Las7

I'm sure that if Cesar; Bertrand; Romeu and Moses(on the right wing) had played we still would have ended up with a similar result. I personally believe that a lot of the veterans didn't show enough intensity in the first 70 minutes.

Whole team was "off" for the first 70 minutes. We were outplayed for most of the match but somehow won 4-0 I wish more teams would outplay us like this

Well it would not have been a topic had Arsen started Mertesacker - he started Koscielny instead and I would say that turned out to be key for us, so much so that Koscielny did more for our two goals than even Mata It was awful defending on both goals, so it's obvious pundits will talk about why change something that worked pretty well against City.

He was a handful but didn't get the ball enough - sadly for Brom they had injury troubles so they couldn't really bring on a fresher midfielder so mostly when Lukaku got the ball he was isolated, with no one to lay it off to.

I'd feel equally confident of getting a win against Nordsjaella as I would with Norwich with this team.

Of course Ramires; Mikel; Torres; Ivanvovic would be on the bench. I'd even think about A.Cole but he was rested mid week against Wolves. I would also say that it's all about mentality if RdM makes it clear to our reserves that this is their chance to prove themselves than obviously there won't be any underrating of the opposition and the young players we have out there will be hungry to prove themselves, same as the Wolves game pretty much. It's one of the advantages of having a large squad like ours. MU's problem is their central midfield take away a few players there and pretty much any team can dominate their midfield and starve their strikers for opportunities.

Are you saying we won't win if we play Moses; Romeu; Lampard; Cesar and Sturridge?

I don't understand people being against resting a few players for this game, we just came out of the Arsenal game have a game mid week and have Norwich next weekend - these two games are equally important even though it's against possibly the worse team in the EPL and worse team in our CL group. Besides I don't think a team without Ramires; Torres; Mikel; Ivanovic and Hazard for example is going to be unable to beat either of these two opponents. To me it's actually a great time to rest up Mikel and Ivanovic, Torres provided that Sturridge is fully fit. I don't think Oscar/Hazard and Mata will play together as starters for both of these games in any case. So Lampard and Romeu for the midfield, with either Mata or Oscar in front of them. Moses on the right and either Mata or Hazard on the left. If Sturridge isn't fully fit start Torres and sub him off early in the second half.

I've stated many times that Torres has until January to convince me - he needs a minimum of 15 goals in all comp and 6 winners/opening goals to do so. I still maintain that he has not done enough to warrant an automatic selection this season as he has been given and I will continue to want to see Sturridge played two games back to back leading our attack. So far 2 winners/opening goals and 5 goals which is a good return by Torres this season. For me it has always been about the goals and who they are scored against - I'd prefer he scores most of his goals in the EPL.

Great first half I though, was poor in the second half - but overall I'm very pleased with his performance tonight. He scored a crucial goal finally for the Blues and needs to keep scoring if he is to justify his automatic selection in our team.

Yeah that was not a penalty, just a funny and unlucky situation for Torres due to him insisting on going around the keeper instead of either shooting or lobbing the keeper

Torres had a shot at the end should do that more often without over thinking matters. Good half by him, decent by Hazard and Mata - Oscar hasn't been that good though but at the end of the first half he was finally getting into the game.

LoL Torres, from one end of the spectrum to the other He missed the ball again, no peno

Finally great goal by Torres!

It's perfectly normal for the media to make headlines, the "witch hunt" is part of a top footballer's daily live, if he cannot deal with hit pieces from the Media he has no place at the very top of the footballing spectrum. It's perfectly valid for fans to call his performances into question, it's perfectly valid to ask why is Torres the first choice striker for the European Champions when he is and has always been a lesser player than the top strikers around the world. Why are we building a team around our weakest link - Torres had a worse goal per game ratio than all club top scorers in the England except Franco Di Santo for Wigan. You can question the service for a striker to a certain extend but there is a lot of hyperbole surround the issue of Torres and Service - Torres receives the ball, is usually unable to beat a defender, takes a touch too many when he wants to shoot(trying to move the ball to his left boot); or simply reverts into his protective shell by passing it off to someone else who can carry the burden of responsibility. At a top club you need a top striker not someone mentality weak who shies away from the responsibly and hides behind his markers instead of trying to beat them. When a ball is crossed into the box, Torres cannot get in front of his marker in order to deflect it towards the goal - and that's one of the things any striker at top level should be able to do whether he is big or small. Beating your marker to the ball and deflecting the ball should be your #1 priority when you see your team mates on the flank. What usually happens is that either Torres remains static behind his marker or he is too far away from the danger area to really impact the situation. This is unacceptable, the instinct to be infront of a defender when a pass is delivered and to either get a first time shot or shield the ball is the bread and butter of a forward and Torres has not been doing it since he arrived at the Bridge. If he actually tried to be get into such a position his tally would not be as abysmal as it stands right now. I've no clue where you are heading with this argument, Torres needs to be scoring winners, winning us points that's all that matters in the League. You could score 1 goal against all your opponents and not concede and your goal total will be 39 goals it would still make you Champions. When your First Choice Striker cannot score a winner without being provided with a tap in from 1 meter out than you have serious problems on your hands. Thus far Torres has proved he is quite good against the QPRs; Leicester Citys; Genks and Wolves of the World and that he would help us humiliate some weak teams when we are already leading. His other goals didn't win us points or games. Forget the transfer fee, look at his wage, he is the best paid player at the club. There are certain expectations from a player demanding that type of wage thus far that money is being pissed away - he is not playing for the love of the game that's for sure. I'm not sure why you try to boil the discussion down to an emotional angle - there is far more reasons to criticize Torres and to want an alternative than there is to support him. Making him our first choice striker after the one and a half years we have witnessed him struggle was realative to shooting ourselves in the foot this year, not signing another striker during the summer and letting go of Lukaku is pretty much shoving a gun in our mouth and playing Russian roulette. I'm sure you would also agree that Real Madrid signing Beckham instead of Ronaldinho is a stroke of genius as well - they must of made millions from that brilliant move. Let's not even delve into C.Ronaldo because for me he is worth every penny, and I'm not talking about shirt sales which sound like a joke. Do we care about Shirt Sales after winning the CL. The key thing is that Torres used to have the capabilities, he hasn't showed them at Chelsea. Whether it's his injuries that have taken a yard off pace of his game - pretty much nullifying his key trait which made him so dangerous when he started playing in England or confidence issues we haven't seen his a World Class player in the last 2 years. Torres doesn't offer as much to his game as guys like Kun; Rooney; Tevez; Berbatov; Ibra; Drogba; Villa; etc when he is not scoring. Torres was bought to score goals at Chelsea FC a thing he has not been doing at the level required for a first choice player at a top club. I've addressed your point earlier in this post, I will also say that Torres struggles to shoot or beat his men which coupled with his inability to find space in front of his marker leads or make runs into the box when the ball is obviously going to be played there has lead to his downfall. Palette of Competence? Dribbling skills - above average First touch - average Passing - good Crossing - good Movement off the ball - Erratic Finishing - abysmal I don't post for you, I'm just providing a counter weight to people who hide their head in the sand while their World is crushing around them.

Falcao also played next to Hulk, he played all types of games and with all types of teams - even against teams who parked the bus against Atletico and Porto whether it was in the League or the Europa League. If Falcao fails to score in his first 9 games and than fails to score in 24 hours of football this might become an issue - what the Torres saga has taught me is that fans back "particular" players for an infinite amount of time even though they obviously are not performing the duties which they were signed for. I don't know if it's golden hair or his price tag but the amount of support that Torres has received and continues to receive and the amount of excuses I hear here and in other forums is just starting to drive me mad. No other striker has been cut as much slack as Torres in my footballing life and I've been watching football since 1994 when I was 8 years old. Drogba a Chelsea Legend deserved this type of support, yet it's given to some mercenary who isn't doing what we bought him for, he isn't doing what is expected from a World Class striker, he isn't even taking shots or getting into position where a lucky ricochet might just allow him to put the ball in the back of the net. How many times have we crossed the ball with Torres either being marked out or not even in the box? I've personally lost count. Now I know crosses isn't the thing that Torres is looking for but for a player being paid 14 million pounds per year he better be in the box trying to beat his marker to the ball. I can imagine Falcao scoring more winners in 6 months than Torres has done in 1 and half years at Chelsea FC - Torres has ONE winner, there is no excuse for such a pathetic statistic, you would expect such a thing from a guy like Mikel not from our FIRST CHOICE striker. Torres has had a chance at a big club and woopty do - him and Andy Carroll are the laughing stock of the Footballing World. At least Andy Carroll isn't the 7th highest paid footballer in the World and Liverpool will probably make back 50% of their investment - Torres is a footballing and financial void for this club and the sooner it's realized the better. Are you saying Torres is creating chances for himself? Falcao must be quite fortuned play with the best teams ever since he is scoring for Colombia(0.4 goals per match); River Plate(0.44 goals per match); Porto(0.89 goals per match) and Atletico(0.82 goals per match); without making any chances for himself. Meanwhile Torres with his much better chance creating skills plays at far worse teams Spain(0.31 goals per match) the poster child of under performing National Teams, all strikers struggle there so much so that their coach plays some midfielder up top to keep possession. Atletico(0.37 goals per match) - they couldn't even win a Europa League back when Torres played there, signed jokers like Forlan; Aguero and Faclao to replace Torres but they all failed there; Liverpool(0.57 goals per match) waited for Torres to leave before winning a trophy; Chelsea(0.21 goals per match) we kept him on the bench instead of starting him, otherwise we would have surely dominated Barca and Bayern. In summery after reviewing the facts I completely agree, Torres is the best striker ever - as the last 2 years clearly prove. Even with limited opportunities to score and making only 79 appearances - Torres has set the World on Fire. We clearly don't need to sign another striker because Torres is better than Rooney; RvP; Aguero; Tevez combined.

We are definetly trying to sign him, it's another matter if cash strapped Madrid will actually decide to let go of their prized asset. I'm sure if there is 20 million euro profit to be made, they will surely consider it very seriously - because Falcao is also their best paid player so they would also be deducting his wage from their expenses. Atletico Madrid owe over €160m in tax to the Spanish government while their total debt is over €517m. Currently it will take them at least 20 years to fully repay the €160m, assuming they don't increase it. Last month, their Europa League price money was taken away from them by UEFA due to their tax debt, as part of the first forms of punishment in Financial Fairplay. The only way I can forsee Madrid keeping him over the winter transfer window is if they are challanging for the title - perhaps in that case they might be able to afford to wait for the best possible deal in the summer while gaining further limelight and possibilities for commercial revenue.

I've said my expectations from Torres till January is 15 goals in all competitions and at least 6 of these goals need to be goals which win us points. It's a major problem for me that his only winner is his goal against Reading, that's actually my main gripe with him I'd be fine if he is a 20 goals per season striker if he actually scored some crucial goals.

OMFG Hope Madrid play ball

Lampard should be playing in front of the double pivot - when he does play. Play Romeu; Ramires and Mikel in the double pivot Lamps/Oscar/Mata in the position in front of it. Lampard could have played in the double pivot in his prime - but he was simply more effective in a position that gave him more attacking freedom. I still feel Frank has things he can give to this club but more in a Giggs or Scholes role, if he has problems being mostly a substitute or not playing he can move on.

Cesar has a funky sounding name

I meant he had a better chance of scoring than Torres regardless of the position or situation

By the sound of things Marin should have tried to score

Moses with his first goal!

Marin coming for Mata