robsblubot

A bit self-serving, but fair enough. Oscar is still only 24, so I feel that despite his lack of progress, it may be premature to proclaim he's done for. Only one of us can be 100% wrong on this one.

Seems like a good player, but I'd take his performance against us with a grain of salt. Our midfield struggles often against anyone. this will go in the preferences of the manager and how he wants to setup his team. Will he employ an enforcer, or multiple rounded players? For example

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/959842/LiveStatistics/England-Premier-League-2015-2016-Chelsea-Stoke is this somewhat accurate? Haven't watched the game, so won't comment.

Supporters have a tendency to focus on team selections, which in a squad like we have (small) is really not that important. This is especially true today because our key players from last season have been in poor form and look average - which brings them to the same level with the rest of the squad. @Muzchap agreed on tactics. Now, of course we cannot value what we don't see and the info we don't get. Hiddink has obviously improved the team tactically short/med term, and there is merit in that. However, I stick to my idea that the players have only now, this far in the season, gotten proper fit. Fabregas is the obvious example. This was based on a number of pundits' opinions, some gossip on papers, and my own eyeballs: several chubby players at the start of the season. OK, Diego actually admitted being out of shape at some point, so it's hard not to take that into account. These type of managers (temps) never play the youngsters because there is no incentive for them to do so. They would incur into risk without any real benefit for them. Unless they are part of the staff, in which case they can get recognized, internally, if they develop or find the right players. Not the case for Hiddink just yet.

depends on the forwards... Cavani doesn't score that many goals playing second striker, neither does Rooney, the same with a number of other strikers who don't lead the attack for one reason or another. You could play with 2 cavanis on the sides as wingers/2nd strikers and still be somewhat solid, but difficult to imagine we could do the same with Rooneys. In the end they are just labels. Some teams don't even play with a centralized attacker/striker. The characteristics and quality of the players is what really matters.

We already play with 2 forwards: Diego and hazard. many second forwards out there defend better and track back more than Eden does. Honestly don't see much of a difference.

No hazard is more than just a dribbler... He has exquisite tight control of the football and is able to translate that into assists to help his side. Although oscar has indeed stagnated, he's also not the dud he appears to be today. He also has done interesting things in the past, albeit not at the same level that hazard has. the danger with Eden is that his style is very entertaining and people will overvalue him even when he's not producing anything for the team, like in this season. i am torn with Hazard: he is not irreplaceable but it is obviously very difficult to replace a player of his quality. However, if he wants to leave, he should be allowed to leave as the club is always bigger than any player. a not 100% focused hazard is not worth keeping.

1. Ok now we are discussing again. However, perhaps I fully understand your opinion, after all we are not discussing anything difficult, but disagree with it? 2. You did that first buddy... I just responded. I do call everyone who calls me out on Mikel and go on and on dissing other players (brana, Iva, Oscar, Diego, Cahill) hypocrites. Is it ok for others, but not for me? 3. Again I disagree. I doesn't matter why Mikel plays regularly, but he does. The other top top teams don't have a Mikel. Only the not so top have the flaminis, youngs, and mikels who end up starting. That's why these folks don't compete, imo. of course we should better ourselves, but to me it is silly to look for a single player, which ironically is what I do with Mikel. The difference, however, is that I get called out for criticizing Mikel, by you for example, but people on here and brana thread, never are. its absolute fine if they agree with you on that, but I disagree with them on their singling out of Oscar the same way I disagree with you; even if I agree Oscar himself has stagnated. Oscar imo is one of the least problems we have esp because we have options there.

1. I was not the one who said I wont deal with someone because I don't Like his opinions... So if some is playing the victim here, it is you. Otherwise man up and reply to me not behind my back. 2. I was not playing the victim, but rather blatantly accusing you and pretty much all who liked your post of being hypocrites. 3. Why is it fine?! Why do you think playing Mikel is less detrimental to out chances of acquiring any meaningful silverware?! bit part role?! It's the other way around: Oscar is the bit part player and Mikel is the starter or are we going to discuss that too?! I don't know if it is an English way of seeing football - that defenders are defenders and attackers are attackers, but it is oh so fucking wrong. the top teams ooze talent everyfuckingwhere on the pitch! They don't have an Isco, or a Modric, they have quality players in all areas. Let me make my point abundantly clear once again: say we replace Oscar with Messi... We will still be a worse team than Barcelona, Real, and Bayern (and possibly City next season). And I am talking about Messi not Isco....

He's a good player and still so very young... Been watching him closely in CL and still stick with my original assessment: he does have tight control and pace, which is rare. However, his demeanor on the pitch is all wrong and reckon that's what Jose saw and did not like. Once again, I don't know what the manager asked him to do, but he would run 10 yards to press... his body language was weird too esp for a CL match.

I'm so very sorry to have polluted the... hmm... very pristine hatred towards Oscar, with my hatred towards Mikel. Moderators should definitely warn people if they misplace hatred... hatred should be contained in their designated threads so to be better ... found. We shall not make comparisons and point out discrepancies, otherwise we'd have nothing to write about, since most of the time we are wrong. Now that the the experts have declared who shall take Oscar's place here, all you have to do is convince the manager - any manager will do. Maybe even any member of the coaching staff might do the trick. Don't mind if I take it with a grain of salt and wait until summer to see what happens: I'd put a lot of money in that none of the aforementioned scoped geniuses will be it. Either we buy someone ready and old enough to replace Oscar or Oscar will be here another season. The rest is dreamland... * btw, I don't really hate Mikel just don't really enjoy watching him play.

Oscar had the scope to be better than Oscar. potential does not help their cause at Chelsea. do you really expect s huge change concerning the youth policy in the summer? Because I don't. The manager will need to show results with zero job security and will play senior even squad players.

So you are claiming to know that we'd have better young AMs than Oscar and Oscar has been blocking them in the last 2-3 years he's been at the club... OK and at the same time you claim Mikel, who has been at the club for 10 years in all his mediocrity as a squad player/rotation tops, hasn't blocked a single youngster? Just because you personally rate this or that player higher than Oscar at the moment; even though the coaching staff and whoever the manager is doesn't? That's exactly the inconsistency I was referring to. moving on... Well there only so much I can read from your use of the word dedication or rather "give a fuck." ??? So you are saying a player can essentially slack during training and then show up for matches only and then if he shows he is trying hard enough that's good enough for you? How do you measure "the effort he puts in?" Is he slacking when he loses a 50/50 against a better/strong/fitter player? Have you played football and specially played against much better players than yourself? I have and let me tell you: you can put all the effort in the world and they will still embarrass you all the same. My point being is that we can't really say whether a player is or isn't putting the effort because it is very subjective. Unless you actually see him not tracking back like Hazard does (not) and *know* what the manager has asked him to do. Unless you are really referring to quality, in which case, again, has very little to do with how much someone cares about something. I care a lot about football - more than I should and yet nobody would pay me to do anything related to it... Hazard could care as much as he wants and he will still never tie Messi's boots. Same with Oscar of course. We are discussing the 0.01% here and dedication or will hardly does it. Either they have quality or they don't. And sometimes it is difficult to determine whether a young player like Oscar, Hazard or even Mikel back then is/was is going to become a really good player or not. Mikel did not; Hazard has to some extent, and Oscar's development seems to have stagnated. Yet we see it more clearly now, but it is difficult to determine when they are 20. About the CL final, well to each his own, I'd pick Lampard, Cech, Luiz, Cahill, Cole and specially drogba well ahead of Mikel in that game, but OK at least he was better than Mata and Bosingwa. We were about to lose it all the same until Didier scored out of nothing, or rather out of the single corner we had in that game (they had 20!). He was a guy who could score without service anyway. Now I still don't know why you are complaining... you don't have to suffer watching Oscar play. Don't know about your TV, but mine shows Mikel and not Oscar. I miss Jose.

Agreed on Vidal. I am terribly afraid of implementing a 3-defender system in the PL because of the width with which some teams play. I know it has been done before, but I am not crazy about it. Stick wingers on the WBs and you've just turned a 3-5-2 into a 5-3-2. Football in Italy is a lot slower and they don't have clubs like Tottenham which play exclusively on the sides of the pitch.

What you call dedication, a call quality. Fans rather say their players don't give a fuck than to say they are not as good. their work rate and ability to be all over the pitch and press high is exactly that: ability. arturo Vidal, luiz Suarez, our own Costa (when fit) are restless because that's part of their game. Same with Willin and not so long ago, Oscar himself did that. Mikel is one of the most lax players I've ever seen - and he was as bad at the rest of the squad in the beginning of the season... started for Jose too... poor form at the start of the season was a squad problem (Azpi, Zouma, and Willian being the exceptions). It you jumping into conclusions calling their issue lack of dedication. Do you know Oscar's work ethic? He could be the most dedicated player in the squad in training and physical therapy... wouldn't surprise me. It prob has nothing to do with dedication - I've played all my life with very willing players who have no business at this or even lower leagues. Lower leagues are filled with extremely dedicated players. If you say Oscar does nothing, the same can be said of Mikel. Again, his defensive stats are very low for a DM, while his attacking stats are embarrassing; these are facts. Now if he is our "best" DM, like you claim (Jose and I disagree), then that tells us more about the squad than anything else really. In my view he's not even a DM but more like a deep lying short passer, something as limited as I've ever seen. Some people value that role while others don't and there is that. btw, interesting you picked a single squad player from the list from Munich, one who will never be good enough to start for Chelsea. Mikel and Meirelles were part of the reason our midfield did not play and we produced that embarrassing performance (Mata too btw) - yes we won but because of one player: Didier! now I get that Oscar as it stands is not good enough. However when you harshly criticize Oscar while defending Mikel, well it simply makes no sense to me: you are trying to fix one blatant problem in the squad, but is kinda OK with the other one. BTW, at the moment only one of these two is a regular starter and should, but is not, evaluated in that context. All arguments you have against Oscar apply to Mikel too, esp because he's older and has been at the club for 10 years! Imagine how many youngsters have missed their chance because of him. again, I get the argument, but I feel Oscar gets more and harsher criticism than he deserves compared to other players in the squad. He gets criticized as a starter and as a rotation/squad equally.

You have no idea about what I really think of Mikel - I've been very respectful and specific on my critique. interesting standards... Do they apply to Oscar as well - just won the PL? Should we resign Meirelles, kalou, bosingwa, and Bertrand? I'm sure they would give it all as well. David luiz too? im honestly mystified by appreciating dedication from players. Football is incredibly competitive. Even in pub games you have to compete for a spot. Imagine at this level... Imagine how many players in the world would literally give anything to play for Chelsea. btw there is no option: between Mikel and Oscar only one can actually be sold (for profit) as it should be.

Unfortunately this summer won't be a good time to cash in on Oscar because he hasn't been playing. Good time for Mikel as he is finally getting some minutes. scouts have to watch the players too - hence the idea of putting them on display. a case for Oscar getting playing time in a lost season.

hehe because he's NEW!!! Wait long enough and his so great demeanor will be poison in the locker room... especially when results don't come. Players will be like, "is this dude even alive?! We are getting crushed out there! do something!" Benitez was like that too - always calm and composed. Alex Ferguson and Wenger are exceptions - for different reasons. The norm is that they don't last long because as soon something gets stale in the locker room, the quickest and easiest way to freshen the air is always to replace the manager.

yup bizarre signing to be honest. The only think I can think of is what they are observing him in training and considering his asking price isn't very high for a striker, they may pull the trigger even if he doesn't play too many games.

Preaching to the choir... I absolutely agree Mourinho has a problem as a manager and that is long term group management. He's completely incapable of pulling a Ferguson at any club. BTW, I don't even like Jose... not even about how defensive he is, but his dislike of possession. Oscar is prob playing the worse football of his career and Mikel is playing the same way he has always played - in the last 10 years at the club. I won't go there as I don't want to offend anyone. The diff is that while before he wasn't good enough to start, now he is. That tells us more about our roster than anything else really. Ironically, the difference was that Jose was trying to recover some players by sticking with them: e.g. Matic. While Hiddink picked Mikel instead which improved things a bit short term because of initial Matic's poor form. That was then though and at the moment Matic has already upped his game and IMO Mikel's selection is hurting the team in big matches. However, big matches don't matter this season too much do they? BTW, Matic's poor form was caused by the same poor fitness levels all around - big guys get even slower when unfit. Also, as pointed out before, Hiddink handling of youth has been as bad as Jose's. Baba only played because Hiddink had no other choice.

indeed - that would make it far more convenient for next time when Hiddink takes over - which will be as soon as when our next manager gets sacked...

No, I've been emphasizing that it's not a single factor. Precisely the opposite of saying Hiddink is the main factor. There was progression under jose as well. I just think (Henrique's point) that Jose leaving gave certain players a short-term morale boost, but the fitness levels had already been going up naturally. As I wrote before, I actually disagreed with Henrique who believed sacking Jose was necessary. We don't have a competitive squad, so we could be in the process of rebuilding already instead of playing the same senior players - many of which won't be here next season. BTW, it is very difficult to give shape to unfit and/or unwilling players. I've seen teams lose their shape (with the same players) during the break many times before. Perhaps not as drastically though - that's why I also think Jose losing the players was also a factor. I did not say Hiddink was doing a bad job... my point remains that perhaps other managers would've been able to accomplish the same. He's been getting results against weaker opposition and getting by, or losing, against better opposition. So, a good job? yes. He's managing an expensive squad - far more expensive than Everton's and Tottenham's, so can we say he is really overachieving with this crop of players? If we say Hiddink is overachieving (doing a great job), which implies the players are really lacking and not worth their valuations, because the results have only been decent, how can we then say Jose was underachieving back then when the same players had been far more unfit? @Muzchap fair point... he knows the club too so no need to adapt to the structure and staff. However, by the same logic shouldn't we have kept Jose then - who has done a much better job than Hiddink ever did? That's why these correlations don't work so well in football: too many variables.

Whatever... Lol identifying causation is absolutely possible and done all the time. That's a big part of my job actually. folks here, and in football in general, are the ones who have a problem with it. some times there is a direct link between cause and consequence, other times there simply isn't. it kinda makes sense some may think Hiddink is a magician though... To each his own.

Not so sure about bottom of the table, but agree sacking Jose immediately improved morale. However, the transformation wasn't that sudden to me at least. But, even in your own argument, the difference is not Hiddink, but the fact that he is not Mourinho, as I pointed out earlier. In other words, would ANY other manager be able to do similar as Hiddink, or perhaps better? We don't know. Besides, what we need is a manager, not a coach. We need a guy who can help revamp this weak squad. Like I said before, Hiddink is a waste of time as most tampon managers are. Using a temp manager is even more baffling when you consider we don't have a target perm manager yet.

You are tying (implying causation) the late results to Hiddink, which is wrong. Hiddink is one of the many variables, including form, fitness levels, and according to some people around here, the most important of all: the not Mourinho factor (anyone but Jose) Simple exercise to help determine causation: do we know how Jose would have fared had he stayed? Would the players perhaps, with time, let go of their grudges and improve their form as they have been doing? The answer is, of course, that we don't know.