sometimes he'll move up to press the opponent, completely abandoning his position and leaving this big gap of space behind him. I think with Matic (from what I've seen of him here and at Benfica) he'll flourish in a true pivot system where there's another central midfielder, with the same skill set as him, and both take turns attacking and defending. So when Matic turnovers possession or leaves his position, there's someone there covering for him and vise versa. I think that's why he worked so well with Luiz.

There's definitely a strong possibility that he might be loaned out but I also wouldn't be surprised if Mourinho decided to keep him. Last season there were reports in the Spanish press that Valencia were keen to include an option to buy clause in his loan agreement but Chelsea were adamant that he was part of their future plans, and through out the season the local press were certain that even if Valencia wanted to keep him, Chelsea would refuse. Romeu even said that the club were constantly in contact with him and were closely monitoring his progress. So he might be loaned out but I think there's a likeliness he might stay. If he does stay then I think he can be more than just a back up for Matic. Actually wouldn't mind seeing him used in the same way David Luiz was used for much of last season - sitting alongside Matic. Yes it would be defensive but the good thing about a Romeu-Matic combo is that it would take the shackles off of Fabregas. It would also allow both Luis and Azpi to get forward. I like the Oscar-Fabregas-Matic midfield for home games but for away games at tough grounds like St James Park, Selhurst Park, Britannia etc that midfield would get run over.

The comments about Van Ginkel being "nothing special" actually reminds me a lot of the sort of comments people used to say about Frank. I think people really need to be patient with him, particularly because (like Skipper said) he's returning from an ACL injury and that's not an easy feat. The psychological impact of that kind of injury is no joke. Some athletes never recover. That he breezed through rehab and made a return earlier than expected tells me that he definitely has it in him to be a top player.

^^ is he for real?

He's the same age as Oscar and Hazard, which is surprising to me. I thought he was a lot older.

When was the last time Juve actually sold a big player? I just don't think he'll leave, and if he does then my gut feeling tells me that it won't be to Utd.

We taking over. First TalkChelsea. Then......world domination. Better recognize!

Really, really tough call between Skipper and Barbara but I gotta back my fellow girlies! It's great to see such a strong female representation on this forum. Remains of the day is such an amazing poster - seriously have a girl crush on her. Barbara of course is great as well and so are laura90, Francozola, Darrus, Martina (who was more active last summer) etc. I really do think there should be a best female category not only to recognize their contribution but to also encourage more continued female participation.

wow Alexis Sanchez's dribbling success rate is incredibly poor, particularly in comparison to Hazard's.

Best football knowledge: Remains of the day; DYC <------ this member NEEDS to get more mentions btw. His assessments of players are always spot on. Best general knowledge: Mohammed Seif, Stingray & TorontoChelsea? I don't go on the general threads enough to form a sound a opinion tbh. But those three generally come across as well versed. Best newcomer: Mohammed Seif; iseah 100 Best article writer: Alex; Hjperdeath Best graphics and video producer: Feroze Best staff member: Jason - for being so diligent with posting chelsea related media stuff. Funniest forumer: Ainsley Harriott Most-liked forumer: Stingray, Barbara Wisest forumer: Remains of the day Most controversial: Lionsden Biggest contributor: Skipper British Member of the Year: Tomo; Styles International Member of the Year: Skipper; Barbara

Sounds like he's definitely open to the move. I can't believe for one second that if Vidal's available, others clubs won't be in the returning. Hopefully Real Madrid or Bayern comes in. Not liking how good of a midfield pair Vidal and A. Herrera would make.

Uh uh. So Schurrle's hat trick is an indication of what he could be capable of but Willian's goals against Stoke, Norwich and Saints doesn't offer a glimpse of what he could offer once he settles?

I think he's got immense ability and he's also fortunate to have physical strength and pace. The limitations in his game is really down to his mentality. He just needs to assert himself and be more daring on the ball. But he has all the tools in my opinion.

Exactly this. There's no way the board will spend all that money bringing in Pogba and Cesc only for them not to be starters. So in a 433 you're looking at a first choice combo of Matic-Cesc-Pogba and even in a 4231 Cesc would be first choice in the 10 ahead of Oscar. So if Pogba were to come here, Oscar would see very little playing time in his preferred position. But I really like the idea of having a dynamic runner next to Cesc. I think that kind of player would compliment him well but I honestly don't know if I trust Ramires. We should be looking to upgrade him. My hope is that during preseason, Van Ginkel can stake a strong claim. If Ramires is still going to be starting games for us then (in my opinion) our midfield hasn't improved all that much from last season.

Makes absolutely no sense to spend 50m or so on Pogba. Having said that though we should totally do it!

Are the expectations that some fans have of the no. 10 truly at odds with Mourinho's though? Don't know about that. I don't think so. If that were the case then Mourinho wouldn't have approved the Fabregas signing. So that he brought in Cesc (in my view at least) shows that he clearly recognizes the value of the sort of playmaking qualities typically associated with no. 10s i.e creativity, vision, incisive passing etc. What I do think is that the priorities at the beginning of the season were different than the priorities now. Mourinho was taking over a team that hadn't been competitive in the league since Carlo left, a team that had a shaky defensive foundation, didn't have a pressing structure in place and only just sneaked to 3rd place. So some sacrifices had to be made in order to move the team forward. At that particular time it made sense to have a more all around player in the no.10 because that's what was needed. The thing about Mourinho is that he's a very reactive coach. It's one of his best qualities. He has a knack of quickly adapting to situations. Look at how he used Azpi to turn a position that was leaving us a bit exposed into a position of real strength (defensively). So that he prioritized Oscar's qualities in the no. 10 over Mata's qualities doesn't necessarily indicate anything about the sort of abilities he prefers his no.10 to have. I could be wrong but that's my sense. As for your point about the criticisms people make about Hazard, Oscar, Schurrle etc. 100% agree with this. The criticisms don't bother me as much, it's more that people easily write off players and it's all the more upsetting when it's a young player whose full potential hasn't even been realized. But the way some people speak of these players, it's as if they have a crystal ball or something.

You laugh now, but just wait until Matt McClure is doing this in a Chelsea shirt....

Well I'm not sure exactly who falls into this category of 'Mata widows' but the ironic thing is that many of the people who right from the very start said that Oscar can't play the no. 10 role as well as Mata is able to are probably the ones who might be more lenient with Oscar - with the exception of lionsden. His weaknesses have been apparent to us for a while now and we've learned to accept him in spite of those limitations. But it's interesting, because If you actually look at the members who are being overly harsh with Oscar, those were the same people who so adamantly defended him when he was in form, when he was popping in the goals and when he was the 'shinny new thing' but now that he's no longer in form they're ready to just cast him aside without a moment's hesitation. So these 'Mata widows' - as you call them - are probably the ones (at least in my view) who have been and are being the more rational on the subject of Oscar. Back in August, September....Oscar wasn't as fantastic as some made him out to be but at the same time, he hasn't suddenly become this terrible footballer as some are now making him out to be. Just my two cents.

The irony is that he scored 19 goals last season. Sanchez is an odd one. I agree with you that he wasn't exactly a right fit for Barcelona, but at the same time I think that only at a system like Barcelona could he have that many goals & assists. He has like 10 assists but he isn't a creative player at all. He doesn't regularly play killer passes nor is he a clinical finisher. In fact, his decision making in the final third can be really frustrating. But somehow he has 19 goals and 10 assists! I just think his stats are overinflated.

People were also saying that Ozil would be the best attacking midfielder in the league....... It's hard to see Arsenal strengthen, but even when they had Nasri, Fabregas, Van Persie, Clichy etc the highest they finished was 3rd.