dee25

....which was a substitution. Not understanding your point that Conte's subs made no difference....

Refreshing isn't it? No players going down easily looking for a handout from the ref, no Costa getting into petty squabbles. just..... football. I've missed that. Long may it last.

You stole mine. I think the last time we strung together 5 consecutive wins was 2013/14 season.

It's one thing to make those errors in your second match in charge, it's something entirely different to keep making those same errors months after months, defeat after defeat, poor performances after poor performances. It took Guus 45 mins to see that Cesc alongside Matic wasn't working. He acted swiftly and replaced him with Mikel. How long did it take Mourinho before he finally dropped Cesc? How many times did we have to watch Cesc get turned and our midfield sliced opened by the slightest of movement before Mourinho finally did something about it? I understand that some people on here who are strong supporters of Mourinho are desperate for some vindication. I don't blame you, after all it's human nature to want to be proven right. But to criticize Guus for making similar errors in judgement as Mourinho without acknowledgement that the former is only 1 week into his managerial tenure, is quite frankly the height of absurdity. Good points raised. Would many managers, upon taking over a team mid season, bench a starter based solely on video analyses? I don't think so. I would think most managers would want to see how a player responds to their style/methods of coaching before deciding to replace them in starting line-up. I agree with you that Guus might never drop Ivanovic, but I also think it's important to bare in mind that he's taking over a team that's low in confidence and solidarity. I would imagine that for an interim manager walking into these circumstances, the first priority would probably be to try to lift the mood and unify the dressing room. I'm not sure if coming in and making radical changes right away would be the best approach to take to improve performances/results.

I have no doubt that were it Mourinho in that dugout, a fair few of the people who are criticizing Guus would be singing a different tone. We'd be seeing comments like "crucial point gained at a difficult ground". Excuses after excuses would be thrown about as to why we were so poor in possession - "well we were missing Costa", "well Utd might be in poor form but they're still United", oh and the obligatory "would you rather have lost 4-0 like Arsenal?" It's funny how so much more is being expected from an interim manager who's only had a week to work with these players than the previous manager who had years to mold this team according to his vision. Hats off to Tomo who is backing Gus just as strongly as he did with Mourinho.

Silly me. I thought technical things like ball circulation, attacking patterns, ball recovery (things that are severely lacking in this team) were under the responsibilities of the coach. Yes it's Emenalo's fault that the players can't string together passes. No responsibility whatsoever should be placed on the previous manager who's been coaching these players for 3 years now.

That one time in the game Ivanovic's cross actually found a blue shirt....I had to pinch myself. Then there's this perpetual gapping hole in midfield that's always there. All the time. No matter how many men we get behind the ball. It never closes. It's just there.

The structure of this team is just so inherently flawed it makes me want to punch it in the face. We can’t play out from the back because we don’t have defenders comfortable with the ball so we end up playing it long, but neither one of Hazard, Willian, Pedro, Oscar or Costa have aerial dominance so often times we end up always losing possession. Add to the fact that we have no natural fullbacks. Watching our attacking players attempt to overturn a scoreline in this system is like watching someone try to swim against the tide.

Look, If you're going to respond to my post then I really wish you would refrain from using words like "vent". I think words like that ends up producing unneeded tension and overly defensive replies. It's completely unnecessary. If you're unable to construct an argument without resorting to straw man statements like "feel free to vent" then simply don't respond to my posts and I promise to return the favor. Deal? It will save us both so much hassle. Secondly, I'm off the opinion that when you pay 20M euros for a 29yr, you give him fair chances to adapt to a new league, build confidence and stake a claim for a starting position. Luis was not any worse than Ivanovic who, regardless of his continuous brainless defending, was allowed chance after chance...and that's exactly the issue – that under Mourinho, certain types of players are allowed time and patience while others are benched at slightest sign of a mistake. Thirdly, regarding your hindsight is 20/20 argument......the interesting thing is that there are several members on here who had concerns about certain decisions Mourinho was making. I remember one poster on here who wrote an extensive post that Benitez was on to something by building the team around Luis, Mata and Hazard and all Mourinho needed to do was bring in a few extra pieces rather than breaking down the whole system. So I think your whole claim that it’s easy to criticize Mourinho’s decision in hindsight is a baseless claim. Many posters having been saying these things for the past two seasons. In any case, you’re right that we won’t agree and I really don’t think you’ve contributed anything of note except make silly straw-man comments. So let’s just leave it here.

There're absolutely no signs whatsoever that would indicate that Mourinho was planning to leave a long-term legacy here, besides his lip service to words like "long-term". You don't sell Ryan Bertrand and bring in a 16 million 29 yr old as his replacement and then proceed to leaving him on the bench, if you're planning to leave a long-term legacy. I think this notion that Mourinho wanted to achieve longevity here is nothing but wishful thinking.

Spot on. Mourinho was coming out of a disaster season at Real Madrid. Everyone was questioning his managerial capabilities, wondering whether he was past it. He needed to quickly repair his reputation and he did so by sacrificing this club's future. His intention wasn't never to come here and build a solid foundation. No. He simply swept the dirt under the rug and used methods that would produce immediate returns with no consideration to the long-term impact (i.e not rotating players). People complain that the board didn't back him but this man had Filipe Luis sitting on the bench and still insisted on running Azpi to the ground! What did it matter to him if Azpi burnt out?

Well when you have a fanbase that treats him as one, you can hardly blame him for believing it....

You literally took the words right out of my mouth. How can anyone say the club is in shambles without acknowledging that Mourinho is essentially to blame for that? Is he not the one that mishandled the situation with Eva? The whole team has been atrocious, yes but he's the manager! He's the one that coaches these players, he's the one that selects them, he's the one that sets up the team.... yet there's this reluctancy to reprimand him. If the club is in shambles then it's because the manager himself is in shambles.

My definition of "efficiency" differs from yours then. Last season, how many games did we win against the top 4 sides? Playing rigidly doesn't always equate to efficiency. We dropped points from winning positions against Utd and City all while playing rigidly. Chelsea fans really need to stop propelling this idea that we're efficient against the top sides. If that were true we wouldn't have been outplayed in the champions league in the last 2 seasons whenever we came across half decent teams.

Not to put you on the spot, but are people still deluding themselves with this idea that we play better against top 4 sides?

Our defence is slow. Central midfielders, slow. Attack, sterile. Bench, very weak. These are all problems that were evident last season and the club made no attempt to address them. Seriously in awe at the mismanagement of this transfer window.

On top of that, he goes and pairs Terry with Cahill. So you have two slow centre backs protecting 2 slow central midfielders who obviously will be hesitant to make challenges to avoid getting a yellow. How is that supposed to work exactly?

Completely agree with this Styles. I've had my share of criticisms of him as well but there are too many individuals playing poorly - whether it's the tactics, exhaustion, inability to cope with the pressure, lack of quality, or a combination of all these.....I really don't know but the team is not looking good at all and it's very unfair to start labelling Cesc as a bottler given these circumstances. As you rightfully said, he should be cut some slack. Same with Costa.

Preach. Dropped points from a winning position against Everton. Dropped points from a winning position against Burnley. Surrendered a 2 goal lead against Sunderland and needed a last min goal from a 36 yr. Lost by 2 goals against Arsenal. Would have lost at home to Hull were if not for a last min free kick.... I gladly welcome measured arguments about Mourinho's tactics, but if some on here are actually positioning City as a reference point then quite frankly they are far and beyond devoid of rational thought.

This whole 'bottler' label is really confirmation bias at its finest. That's not to say that Cesc hasn't been playing poorly, clearly he has. But it seems like right from the start some people have been waiting and watching him closely for the slightest sign that confirms their suspicions. Looking at the team's performances in big games or in the 2nd half of the season, Cesc hasn't been any worse than the other players but yet no one else gets labelled "a choker". Why? Because folks here already have a preconceived idea about Cesc and selectively see things that affirm the label of him being a bottler. He's being treated unfairly by some on here and I think people really get it into their heads that the team in general is playing poorly. To start singling out players is absurd. Cesc, Oscar, Costa, even Matic. The team overall has been poor and it doesn't come down to just one player.

Should they be held as an example?

Then got thoroughly outplayed themselves by 10 men Utd at the Etihad. Fyi, the same City team lost a 2 goal lead against Burnley. It's not so black and white, is it?

The last 10 or so mins aside, this was actually the best I've seen PSG play in a while. I don't think we should read too much into them throwing away a 2 goal lead - they lost two players to injuries, had used all 3 subs already and had to play out the rest of the match with 9 men. Not making any excuses for them, after all they capitulated. Just saying that I wouldn't start getting overly confident.

Can't watch the game. How many minutes left to play? Goal? GOAL!!!!!!

The thing is though skipper, every one of those arguments are infinitely more convincing that anything you or others criticizing Oscar have presented. You say that he hasn't improved much in 3 years, that he won't ever be better than he is now, and that his general play isn't good enough for the standards of this club but whether you choose to accept it or not, the numbers do show a clear progression in terms of creativity so he has improved significantly in this aspect. Saying that he hasn't made any great strides in his development is simply false. Maybe that improvement isn't good enough for your standards, but regardless it's still a significant progression from his first season here. You then argue that he won't ever be better than he is now. That isn't an argument. That's a hunch. A hunch that could be wrong or that could be right. Either way, it's inconsequential. Di Maria went from a frustrating and inconsistent player one year to being voted in the world XI and Argentina POTY above Messi. It's not such an inconceivable idea that Oscar can still improve and develop into an elite player. On the subject of his general play, that's a valid argument. But you and others on here act like his general play has been poor all season. That isn't true though. If you scan old comments on this thread starting from August, there were hardly any complaints about Oscar's passing for much of the first half of the season. It wasn't until Spurs away then Newcastle at home that consistent complaints of his sloppy passing began emerging. His general play has been dire recently, but it hasn't been a season long occurrence. Btw, since that game against Newcastle at the Bridge, Oscar has since played 90 mins against Swansea, Bradford, Liverpool, City and then 70 mins against Villa. He's played a lot of games in a short period so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he could be exhausted. Also, when criticizing Oscar's general play, people fail to realize or note that the team's passing overall has been turgid for a few months now. Matic has been misplacing one too many passes. Cesc has had his share of sloppy games. Even Hazard's general play has dropped significantly when a few months ago, he was unplayable. My point is that, I think you're putting a lot of weight into Oscar's recent performances but that doesn't give an accurate reflection of the way he's performed all season. You're only saying that Willian will do better in that role because he's in form now but Willian hasn't been performing the way he is now all season long. I think you're an awesome poster and pretty much the sweetest member on here, but I think you've made up your mind about Oscar and you're using a blip of poor performances as justification.