Las7

Ivanovic our best striker this season?

Moses for Torres at some point?

Damn, well worked by Oscar but just could not either place the shot or get more power to it.

Mikel's shooting

Another fantastic pass by Mata and great first time finish for Hazard!

Lampard !

He scores when he doesn't think !

Norwich wouldn't be a thread if our first 11 took em seriously - should have bough in some hungry players for this game instead of our first 11.

**** me sideways

How many ****ing times will that happen with Torres, take the damn shot!

He was injured before the Olympics, he became fit enough to play at the Olympics and was deemed fit enough to be on the bench at the start of the season he was on the bench against Man City; Wigan; Reading; Newcastle; Atletico; QPR; Man City - so I'm not sure whether you guys have no clue about who is injured and who is on the bench for a large portion of the season or you are playing dumb

I recommend you use capital letters next time that would surely get your point across about Torres's contribution.

I think you are unable to read, I've said that he barely featured before he got injured. The quote I gave was before he was even confirmed to be injured.

Right, cause we have made that judgement based on 10 matches this season. I will tell you that for the 7th best paid footballer on the planet and our undisputed number one up top he is not setting the world on fire. Lets give Sturridge or Lukaku 1000 minutes on the field, barely even subbing them off and we shall see how they do in such an environment. Torres has scored a goal for every 193 minutes he has been on the field he has had plenty of opportunities to have a far better record than this. Yet you are saying this is great and I shall be called into question regarding his treatment and asking serious questions about his form. 2009 - 2010 Top Goalscorers minutes per goal 1) Wayne Rooney - 95 minutes 2) Didier Drogba - 101 minutes 3) Darren Bent - 144 minutes 4) Jermaine Defoe - 123 minutes 5) Torres - 98 minutes Tevez - 137 minutes 2010 - 2011 Top Goalscorers minutes per goal 1. Dimitar Berbatov - 110,35 minutes 2. Carlos Tevez - 126 minutes 3. Robin v. Persie - 98,333 minutes 4. Darren Bent - 185 minutes 5. Peter Odemwingie - 174,67 minutes 2011 - 2012 Top Goalscorers minutes per goal 1. Robin Van Persie - 117 minutes 2. Wayne Rooney - 110 minutes 3. Sergio Aguero - 116 minutes 4. Emanuel Adebayor - 174 minutes 5. Clint Dempsey - 206 minutes Current Top Goalscorers minutes per goal 1) Demba Ba - 66 minutes 2) Robin Van Persie - 80 minutes 3) Steven Fletcher - 66 minutes 4) Luis Suarez - 108 minutes 5) Peter Crouch - 126 minutes Meanwhile Torres has scored a goal in every 176 minutes in the League while we are top of the league. I'm still waiting for a return I can get excited about but I will say that the situation with Torres is like the infinite monkeys theorem. Torres of 09 is gone and the new one is paid far too much for the output he provides. My opinion remains - if we had persisted with any of our young forwards as much as Torres they would have at the very least have a similar input in terms of goals or possibly a better return. That's my perspective on the matter, for an automatic first choice striker he is simply not at the required level - hasn't been since 09-10 season. What trends await us in the future who knows but I know there is far more chances for him to get worse in 1-2 years then regain the level that he had in 09-10. If you think it's plastic on my part to expect a certain standard from a mercenary who joined us to win Trophies that's fine by me, I've supported all our Players when I'm at the Bridge, but on a football forum I will vent whatever things I feel are wrong with our squad. To me Torres still remains a huge weight, and it would take a lot more than what he has shown thus far this season for me to change my mind - because I've based my opinion on far more than 10 games this season.

Oscar also came on after the Olympics and played a part of far more minutes before getting the nod against Juve. Oscar played a total of 110 minutes before getting his start against Juve while Sturridge has had 50 minutes during that same time frame. Below is a total time on the field before his injury compared to other strikers/forwards in the league:

Sturridge and Lukaku have Started 2 Games up top for Chelsea FC during the last 2 years. We have played Torres every game and only given Sturridge about 50 minutes on the field since the start of the season, Sturridge isn't going to stay at Chelsea to play in the Carling Capital Cup and other meaningless games when Torres needs a rest. He needs to be given 2-3 games on the trot up top leading the line, the way we have continued to do with Torres even when he went 24 hours without a goal, not 10-20 minutes at the end of a match. I've brought up the issue in the Sturridge thread and have made the point that our second strikers have less time combined on the field than 3rd choice strikers in other clubs challenging/playing in the CL. He might play at a lesser club like Liverpool but what's important for him is that he plays. The current policy is driving him out, there was a lot of rumours that Remy failed a medial which forced RdM to keep Sturridge - like I've said what we are doing with Sturridge is criminal and he will easily outscore Torres if given the same amount of time on the field - because he creates chances for himself and doesn't rely on service as much as Nando. Right now to me it seems unrealistic that Torres will be rested to 2-3 games unless he gets injured or suspended. So by the winter we will have a player on his way out.

I've always maintained that what we are doing to Sturridge is criminal, he was available first 7 games of this season and he played a total of 50 minutes. I don't know the exact reasons behind this staggering fact other than Torres needing to gel with the new players and gain confidence but even at MU while RvP has played a lot to get used to his new team mates they have continued to give far more minutes to Welbeck and Hernandez. He was barely given a chance before we signed Torres when Anelka and Drogba were out of sorts, loaned out he showed his capability leading the line at Bolton but when he returned we marooned him on the right wing. I don't think he is any more selfish than the likes of Nani; Sinclair; Moses; Walcott stats disprove such a thing out of those players Sturridge played the most through balls last season from the right wing. His main problem is decision making because he relies on instinct - if he was trained to be a right winger and had worked on his weaker foot for crossing he would be able to have more options when playing on the right. Last year he was adapting but you could see it was natural for him to cut in and take a shot with his stronger foot. If he isn't given any time until the winter transfer break I can see him handing in a transfer request even before his contract is up, he knows he needs to play and he knows he is good enough to be playing up top. I highly doubt Sturridge playing up top would have a worse return than Torres and Drogba especially now as we are starting to create more chances, some people overlook the fact that all these times they say Sturridge was selfish the only reason he had a chance to take a shot is due to his own abilities to beat a defender and get himself in a shooting position something Torres is failing to do as he gets closed down around the box and is unable to free himself. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEFoRghwC9w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEFoRghwC9w[/url[/media] He had 6 penalties last season, although he is absolutely fantastic inside the box beating a defender - he is able to do it in a variety of ways. Some of his goals require shooting technique which is superior to your run of the mill poacher. He can half volley; volley; head it in; shoot from distance; chip the goal keeper from distance; show great technique in confined quarters; and on top of that his movement inside the box is absolutely what you'd expect from a guy wanting to score goal. I'd like for you to go further, who is this player you are talking about - who is the next Del Piero/Totti? Would he be available for Chelsea? Football is a simple game, putting the ball in the back of the net is a simple task to ask from a player. The problem is that despite it being a very simple task - there is only a few players who are truly lethal at it. I don't know if Falcao will net 30 goals and we would win every trophy, the important thing to me is how many winners will Falcao score for CFC. He does the simple things correct and thus gives himself a better chance to finish off crosses, to score tap ins, to get himself in a shooting position inside the box or outside, he beats his markers inside the box. And he has done this in the Portuguese League and in La Liga. He has 40 appearances and 36 goals in Europe during his time in Madrid and Porto, Aguerro 38 appearances and 19 goals, while Forlan was 16 goals in 45 appearances. The Madrid squad back than was far better than the one currently. Mario Jardel was a beast for Porto but he made the wrong career choices after his stint there, he never made the step up into the top leagues until it was too late. He is a legend in Portugal for what he did with Sporting and Porto during his time there, he could have easily made the step up after his Porto time to a bigger club but instead he decided to get a big pay check from Gala where he had injury problems but still managed 11 goals in 17 appearances for them in Europe.

I don't think you know what one dimensional striker means. Having a side setup around a player doesn't make the player one dimensional - it makes the side one dimensional. If the player requires a particular type of service and cannot cope with anything else "hint people going on about Torres struggling due to no through balls being played into his feet or people saying Jan Koller was one dimensional due to needing crosses" that would make the striker one dimensional. Usually if you hear a striker being one dimensional it's guys that score 50% of their goals with their head(or 50% of his goals from a particular type of service); the type of strikers that Stoke usually buys for example - they are mostly one dimensional because there is a certain way Stoke plays that requires a bulldozer up top with Crouchy being an exception to their usual targets.

I don't understand your point Spike, our squad is miles ahead of Madrid - they have been selling their best players and Falcao deal was financed from an investor group since all their player sales and even their Europa Prize money has been used to repay debts. They still owe money to Porto for the Falcao transfer. The biggest transfer outside of Falcao is Turan for 11 million - we sign teenagers for more money. Considering Falcao cost more than their entire team it's natural that a club facing the kind of hardship Madrid does is going to base their game around their best asset. Compare Atletico to some other club, like Liverpool for example - all their strikers sucked last season so their goals were from variation of players. This doesn't make better em better than Madrid in anyway.

What I've noticed is that Torres does a lot of thing which most forward don't - he remains around the penalty spot when our players(attacking midfielders or full backs) get to a crossing position, expecting for someone to play the ball into his feet, or he remains behind a defender expecting the defender to miss the ball in order for him to be left with an easy opportunity. Normally a striker would be on the back of the defender on the near or far post trying to get into a position which would allow him to get a touch on the ball before the defender. Other thing I've noticed is that Torres lacks behind other players when we are moving quickly towards the penalty box, he receives the ball plays it to someone else and remains outside of the box while our midfielders/defenders would often times find themselves in a position which should be taken by our CF. He also drifts to the wing trying to escape the clutches of the central defenders guarding him but that leads to lack of options for through balls or leads to guys like Oscar; Ramires; Hazard and Mata having to play with their backs to the goal. These are things which can be overlooked if they weren't happening in 90% of time, but over the last 2 years these are the reasons why he is not getting into goal scoring positions as often as he should be. If he was doing these things more often than not he would have been awarded goals like the one he had against Reading a lot more often. I'm not bemoaning his erratic first touch; the many touches he continues to take which lead to him being closed down; or his inability to beat defenders with speed and acceleration like he used to - I'm bemoaning simple things which enable even Strikers less Talented than Torres to end up outscoring him in less games. Falcao is a master of doing simple things right - finishing is a simple part of the game but very few players have the required mentality to do it at the rate Falcao does. He has a superior first touch to Torres and he is far more agile in areas where you need your striker to beat his marker and get a foot to the ball. Berbatov was not signed on one particular asset, he was signed for a combination of qualities that we can all clearly see - those qualities never disappeared but Chica and Welbeck were preferred because they were able to adapt to Rooney far better than Berbatov. It's simply a question of whether you would ask a club to adapt to a player and whether there is enough profit in adapting to him instead of trying other more suitable options. Right now we have enough players to provide chances to a player like Falcao as proved by our last few games when things are starting to click - what we want is a striker who would have at the very least a 1 in 2 conversation rate when he is faced with a clear goal scoring opportunity. Now I personally think we have such players at our disposal but choose not to play them. It's obvious we won't start a lesser name ahead of Torres unless he is injured; suspended or tired, to a certain degree our managers are pressured into playing him due to his wage; transfer fee; big name status etc. We made a huge gamble not signing another forward in the summer - thus far everything is working out great, Torres is finding some goal scoring form - we are winning points in the CL and EPL. But concerns still remain we cannot afford not to have someone to put away chances leading our line - what Torres provides as far as linking up with players around him is overrated because a lot of the time it's Torres escaping from responsibility laying it off to someone instead of doing what a striker would do naturally and that would be trying to score or at the very least when you lay it off to someone have the decency to continue your run into the box so you could be an option there - hell Lampard made himself the best goal scoring midfielder in the World just by doing that - ghosting into the box after he has laid it off to someone else.

Nope, I feel Torres is suited to one way of playing and that's a counter attacking team like Liverpool - but due to his loss of speed he wouldn't be as good even playing for such a side. That's the main reason he has had such a subpar record with Spain and Chelsea. He was asked to be in an environment which is different than his preferred way of playing and he is not a good enough footballer to adapt his game and fulfil his duties as first choice striker. You deduct some conclusion that isn't even hinted by me, I don't see a reason to twist around your arguments and come up with some crazy conclusions about what you were actually "thinking" I think it will be pretty clear what my main concern is, and why I feel the need for us to sign Falcao if we aren't going to give any of our own players a chance to play two consecutive games up top. If you feel there is a better player out there to score goals for us who would be available - please go right ahead and tell us who.

1) Tell that to the people who have said we have build the side around Drogba and that's the reason that Torres is struggling. I'm personally pretty happy we had a side build around our best players instead of trying to build a side around a player who has been struggling for 2 years and has little hope of replicating his top form. 2) Falcao is there to score chances not to give out assists, hence his record in terms of goal scoring is far better than Drogba's. If we wanted a forward to replicate what Drogba did then our only option would have been Zlatan.

It's ludicrous down playing Falcao for his achievements at Atletico and Porto, by using the argument that the whole team is setup to get the best out of him. Our whole team was designed at a particular time for Drogba and Lampard to score, but when you have quality players around they would also chip in. Madrid and Porto's successes at the International Stage were in large part due to his lethal finishing and considering the quality Madrid lacks it's perfectly normal for them to build a team around getting Falcao the ball in the opposition box. It's like saying Barca is hampered by Messi's brilliance and having to setup their most of their team around him getting the ball. Falcao has a stellar record with 3 different teams, much better than any of our current strikers. Torres had a side build around him at Liverpool against opposition that rarely bunkered down with 9 players behind the ball - yet his record there is worse, his record at winning trophies is also worse, his record at scoring in big games is also worse. Liverpool are comparable to Atletico Madrid. The Torres we bought was not bought for his creative streak or his work rate, he was brought to score goals because Drogba was getting into his last years and we needed a striker familiar with the League who would affect our season straight away by scoring goals and helping us to win points. Torres has not been doing it at the required level the last 2 years and still missing sitters, since we aren't going to try alternatives within the squad such as Lukaku and Sturridge. It's obvious if management decides that they have need a striker - we will sign a big name striker and I cannot think of a better option than Falcao at the moment. Roman has always made it clear that if he wants a player he will sign him regardless of the price, so discussing the price and whether it's too high it's irrelevant.

Problem with Lampard is the position he is being played, but obviously with Oscar Mata and Hazard there is no way Lampard can start in his most effective position(even at this age he would still be a starting attacking midfielder in most clubs in the EPL); but after being moved in a more central position he is asked and expected to do a lot more covering and defensive work which he has never really excelled in. I still think he is on the needed level for this position when we have someone faster than Mikel next to him to do most of the running in the midfield when teams attack us on the break.