TorontoChelsea

What??? If you don't read this in English, you will miss amazing sentences like "Frank Lampard is back in the game, the lack of automatic instinctive with his new partners and Marine Hazard (both summer signings non-English speakers) that no captain does alert (phylacteries) of the explosive output of Montolivo (thick red dashed ).

Didn't even know he was still playing. Fantastic and thrilling player. To me, after Maldini, the second best LB I've seen.

It's true. Positioning is an incredibly important skill for any player and the lack of proper positioning from our strikers was one of our biggest problems last season. Easy goals are not just the midfielders running around and feeding you a perfect pass, it's the striker getting in front of the net in a good position and the ball finding him. If you are not in that good position, you are never going to get those easy goals. Top strikers have to be able to create their own goals, but they also have to be able to poach and our strikers did neither in the league last season.

Also...things I don't understand that haven't been mentioned (like intolerance and animal cruelty were). I don't understand how people can be so incurious about the world. People care more about celebrity gossip than they do about things that actually effect their lives. Who gives a crap about the Kardashians or the Royals? You hear of people who have lived in Dover all their lives and never even been to France (and similar in other countries). Don't you want to see the world? Experience different cultures? I also don't understand how anyone can be religious, but that's probably another thread.

You can tell that most people on this thread are young. When you get a little older, it becomes much harder to keep off weight and takes much longer to take it off. Also, when you get older, you have a full-time job, you have a lot of responsibilities, you have less energy, you might have a wife and kids, you're simply not going to find the time or energy to go to the gym 3-4 times a week. It also becomes less of a priority. Even if you are still single, having a good job and being confident are much more important for attracting women than being in killer shape.

It won't work. You need Lampard or someone else creative there to create otherwise Oscar would have to drop way deep and would essentially put himself out of the attack. In the 4-2-3-1, you absolutely have to have a creative bridge between the defenders and the forwards. You need that player to be a link-up otherwise the system just doesn't work which is why every team that deploys. The position is not simply about joining up with the attack, it's about creating opportunities and if Chelsea rely on Ramires and Mikel to start the attack, it's going to sputter. The other thing is that in this system, Ramires makes no sense as a regular starter. If Chelsea want to play ball-control and passing build-up, having a player who is essentially a counter-attack player is a waste. Counter-attack is a game of runs so someone like Ramires whose main attributes are speed and stamina, is incredible. The possession/passing sort of game there are very few runs in space, so you're taking away Ramires' number one strength. He's not a creative player and his passing game is very limited, and he's not a real DM either. He could be a super sub at about five different positions and still will likely be a pivotal player for us this season, but his game is really a poor fit for the direction Chelsea seem to be moving in.

This is exactly the nonsense I was talking about. Oscar is one of the best young attacking midfielders in the PL based on what? He hasn't played a single Premier League game. He hasn't played a single game in Europe. You're saying he is one of the best young players in the world based on looking good in a few friendlies and against under-23 sides of poor footballing countries. He is immensely talented and nobody will argue that, and he may even come to Chelsea and have immediate success, but the expectations like the one above are just silly. Let him come to Chelsea and develop and see what kind of player he turns out to be without these ridiculous expectations for immediate super-stardom. .

I think people need more realistic expectations for Oscar. He's clearly an immense talent, but coming from the Brazilian league to the Premier League is an enormous step up and to expect him to immediately be Iniesta or something is unrealistic and unfair to him. (Just like expecting Hazard to be Messi is unrealistic and unfair to him.) These are young players coming into a new league where players are faster, stronger, and more talented and they will have their ups and downs at least in the short term.

The problem with Ramires is not that he doesn't fit in at RW, it's that he doesn't fit into the system Chelsea are trying to bring in. He's a counter-attack player and is at his best when he gets into space where he can use his blazing speed. He's not a particularly good passer nor is he he inventive and he's not a real DM so where does that leave him? Probably as a sub who can provide cover for a number of positions. (and mostly as a defensive substitution for one of the wingers) It's an issue when you have so many different managers using different systems. You end up with quality players that just don't fit in.

Don't know if it'd be a mistake, but I think he's a better fit for the new Chelsea than Chelsea's other older players. Benayoun can play behind the striker or in any of the attacking 3 midfield positions and is more used to the quick, passing based game Chelsea are moving towards. Meireles is more of a 4-3-3 player and not sure where Essien would fit in in our system either and I am positive that Malouda and Chelsea would both be better off without each other. We really do need to clear out some midfielders 3 of those 4 should go even if Chelsea don't bring in anyone more.

Let Mata sit out until we play a meaningful game and he'll be fine. He's only started three matches since we beat Bayern, it's not like he was playing 90 minutes every game in the Euros or anything. Give him 3 weeks off until we face Wigan and he'll be good to go.

First of all, nobody plays the 4-3-2-1. Second of all, Lampard was one of our best players under RDM last season. He not only was key in linking up defense with attack, but also defended very well. He's leaving big gaps in front of the back four because he's not a defensive midfielder. It's not his job to cover for defenders, that's Mikel's responsibility. (And Luiz needs to stop running up field so much to leave so much room to cover). Chelsea are playing a 4-1-1-3-1 and Lampard is doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing but just like last season, I am positive that Lampard will get blamed for everything no matter what.

Not sure. I've seen it as pounds a bunch. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18990002 Also, nobody ever takes future payments into account when discussing prices of anything. If you buy a car with zero down do you tell people "I got a car for free?"

I wonder what things get like after a loss that matters. The suicide hotlines must get busy then.

Because Lampard is great at taking corners. In this day and age when so many people can't get the ball past the first man, Lampard gets almost every corner into a dangerous spot.

Lovely skill from Hazard

I get your point which is that if Torres does well, he'll be worth it. You're wrong though. He'll never be worth what we paid for him.

No. You're missing the picture entirely here. There are two aspects to judge whether a player is worth what was paid. 1) Results. Torres has to be a 50M pounds striker and be worth 175K/week every single year just to be worth his value. What is that? Probably around 25-30 league goals including carrying the team on his back. He has to be the best striker in the Premier League. Considering that Torres was actually one of the worst strikers in the Premier League last season and a half, he has to actually be significantly better than a 50M striker over the remainder of his Chelsea career to reach even value. 2) Could you have got someone as good or better for the same price and cheaper. The answer is always going to be yes. Chelsea could have bought better strikers for much less. Aguero cost 12M pounds less than Torres for example. So, no matter what Torres does, we could have have got someone better for cheaper. So, even if Torres goes on and scores consistently for us and we win trophies, would we have had the same success with someone like Aguero or Falcao? Certainly. So, Torres, even if he scores regularly will not be worth what we paid for him. (And nothing sells shirts like winning. Chelsea became a big club because of their success, not because of Torres.)

Because he cost 50M pounds. He is never going to be worth that and since he has been horrible for us for a 1.5 years, he needs to be basically Ronaldo for about 4 years in order to make the signing decent value and that's never going to happen. You can't judge the value of signing and discard cost. I think the 50M fee should not be talked about any more, because there's no point. He'll never be worth that, he was never going to be worth it. We need to move on.

After the game?? It will be the same discussion every 10 seconds. ("You can see his confidence is back by the way he wants the ball", etc...)

He'll never be worth 50M, because he was never worth it in the first place. In order to say "he was worth it", he not only has to play at the level of what a 50M striker was when he was bought ( top-5 striker in the world) but he has to be much better than anyone else we could have got for equal or less money (Aguero, Cavani, Falcao, or really any other striker in the world) and that's just not going to happen. Also, five years of 20 goals? Torres is 28 and has scored 16 league goals over his last two seasons. I'd be ecstatic if he has two years where he is a top striker for us. But, as I said earlier, the 50M price-tag is not an issue any more as far as I'm concerned. The issue is "is Torres good enough to be out #1 striker?"

No. Torres will never be a good signing no matter what, but he doesn't need to justify his being bought.for 50M pounds. If he scores 25-30 goals and wins us a bunch of games by himself, he'll justify his spot as our number one striker which is all he needs to worry about.

This is something I've noticed that's very common among many supporters of all teams. It's a combination of things 1) Either overrating or underrating players based on such small sample sizes that it sometime boils down to single plays ("horrible pass, he needs to go now" etc...) when of course even great players have bad stretches and even poor players can look good for a while. 2) Seeing players in a very black and white way. Players are either great or awful and every game just confirms this bias. Even the best players miss opportunities, make bad decisions, and so on.

Jesus...calm down people. This is a meaningless pre-season match. Pre-season is about building fitness and familiarity with other players. People expect way too much and are therefore disappointed over complete nonsense.

I'm getting sick of this "class is permanent" stuff. It just makes no sense because it implies that everyone who was ever good will always remain good which is obviously nonsense. We should get Beckenbauer, right? I mean, if class is permanent, who cares that he's 67. Pele is 72, but one of the all-time greats so therefore he must still be "class". Nothing is permanent and every player declines. Being good a few years ago is no guarantee of being good in the future. And yes, Drogba did have some poor seasons with us but it was always when he was replaced as a starting striker and was starting 15-20 Premier League games a season. Drogba never had a season remotely as bad as Torres had this past year and a half. 29 games without a goal is not bad, it's historically awful.