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Right but I was not the one making the correlation, you were.

The thing is that mikeI is also not that great defensively. His defending numbers don't add up and there are better def midfielders even in smaller sides. Not to mention pacey midfielders just run past him with ease, like KdB did. after the game he had against city I'd expect people to be more upset, but I guess mikeI is just accepted for who he is. btw, not a big fan of Fabregas either, but he belongs to a higher tier.

Yeah our results corroborate this very balanced point of view of yours.

Please don't argue about the point of Oscar being shit or not... that's not it. You think he is shit, and I agree he's been shit... IMO the others are equally shit, hence the results, but I digress. My point remains that this is the time to play: a - youngsters, so they get minutes and show whether they can be used right away or not b - players who you want to sell: put them on display so scouts can sell the idea to other clubs.

That's the only offer that does not matter... he won't move to china at this stage in his career. I hope Juventus is still in for him though. The club cannot force a player to take an offer. Especially one with so many caveats attached to it.

that's not how scouts work... they can certainly separate team from player performance and adjust accordingly. They look at specific attributes, under pressure and not, to create a profile. if the player doesn't play, he is essentially not in the market and it takes more work from his agent. If form was so important, we could let go every single player we got and get the replacement from Leicester. The odds of those players having another magical season are very low though. Teams always think they can recover a player who's had a bad season elsewhere, because if they do, it's a cheaper option. * btw I and going by what I hear that we need cash in to fund the much needed transfers.

Arsenal's magical run is the story... Wenger has the best job on earth - thought it was hiddink, but wenger has the same job, but longer term.

My post was not clear - I saw he was the CAM and thought as a CAM he is awful. It's not like he lacks something to be a CAM, he lacks every single attribute for the position. So, considering he may be more suited for a CM role, I am analyzing him as such.

Hiddink is the waster... he's wasting one of the most precious things in football (and life): time. You missed my point though. We are playing for nothing now. So, the club - please ignore tampon manager for now - may want to put the players they want to sell on display. Let others see them week in week and out and perhaps someone may be enticed. For example, it may have become easier now to sell Mikel... well barring the last game (city) when he was below his usual.

Fabregas' limitations are well known. The problem is exacerbated when the player playing next to him is just as, or more, immobile. After Ramires was sold I thought hey, perhaps we are going to get a dynamic CM, but nope... perhaps Oscar will play there... nope. Perhaps RCL will look sharper and run a bit more... nope he's an AM now. It's not just the manager - the people 'helping' the manager seem lost, because this 'lack of ideas' linger on regardless of manager.

We could've looked very different had Hiddink tried different ideas too: moving Oscar into CM after Ramires was sold, moving fabregas up the field a bit. Change formation, but his lineups were the same that jose had tried earlier this season. I know people like Hiddink from the previous job he did, but he looks out of ideas to be honest.

oscar as poor as he has been this season would have improved the team today; esp if in the CM position. hiddink has been saying that he's giving minutes to the aspiring players. It's funny how we use 'can't get a game' vs 'won't be given a start' depending on the point we want to make. if I hated Oscar like many here do, I'd actually be quite nervous that he is not playing.

Great performance against city today! a year ago his calmness was an asset, now it's because he doesn't care...

Did well for a young player, but it doesn't look it's the right position for him. at this time it would be quite difficult to fit him in a system. He's just too lax for the cm role... Well I guess same as mikel... Anyways, and he does not have enough in the final third. His shooting is all over the place - far from this level.

yeah for me Mikel is doing a job that is not in need of doing... that's why you don't see other mikels in any remotely big clubs out there; yes, we are the only "big" club starting a "limited" player (term used by his fans to describe him) I'd call him something entirely different though. Another way of looking is how many players could do Mikel's job, and provide something extra (aka not being as limited)? I could name a few who play for small sides in England. personally I think Cahill is limited, while Mikel is a bit below that. Sorry I just don't buy Hiddink the savior story. It's fictional at best. What did he do really? Play Mikel?! Jose started Mikel against Everton and Porto because he was also fed up with Matic. The squad was just completely unfit then and would have lost to anyone, as they did. The squad is fitter now and play just as shitty football, but at least they can run.

No I don't - he had his chance at Chelsea and he blew it. Oscar leaving solves only one of the 7+ problems the squad has - not if you follow this thread though.

Still second tier though. i didn't say coutinho I isn't better - actually between the two only coutinho is or has improved. my prob with this thread is the focus on Oscar and some folks ignore the other mediocres. either valuations matter or they don't. If they don't, then why do we expect more from Oscar ? Because he is #10 even if he isn't ? my point remains Oscar has been just mediocre as a number of the other players. If some here have high expectations towards him that's hardly Oscars problem.

The love that some here show for counting is really touching. he's difiniy improving, but still vanishes in tough matches... Never delivers for Brazil for the same reason.

Can only sell the players who can be sold. oscar used to be easier to sell, but getting increasingly more difficult. others don't have any market value, so they stay.

They are better in pretty much every position... Just in one position, in center midfield, we are not much worse. Yes I still think Mikel is awful, but Fernandinho is very close... I mean he can actually play football: you know score goals, long balls, switch play, the stuff real players usually do. However, I was wrong about him; Fernandinho has as little composure as David Luiz: terrible positioning, awareness, and attitude. So, in his own way, Fernandinho also stands out. Man City have been pretty average to be honest, but average will mostly like do against us.

Ironically, I think Mata and Oscar are very similar players: not in characteristics mind you, but in that they are both equally ineffective. Oscar has one thing going for him, which is youth. He may change teams, countries, and leave the slump he's in - yes, he has played better! After admitting that Oscar has been crap for a very long time, I cannot, for the life of me, understand how people come here to write Oscar is mediocre when half of the squad is equally mediocre. As bad as Oscar has been, he is still sought after, which is more than some of our players can say - they will be moving to china soon because that's their only market.

that'd once again point to a failure in the management at chelsea, who should've identified a problem before it actually became a problem. It sounds like a hindsight kinda thing, but that's why they make good money and should indeed see the shortcomings of certain players early on and act accordingly. If Hazard had his one fantastic season for us, then the staff should have realized and sold him at max value. There is only one way about it: either they are right and that was not Hazard's only great season, or he will never reach this valuation again. Personally, although I hope Hazard has more to offer, I have little faith in the staff and think there is just too much bias there. We tend to ride the waves a bit too long, which doesn't quite work in the transfer market where you have to be proactive: sell players when they are playing at their best (like stocks). Again, it's counter intuitive, but if it was easy anyone could do it. Plus there have been chronic problems in center midfield for quite a while, over multiple managers, which does not bode well for the staff. Either they are clueless, don't have a say, or both.

RLC as a #10 really ?! Wow!? After all that moan about how Oscar is a nothing player and now we have the least creative youngster we've got as a #10? Btw I know Oscar is not a 10-given up trying to convince people that the number in his back is actually 8 and that the sky is usually blue.

If you are matic, who was one of our best players in our title winning season, and then you have a bad season. A tampon manager comes along and plays mikel fucking obi ahead of you, and the club is ok with it...then just pack your things and go. dont be like the guy who now plays in your position, who now only at 28 has magically acquired the talent to start for Chelsea. leave while you can! Money isn't everything... The best players will go in this window and you should too. We don't like talent, only composure. You can do the most absurd things as long as you do them confidently - works for mr trump... thanks for everything.

Sure, but supporters tend to talk about games only and not consider that players also need motivation in practice, sometimes even more so. So they can stay fit and deliver on game day. mu original point is that torres looks fitter, slimmer than when he was with us. It might be just motivation, being home and all, but remembering the very round form of our players beginning of the season, perhaps our fitness preparation isn't or hasn't been that great ?