TorontoChelsea

If he can repeat the same sort of year, he won't play at all. You think Mourinho will accept a player who doesn't contribute anything when there's so much competition? Moses hasn't scored a goal in 19 Premier League appearances. He had a poor season. Flat out. I don't see how you can even argue that. He scored against Basel, Rubin, Boro, Southampton, Swansea, Leeds, Shakhtar and, Wolves and you want to call that a successful 50 game season? Moses didn't score well, didn't pass well, lost the ball easily, wasn't good in the air, and didn't defend particularly well. What exactly makes his season a success? Some goals against poor sides? Lots of players can score against poor sides You pay 8M pounds for someone because they can help you win games that you need to win, to win the managers' trust to be able to start regularly, not run them out against Boro and Leeds or in the Carling Cup to give your key players a rest. You could use youth players just as well for that. If you can't see a poor season when it's staring you in the face, you simply never will. 1 goal and 1 assist in 23 league games, 12 starts with an 81.9% passing rate and mediocre defense while playing almost exclusively against the worst competition and you're trying to claim that his season was fine? Seriously?. Jesus Christ, it's like if any player is under 23, 24 years old, he's automatically amazing no matter what. It's like every minor thing they do becomes crucial to the team. Forget the 95% of league games he contributed little to nothing, he scored in the Carling Cup so his season was a success!. Kalou was a better player for us every year he played and he got roasted on here. Seriously, the youth fetish on message boards is almost unbearable. @yuval-the reason why "all competitions" is almost useless is because teams can play so many different sorts of opponents that it skews things massively. All competitions can be games against Juventus, City, , and United or a bunch of matches against Brentford, Nordsjaelland, and Leeds. Chelsea played an almost unprecedented number of games against poor teams last season (long runs in both domestic cups including replays and the Europa League did that) so a number of players were able to put up stats against teams like Wolves or Brentford, Kazan, etc...(Look at who Torres got his goals against). Moses played against weaker opposition than any of our regulars. If you look at say Chelsea's hardest 10-15 games, he didn't start any of them, which is why his "all competition stats" look half-decent. @cripji-nobody should be celebrating anybody having a great pre-season or mourning someone having a bad one. it is 100% utterly meaningless. Once again, Marin was our best player last pre-season. I just want our players to stay healthy and get match fitness .I'd take losing every game and a healthy squad over winning every game and losing one player to injury. @blue armour-He's not indispensable at all. He's our #6 attacking midfielder. He wasn't indispensable last season, he basically started no important games-and we've added two players ahead of him. Also, he's not an out and out winger at all. If he were, I'd be much higher on him because he'd be giving us something different. He doesn't cross the ball enough (4 successful crosses all last season) and like Hazard, Schurrle, or Mata (when he plays on the wings) he likes to cut inside.

Oh yes, I disagree with you so I didn't watch the games. Moses was not the only reason we had a chance to advance. He had one big goal. We played 6 games. It's like the Torres won the corner to that lead to the goal against Bayern argument. (Would you say that Kalou was the reason for our Champions League win? He certainly had more of an impact on that run than Moses did on ours last year.) He made Buttner and Wooten run in circles? The duo who combined for 5 appearances in the league for ManU. Oh yes, a sure sign of an excellent season. The season is long and every single attacking player is going to have great moments. You can't take the few great moments a player has and say "those are who he is" because they were incredibly rare. I don't forget that he has 11 substitutes appearances either. 1 goal and 1 assist in 12 starts is still awful (Marin had the same totals in 2 starts and 4 sub appearances) and no, Moses is not particularly good defensively. He was used as a substitute because we didn't have depth and when one of the starters got tired (and 2 of them are poor defensively also), who else would Benitez put on? Benayoun? Marin? The lack of a productive substitute or viable alternative to the front three was a major problem last season which is why Chelsea went out and brought in/back two players (Schurrle and De Bruyne) who should both play ahead of Moses. Moses didn't score, didn't assist, didn't pass well, and didn't defend well last season and he's not a natural-winger type who drew defenders away to allow more space for attackers. He cut in all the time. He contributed almost nothing to Chelsea last season apart from the Europa League. I'm sick of every player under about 23 being massively overrated. (And people not seeming to be able to tell the difference between the tenses. "was good" and "could be good" are two different things. Moses could develop into a good player, but he was not a good player last season at all,

I watched every game last season. Moses had a few decent games and many many poor ones. He played well at AFCON, but for Chelsea, he was definitely poor and I can't think of a worse semi-regular player for us. It was a worse season than Kalou ever had for us but because of his youth people will give him enormous slack. If you can't admit that an attacking player who had 1 goal and 1 assist in 23 games with mediocre (at best) defense, and poor passing had a poor year, you simply are never going to admit it. He contributed absolutely nothing to Chelsea in the league or in the Champions League. Before AFCON when you talk about him playing well, he had 1 goal and 1 assist in the league and in Europe in 18 games. That was his good stretch? He had 4 successful crosses all season. His passing rate was the worst (except Marin) among any midfielders despite attempting very few long balls. His defensive work was limited. He still has excellent potential,. but yes, he was poor.

23 league games, 1 goal 1 assist for an attacking player. It was definitely a poor season. He didn't get a lot of regular playing time, but still he was probably our worst player who got semi-regular time last year. He is currently our 6th option at attacking midfield so I don't think it's likely he plays much this season barring injury.

He had a poor year last season for us. One good game in a meaningless pre-season match is not a statement of any kind.

Yeah, Parts of a New Jersey function as a suburb of New York City. The Meadowlands (MetLife stadium) where the new York Giants and Jets play is actually in New Jersey. If you were going to see the game, you'd travel to New York and stay there but technically, it's in New Jersey. Football is generally very local. The idea of Chelsea playing in say East London is ridiculous. Sports in North America are not as local. They cover larger areas.

Silva had 4 goals and 8 assists in 32 games. Oscar had 4 goals and 5 assists in 34 games. The quality of strikers is meaningless. Chelsea actually scored 9 more goals than City so Oscar has more opportunities for assists...and yes Silva didn't have a great year last season which is one of the differences in City's performance. (Silva also had 3.3 key passes a game to Oscar's 1.4). @peace-except he does put them into offensive actions. He took basically the same number of shots per game as Mata, Hazard, or Torres. @muzchap. This is what I am saying. I think he will be excellent. He needs a season or two to adapt but the talk of him already being there is premature.

It's not deceiving stats at all. He's an attacking midfielder. His primary job is to create goals. If he is not creating goals, he can still be useful, but he's not a top player. You cannot be a top attacking player and not produce goals. I don't care how well you track back or dribble. As I said, I think he will get there but he's not there yet.

Xavi is a central midfielder. His primary function is to move the ball and set up the attack score and he's been one of the best in the world in doing that for year. Xavi had a 95% passing rate. Oscar's was 83% Oscar is an attacking midfielder. If an attacking midfielder isn't scoring, he might be useful, but he certainly can't be considered anything special. (I will also add that Oscar didn't even get many assists. You can be a great midfielder if you're setting up goals left and right, it's different of course. You can't be a great attacking midfielder and have 4 goals and 5 assists in 34 matches. It's just not possible. )

There are many many great young talents out there and yes Oscar is one of them. Go back and look at the pages and pages of people gushing over his class. Yes, he could get there but when you break it down, he is someone who had about 5 or 6 excellent games all of last season and had many many games where he was invisible. The person who was on before (forget their username maybe "bite" or something) who was always talking about Oscar being crap was way off base, but as for Oscar being overrated, yes, right now he is vastly overrated compared to what he's accomplished. I think he's likely to have a very good season under Mourinho mind you.

Yes, but he scored 4 goals in 34 Premier League games one of which was a penalty so the people talking about him as if he's one of the best player in the world are being ridiculous..He shows excellent potential but the finished product simply was not there for Chelsea last season. He's young, he played a lot of games last season, he does other things than score, and he was making a big jump up in leagues so his so-so season was to be expected, but he's far from being a world-class talent at this point. His 4 goals and 5 assists in 34 games, his 3 goals on 59 shots from open play are feeble for an attacking player (To put in comparison, Jordan Henderson had a better offensive output while taking almost half the number of shots) .

I don't think he'd get regular time on a decent PL team yet. I'd rather he go to a Championship side and get regular playing time than to languish on some team's bench. I don't think there's any particular rush to bring any of our youngsters into our squad and a loan to a side where he doesn't get playing time can be extremely damaging to a players' development. (Look at Kakuta or McEachran for examples of that).

You'd take Ramsey over him? Then you're insane. Wilshire is a tremendous talent. He doesn't score because he plays central midfield and takes one shot every two games which is almost always from a distance out. If his finishing were better, maybe he'd score 2 or 3 goals a year. His job is not to score. If he'd be at Chelsea, he'd be our #1 central midfielder in a second. What's he done? He was on the PFA team of the year when he was a teenager. He's still younger than say Oscar or Hazard and is only 6 months older than De Bruyne. Since then he hasn't done that much because he's been injured and recovering for 90% of that time. Yeah, he's overhyped by some people but take a look at this thread or any number of threads and you'll see that every single Chelsea youngster is overhyped by our fans as well. I hate having to defend Wilshire because he's a prick as a person, but he is a very good player. It's really annoying to see every Premier League player mentioned, even obviously class ones, on other clubs dismissed as crap. (Which is in stark contrast to young players who come from other leagues who are all going to be world class players.)

Luckily, it's probably the easiest game of the season. We should be able to beat Hull with a few players missing. De Bruyne, Terry, and Lukaku in the starting XI instead is fine. The timing is stupid of course, but friendlies are always annoying.

And De Bruyne's team played WORSE with him in the lineup. Bremen were better with Marko Marin. Therefore, Marin is better than De Bruyne. Right? McEachran is probably around a 4-5M pound player right now. He was a special young player two years ago but he's regressed by not progressing, Wilshire would cost I don't know, 25-30M pounds? I can't stand this "he plays on a different team in the Premier League so he must be crap" sort of thing. It's been going on with Rooney now all the time too. Other teams do have quality players you know?

Jack Wilshire is a starting midfielder for one of the better teams in the world. He was one of the best midfielders in a top league before he got hurt. Josh had a decent year in the Championship. He probably should go on loan back to the Championship unless Chelsea can find a good fit in the bottom of the Premier League. It's not that Wilshire is better, it's that they are on different planets in terms of where they are right now.

It's possible he could start on the right, but I could also see Oscar in the middle and Mata on the right or even just Oscar on the right. He will definitely get playing time. And yes, he was a very good attacking force last season but that, like Schurrle, was based on unsustainable usage and unlike Schurrle, he was on a very poor squad. This is a team, that in the 7 games KDB played against the top-4 teams in the Bundesliga was outscored 23-4 (and De Bruyne had 1 meaningless goal in those 7 games). Saying look what he did at Bremen is useless without understanding the concept of how a player is used in a squad. People need to understand usage when talking about statistics. For example, as middle statistically as Oscar's first Premier League campaign was, you have to put in context of a team and a system. Bremen was set up for their attacking midfielders to succeed and Hunt and De Bruyne were their two best players and ran the team's offense and both were among the best offensive players in the Bundesliga on a team that was near relegation. .Oscar was often Chelsea's 4th offensive option and he had to do a lot of defensive responsibilities on a team that was fighting for trophies which De Bruyne didn't. De Bruyne had a higher usage rate than even Mata did for Chelsea. KDB took 2.7 shots a game. He attempted 7.6. long balls per game The manager gave him free reign which allowed him to have an awful 76.8 passing percentage. He had a role on Bremen he simple was never going to have on Chelsea. We have too many other talents and players that need that ball to have players repeat their offensive numbers at smaller clubs. He's still likely to be a key player, but people need to keep their expectations in check.

Wow, there is some insane overreaction here to 1.5 pre-season games against nothing sides where Chelsea were resting half their regulars. Nothing new. Just a reminder to stay off the boards until the season starts.

Deeper and play instead of who exactly? Mata? Hazard? Oscar? KDB? Chelsea are chasing Rooney to be their #1 striker and while his flexibility helps, he'd see almost all of his time in the #9 spot, We have excellent depth and skill in attack as is and a number of players who can play in the #10 sort of role already. We just don't have a top-class striker and Rooney is one.

That's simply not going to happen. Essien hasn't been that player since 2007-2008.A combination of a bunch of serious injuries and aging have left him a shadow of his former self. A player can rebound after a year or two of recovery, but expecting someone after 5 mediocre and injured years, to regain what they once were, is too much. It's not about taking joy, it's about being realistic. A 31 year old player with a history of serious knee problems and 9 major surgeries is not going to be the same player he was at 26 and completely healthy. We've watched him play and he just isn't remotely the same player he used to be. Even in 2010-2011 when he was healthy and playing regularly, he was not the same player. Now, 3 years older, he's going to be better? Essien is a good squad player because he's versatile and can slot in in a number of positions but expecting anything more than that is a bit silly.

You can't compare Higuain's statistics to that of a normal striker. He's playing on a team where Ronaldo takes 7 shots a game and the entire team is built around getting Ronaldo shots. In the two games for example, against Dortmund, Higuain took a combined 1 shot. Ronaldo took 11. How he'd do in a normal system as a striker? I think he'd be a good player (but not worth 30M or anything).

Not at you at all. You always have some perspective. Just a general rant looking through the the player threads with all the "you can tell (by a few good/bad passes/runs/tackles in one meaningless game) that player X is amazing/awful.

This is the only sort of thing I can ever take from pre-season. Possible tactical moves by the manager. Even then, Mourinho could easily switch to something else if this doesn't work but it's still interesting because I agree with you, I think Oscar fits into Mourinho's system very well. This board is going to be very difficult to be on until the season starts. People trying to read anything into individual performances in pre-season are going to annoy me to now end. It doesn't matter who looks good, it doesn't matter who performs well. Pre-season games are totally and utterly meaningless. Go back and look at the pages for Marin and Piazon this time last year People were mentioning Marin in the same breath as Iniesta, talking about Piazon playing regular minutes. I know we're all excited that (semi but not really) competitive football is back, but pre-season means nothing!!! (And yes, the "so and so looks great, you can tell he..." or "So and so sucks" stuff drives me crazy.)

It's possible for sure, maybe even likely but I can also envision a side where Mata is not as important. To be fair, he's shouldered too much of the load anyway and a more balanced attack (especially more width and better production from strikers) would be most welcome.

It's an interesting thing because one of the reasons I thought Mourinho wouldn't come back here is having a team built around Mata. Everything that Mourinho generally loves, counter-attacking, defensive solidity, quick movement, Mata is not. What Mata has is incredible vision, an excellent touch, and is a good finisher. Whereas Ramires strikes me as a perfect Mourinho sort of player, Mata doesn't seem to fit. Of course, Mourinho could always adapt his style to fit Mata better because he is our best player. It will be very interesting to see.