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Of course fabregas should play better with Mikel! Fabregas is terrible at defending so the mere fact that Mikey's stays deep and focus on that area helps balance the midfield. Being far more rounded and making runs forward leave the other CM with defensive duties. That's pretty much like all top clubs play: two rounded cms. will this work against stronger opposition? No. neither fabregas, much less Mikel belong there.

There is no such debate as the transfer market puts them in completely different tiers. Same with Oscar, but apparently juve is a small club around here. Mikel was good today - playing against week opposition but away from home. He was under no pressure when in possession, and kept playing deep in uncontested areas. He did defend well for change though. If mikel were able to do more, over the many years he's been at the club, and against better opposition, Matic wouldn't even be on the squad! what Matic does on the pitch is far more difficult than what Mikel does. That's why Matic is priced in the 25m+ range and Mikel 10m-. (The difference may actually be much greater)

Needs to be sold so we can get someone who actually plays.

wow we are in really bad shape when we say Europe and people understand Europa League....

I'm actually very curious to know how he would fare in Europe. Type and quality of defending. Refereeing... Obviously that won't happen at Everton so even if he likes his life there he must know he's gotta move to truly test himself.

Willian has had a good patch of good form, which began towards the end of last season, but I don't forget the first part of the season when Willian was pulling an Oscar.They are both industrious players with little creativity and produce little upfront. At their best, Oscar was actually better, but it's been so long we don't remember. They are also not exactly at the same stage in their careers. Not surprising Willian is the more composed (like you said).

All he has to to is work on his free kicks - aside from that Willian and Oscar are very similar and people seem to love Willian around here.

Only one of these players played at the highest level for long stretches of time (for us and previous club) and yet he gets put in the same bucket as others who have never showed and consistency at same high level in their entire careers. * not my opinion only: go back to winning season and check ratings/stats pundits. I know which players will turn good again once we get the teamwork is back... the ones who were good once.

agreed. Mikel isn't loyal - he is unambitious. Or perhaps he is very ambitious about money ONLY! Perhaps he and his agent know he cannot do better, and/or he and his family, are comfortable with life in London, who knows?! Players are NOT loyal to their clubs! Just like people are not loyal to companies/business they work for. because being loyal to a company or club would be fucking STUPID and I hope he and his agent are smarter than that. Companies and clubs are NOT loyal to players and professionals. The point, however, is whether we can have a fit replacement at the moment (bought or young) or we have other areas that demand more immediate attention. I also ^^ tend to believe our expensive coaching staff on whether RLC is ready or not.

The point is to get someone better and/or younger - perhaps RLC to play more.If that's not possible - financially or RLC turns not that great or too green - then yes keep him. He's on a 75k a week though which makes it a lot of money per minute play.

let me put it this way: even if we remained playing like shit, we would still climb up the table just because of Courtois. He seems to be back - what a performance against United!

Nonsense, fabregas would provide the munch needed steel they(Arsenal) need in midfield.........

well he's kinda cute ...

Well when you start Mikel and Matic in the CM role we are less likely to score goals - not really surprising is it? Sometimes stats don't lie. Unfortunately the only dynamic CM we've got can't pass the football at all.

he considers it for about a sec then he remembers the number of zeroes on his paycheck.

Agreed that he has to play like he did against Sunderland far more often and in my mind that's still not a creative #10 but more on an industrious one - say Willian. Now asking what a player wants to do means very little. The #10 doesn't have a definition as a role. Even famous #10s of the past have had different characteristics. Maradona would have been more of a CM these days while Pele a striker. Zidane was pretty much a CM like Modric is and also a #10. Hazard told Jose he plays best centralized. He was/is wrong. His style of play belongs in the wings.

One interesting thing that happens here often is that our very expensive coaching staff is completely ignored when we discuss team and lineups, which is silly especially now with a new manager and a temp one at that. This team was the coaching staffs not his. And he will be listening to them again and again so I do t expect drastic changes.

yeah ! like I wrote on the other thread that would even help the midfield too! a guy who can tackle and intercept high up the pitch and carry the ball with confidence (and technique) forward, joining the midfield. The other one to cover we already have (Zouma).

not necessarily a tackle, but merely standing your ground - especially inside the box - is the way to go.

Yes, you can say that CMs are the midfield in system like 442/4411/352, but not in the 4231.... Yes, our problem is in midfield, and no Fabregas and Matic are not the midfield. They are maybe 50% responsible, but in the system we play the AMs should be helping solidify the middle and they haven't been able to do that. You can go even further and say that our old school defenders also aren't able to help the midfield and remain quite isolated - at least in comparison to sides that go for total football (barca and bayern).

He may have done the job, but was it a job in need of doing?I see Fabregas and Mikel in a very similar way. Mikel is too much of a short passer (and nothing else); long balls are far more important for the role. He's also calm, composed and slow, which is also not what the role requires - DMs need to be dynamic and decisive. They need pace to recover because the very defensive ones are essentially defenders playing in the middle. Fabregas is the polar opposite. He's dynamic, but has no strength or power (Mikel has plenty of strength). He cannot tackle to save his life, but he adds a lot of creativity if you can afford having him there. I personally think you can't (have Fabregas in a CM), but I also think you cannot have Mikel there either. At least top top teams should aim for having better than both... but can't really say we are a top team at the moment...

So, for the same of argument let's say he did play well - though i still find difficult to see it (different discussion). Now, the big question, concerning this match (Watford), is why did we play freaking Watford @ the bridge with both Mikel and Matic in the second half? Just check their attacking stats. Having them both on the pitch makes us LESS likely to score. Yes, we should have more of the ball and be able to defend better but we were losing the match at the time...

More like coaching staff loves him, but not so much the managers. Mikel has never played less than under Jose. Even considering AFCON weaker opposition, Mikel does play better for Nigeria and it is also because he doesn't play as a DM. I have watched many DMs in my life and the best ones were like Roy Keane. They may be more technically gifted, like Viera, or less, like Keane, but they all bust their balls tracking back and joining the defense when the play was past them. Mikel just does not do that. He seems to be a very specialized player with few virtues, which means he needs a team that play to his strengths - like Nigeria does. And TBH he's more praised here than by Nigeria fans - who after all are used to the likes of Okocha leading their side. Their expectations for their #10 were/are higher I guess. Back to Oscar, maybe the point is that I've never seen him as a #10 and neither do Chelsea - since he wears #8. I see him as a more industrious player who can contribute playing alongside more creative/attacking minded ones... like Hazard or KDB. That doesn't excuse his long bad patches though, so again, I am not disagreeing that at this time Oscar may be insufficient, but rather that he may also get unfairly criticized for a role that isn't really his.

Fair enough and it's one way to see it. I for one believe that it's very difficult to get the most of the players when they have no competition. It can be done, but doesn't last. Is Diego Costa afraid of losing his position? Is Matic? Jose played Matic in every freaking game since he signed him. Then people, sometimes the same ones, complain that the young don't play. Well Mikel 28/29 yo needs minutes to, so he will play ahead of RLC and others. Logically, this whole thing makes little sense in my mind... but I guess controversy is good for TC. @LDN Blue posted Mikel's stats on defending in his thread a week ago or so - whether he "does the job" is also debatable.

That's really not my point though. I am not questioning whether he is good enough or not... just that in my head we cannot call Oscar 'shit' and at the same time say Mikel "does a job". Neither player is 'shit' but I personally think that Oscar is FAR closer to "good enough" than most other players who get a pass for one reason or another. Especially considering he's still fairly young. @LDN Blue can't agree with that really. However weak, however poor Fabregas may be - I am not a fan - he's twice the player Mikel is.