robsblubot

Thank you. I too apologize given that my poor wording implied something else entirely, but again, that was not my intention. I think the person you responded to did not read it in the same light, but still it was poorly worded. The "not nice" part is because I'm yet to know someone who likes and welcomes criticism esp in football -- had a similar post about Irish football once. Yeah, what you write above is and was exactly what I was getting at from the get go. Which actually came from talking about Caicedo and Ecuador, at least in my mind. Like Caicedo has to become the best Ecuador player in history to reach the expectations we have with him. Then again, is he an Ecuador player? How much development has he had in England vs Ecuador? That's exactly why players from, speaking of my own backyard now, say Brazil lose value as they age. It's not just that that their ceiling becomes easier to read, but also that it's less time that -- the supposedly bigger clubs w/ better coaching and infra -- will have to develop such player. They think, and I tend to agree, that working with them, the player will have a better chance to reach their potential. I've heard different takes from professionals in this area (player development) tho; like if a player from the small side is better than the one you got, then let the one you got go, and get the player from the small club, because he's behind in fitness and mental aspects at the very least. Others say it's not like that, that the player you developed for a long time will has a better "core" from the one from the smaller side/footballing nation. "Bayern at 17. Would his career have been different if he had been born in Spain?" Not but that's the thing, reaching Bayern at 17 makes his origin not much relevant. Like, it's early enough that Bayern will have a big influence in his development as a footballer. I totally understand that there are a number of different variables at player, some intangible, but I'm speaking as a general rule, and as these big clubs think.

England might be a good leverage on that. We could freeze him out until he leaves, which could hurt his chances with England. That should've been done earlier, but might still work some... some leverage I suppose. No point in "investing" on a player who's about to leave.

I merely asked you not to put words in my mouth, which you certainly did. It's fucking pretty annoying tbh. I've been watching World Cups for decades, and I will stick to my opinion. Morocco was indeed the most tactically disciplined African nation I've ever seen. Perhaps Cameroon came close before, with Milla, but that was more of a counter-attacking side. Those were the glaring exceptions, I'm afraid. Now, like I said, this is all acquired knowledge, so there is certainly evolution, just not as fast as was once predicted. The moment that's not the case anymore, then it's not the case, again IMO. 🤷‍♂️ Winning can definitely speed up that evolution tenfold... What do you think would happen if Mbappe's family had moved to the USA instead of France? do you really think he'd be what he is today? This is the example to emphasize the point. I'd go further and suggest Mbappe also wouldn't be what he is today had his family moved to Mexico, despite football being the main sport there.

First, please do not put words in my mouth. I did not write the quotation you made, nor have an indicated that's what I believe. In fact, I sure don't and it never had crossed my mind until I saw your nasty quote. So, thank you for that... not! 😞 My opinion mostly come from actually watching African nations play football, btw. It's pretty obvious to me when I watched them play over the years. I vividly remember Nigeria playing Uruguay when Mikel (sic) was still playing for the Super Eagles. Nigeria was all over the place, while Uruguay was tidy. They were both pretty bad teams, but the one thing that was clear to me was the tactical discipline of Uruguay. This is hardly a one time thing and I've seen this over numerous World Cups and other competitions. The word Brazilian commentators use for African football is (tactically) "naive", so I'm hardly alone in that. I also mentioned Mexico: they are considered a "footballing" nation and have little to nothing to show for it. This is not about being nice or not, deserving or not, It's about competing and winning. Some have and they carry the knowledge of winning with them. They can then pass on to the young and develop better players; it's a cycle. Now if you want to read more into it other than it is a fucking game, that's on you.

Yes, when did they all arrive and how much did they benefit from French footballing knowledge? Suspect each case may be different. Pogba and Dembele are extremely tactically undisciplined in my view; they make every other player around them having to work harder. Kante is very well disciplined, but now you are talking about specific examples, which could very well be exceptions -- suspect France international players are all by definition, the exception. Once again, it does not matter where they are originally from, I do not care where people were born, but where they learned football, youth development, and as young professional players. The quality and knowledge the players and coaches they had access to, and how successful they were/are. It's common for ex Brazilian WC winners to become coaches, which I'd imagine helps develop the young as they pass on their experiences and knowledge. It's amazing, for example, how good Pulisic is considering where he develop his game -- likely one of the worst places on earth to develop as a footballer. I hardly think Mbappe would've been half as good, had his family moved to the USA for example. Maybe a basketball, or am football player, but never a footballer.

And perhaps could have added another WC to his tally had his hammies still been in working condition. 😢

Another fantastic player.

Essien happened to be my favorite player during that era. Mikel was shit. Drogba an amazing world class player. Big fan of Mendy as you can check my posts in his thread. So what? What has race to do with any of that? I talking about footballing knowledge, tactics, coaches, etc check my previous post: I'm originally from Brazil and think Brazil footballing knowledge is extremely high, like Argenine. Perhaps not as high as certain European countries who excel tactically, but still very high. Has any African nation won the World Cup? Or any meaningful competition? Has Mexico? That's something that is acquired... not declared.

70-100m would already be an obscene amount to pay for a 21yo esp considering what Liverpool paid for Mac Allister. Recently went through that with Gremio in Brazil. They managed to drop being the 4th or 5th spenders (in wages) in the 2021 Brasileiro. They had Douglas Costa and a number of known names in their roster. Lazy team could not run nor press high -- got overrun by the smaller sides. Perhaps not the case for AIK, but in Brazil these club ownerships are toxic. Often absolute quacks get to leadership positions, using the club for political gain, or whatnot. They've got immediately promoted back (last year) and have much better leadership this time, Luis Suarez is the striker (and playing very well actually!) and they are doing much better, but the same, or different quacks are always lying in wait. The interesting thing about relegation is that much of the leadership dross vanishes immediately. They don't really care that much for the club, so there is little to gain by sticking around. There is definitely a cleansing aspect to dropping. The important thing is to get promoted right back, so not to lose the moneys. It's the nature of sports... can't get too upset about it. I've come to consider that, even when things are bad, it's still "entertainment"... like it is still useful to take your mind away from things that are far more important.

Absolutely! and African players often lack tactical discipline -- not a super nice thing to point out, but it is what it is.

Caicedo is going to be a fairly expensive bet on a very young player. Mac Allister has always been the player who caught my attention in their midfield. I suspect folks are rating Caicedo's potential, which is super hard to do. 🤷‍♂️ Another thing that's often not considered is nationality; yes it does matter. Ecuador isn't a terrible footballing nation, but it's not Argentina either. The level of competition that their players are used to, the level of knowledge of coaches and managers they have access to at young age can be vastly different depending on environment and country of origin.

wait ins't his contract running out anyway?

Fair enough. I rated Fabregas higher than Mata actually. Overrated is a bit of an odd thing. You can think a player is excellent and still think he's overrated because other folks compare him to, say Messi. It's all relative. BTW, I never said Fabregas was overrated, just that he was a a bit single dimensional. Like you'd paid him with a very powerful and dynamic CM to balance out his weaknesses. He was a master at passing the football (maybe the best I've seen), and had vision as well. Just wish we had gotten him while he still had legs.

What does his achievements have to do with me thinking he's single dimensional in characteristics? Not sure I see the relation here. Are you suggesting single dimensional players are incapable or contributing and winning silverware? Because I sure did not write that.

I already wrote what I saw in Mata's game: his weaknesses were glaring to me and I listed them just the way I saw it. Don't remember Mata being that influential for Spain either. He did look pretty bad at United -- did not miss him then. Fabregas was not athletic. lol He was one of the slowest CMs I've ever seen. 🙂 I happened to be playing Football Manager at the time he was a Chelsea player (yes he had better fitness levels at arsenal but not that much better), and he happened to have the lowest pace numbers of all PL CMs. He could barely finish a game and was a sure sub in all matches. Yes, he could pass the ball like few could, but that's exactly what I call single dimensional. Also a player who never really lit the world on fire at the international level. "All players have weaknesses." That's exactly how I see football.

Certainly. on the other hand I wonder how much the disarray at the club is affecting the players. If we cut (a lot of) slack for some of the new signings, the same can be said about the established players. Not a whole lot to be done at this point, but I'm pessimistic considering what I know about the owners.

indeed. Kai could become a thorn if he gets back to some sort of form. Jorginho I wasn't much bothered with, but Kova will fit City's system too well for my taste. "the same sort of boring stuff in midfield" that's literally City's system: most players do boring stuff 99% of the time until someone finds a little bit of space and creates something. Easier when it's a KDB who finds that space tho.

No argument there. He was an assist machine, and could strike the ball like few other players--better than Eden for ex. At the same time, he wasn't all rounded. He was physically weak, and at the same time not quick enough to avoid contact, which made him somewhat of an easy prey in big games in tight spaces. He had somewhat low workrate and for that reason could not press high very well. He could still strike the ball like few others, so could still contribute even when not finding spaces. I think he was a very good player, but a bit single-dimensional like Fabregas and many others were. I know when you say "overrated" people immediately think you don't rate a player, but that's not the case here. I'm just not that crazy about that type of player esp in the modern game. I prefer all players firing in all cylinders at all times.

There is really nothing else other that I called the tweet in this post silly and I stick to original take. It's cringe to me. Can't think the opinion there could've been any clearer, "lose the entire bermuda triangle"

once again we disagree. They cannot, should not, ever be put in the same group. Even from a scouting perspective, 2 of these players have performed much better than they did last season, while the other never really performed anywhere near the level the other two already have. To make it perfectly clear: even in last season, Mount and Kai have way more skill (first touch and passing) than Gallagher to my eyes. Gallagher's first touch is similar to Bakayoko's. OK the last part was too mean on Gallagher. 😅

I would take that bet. We should have a feature in this forum to pin wages/bets. Would be fun. Yes I did, and I still think that's not super important in a place where we call millionaire players, "ass" and "shit", etc. Still, happy to call them both quality in that case. My main disagreement wasn't even how one rates the players (mount and kai), but how disingenuous it is to pit Gallagher against them; a player who was never a starter, and never accomplished anything. 🤷‍♂️

yeah but then it's the time left in the contract. Wonder if the club made a mistake here: should he be playing with no intention of renewing? I've been noticing this lately. Clubs don't seem to force players out of the squad due to contracts running out anymore. Has something changed in the legislation around this maybe?

Agreed, agree to disagree. Realize I did not say one is "better." Different roles, different players, different requirements, different characteristics. It's 11 players... not tennis, or even basketball where a team stops playing when their star player rests.

Totally different cases: Matic, Jorginho were over 30yo when we sold them. Mata was way overrated. 🤷‍♂️ "Better" is to the eye of the beholder, but I suggest their valuations disagree with your assessment of them.

nitpicking the word I used. For me they are both quality players.