OneMoSalah

Ruben Dias some block on Rashford’s shot. Him and Stones look a very very good partnership, who’d have ever thought John Stones would of ended up playing this good consistently after the last 2/3 years 😂? He looked finished at City a while ago. Arguably their most important CB right now getting picked ahead of Laporte who is one of the best in Europe for me. Mental.

Yes but they also didnt play over 20 times in their first half a season and put in the sort of poor/beyond average performances where he has say lost the ball however many times in a game by needlessly dribbling into people or whatever. We all know he has talent but before he got COVID bar the hat trick, I still was struggling to see the qualities he had shown at a lesser team with inferior players. He has better teammates here. Yes tactically its not been amazing but still, same with Werner, good players are good players and he is one but hasnt done enough. And as I mentioned with Werner also, once you cost a few bob, some sort of expectation is there be it fairly or unfairly. Its at the point where now the run and assist for Callum, which was good yes but its as if thats meant to eradicate the poorer/average games he played beforehand... or meant to be worth the 70/80m we paid for him alone... or so you’d think reading the reactions.

Can the people who spent all of last season comparing Lampard and this side to Klopps Liverpool and Peps City now see how idiotic these comparisons were? Its embarrassing that even the Athletic keep seeming to drag that comparison in and mentioning time. They forgot that those sides had clearer identities and styles regardless of results and trophies. Its not as if Lampard has years of experience or achieved a tenth of what those guys had to even warrant those comparisons. Plus this squad has world cup winners, premier league winners, domestic cup winners, champions league winners etc. This project talk after spending 200m on genuine top players/top talents is infuriating. And for a club as successful as we’ve been since the 2000s, its frankly embarrassing at times. I wonder if those who went for AVB after those 7 or 8 months can see the stark similarities in Frank being so out of his depth... Was his achievements last season really remarkable? We were pretty much dead set for top 4 before December with like a 12 point then collapsed and limped to 4th place. Hardly remarkable. If this is remarkable then the standards have dropped hugely. I get there was a transfer ban but its still hardly remarkable. Man United leap frogged us. We finished third the season beforehand. I think the collection of us who were severely unimpressed last season have every right to say nothing Lampard has done in terms of achievement here has been remarkable. Finishing 4th with that squad after being what 12 points ahead before 2020, limping there sealing it on the last day, where has the standards gone here?

One run. Simple but effective but again you’d expect more of a potential 80m player who seems to lose the ball about 15-20 times a match and has what 4 goals and 4 assists in over 20 games... suppose will give folk something to cling onto. Needs to do much more first season or not. Other issues obviously but tactical stuff and him having covid but hasn’t impressed me bar that hattrick against some lower league team. Which again was against lower league.

Its tough but right now dropping points cannot be an option. Even if it means not changing manager. Or even if a change happens. Everything’s quite tight just now with 5/6 teams all within touching distance but that wont continue for the full duration of the second half of the season. Teams tend to put runs together during the second half of the season because thats when results and positions become much much more meaningful than they are in the first half because its the business end of things.

Both are young players, you dont rotate in defense that often unless you have to so Lamptey even if 2nd choices would hardly play seeing as Reece is the obvious first choice RB based on monutes this season. Thats why its better having a more experienced back up. Someone who’s proven and reliable to a degree. Azpi has only made 6 PL starts this season. In 17 games. He did the right thing leaving and the club also did the right thing letting him go in some capacity as he has to play regularly to further his career. Azpi’s time as a starter is up but as a back up for cup games or lesser teams, he will be more than adequate. Is James really that injury prone? Or slow? Would have to disagree.

Usain Bolt was fastest man alive but still a shite footballer for the 2 games he played or whatever. While I think Lamptey has gone on and done pretty decently with Brighton, some of James’ earlier performances in the season were much better and with more consistency, he will defos be the clubs starting RB for 10 years plus. And he can easily play as a RWB and probably RCB if necessary think he did in u23s (as can Azpi), so whats your point? He also played CM for Wigan and Frank said he could handle it later in his career. So Lamptey can maybe play right winger? Although he plays right back/wingback for Brighton? Thats like saying a horse could maybe be a unicorn? Until it happens, it isnt.

I agree he has to play as a CF not out left but look at the way we play, until thats adapted or changed why would you play him as a CF? If its adapted even. We very rarely have space to play in behind teams which would suit Timo a lot more but instead we cross like mad from the wings, mainly the fullbacks. He’s not scoring headers above 6 ft plus CBs. Its not as if Chilwell is putting lower crosses in the same way Alonso did under Sarri for some of the goals Pedro scored in that season. Or the same from the right side. If we are going to play higher crosses, at the regularity and as our main means of chance creation then surely, Giroud has to be the man to get onto them or even Tammy?

And I suppose that will be the end of the world, like how we just ceased to exist and everything went tits up when Lamptey left??! Behave. Hes done well but he’s hardly been Dani Alves or Cafu with his 1 G 1 A in 11 games and a handful of good performances. Livramento is a good prospect but again there is clearly a pecking order and James and Azpi undoubtedly are better and ahead of him. A loan would suit him more than anything. As it would of for Lamptey but fair play to the guy going and playing somewhere else regularly but again is he a huge miss?

Said when he was at Spurs the summer he wanted to leave we should of registered an interest. Don't think we will go for Eriksen now plus its not exactly happened for him at Inter after a poor 6 months at Spurs before they sold him. PSG would be interesting but do they really need him?

Probably be 2022 by the time this happens again though. It’s embarrassing nobody in government has a clue or can stick with a plan. We will be out again whenever and then back in at least once more before the years out 100%.

Who the fuck is Alison Bender? was gonna say thought he was the Liverpool GK but turns out she is a lass and the Liverpool’s GKs surname is Becker.... still.

Frank is too naive and too nice. As all younger modern ex player British coaches are because these sort of things are frowned upon and it is believed that all these things stemmed from “foreign coaches and players bringing into into the league”. Remember the spy gate thing? Unbelievable. Criticism Bielsa got for an approach which he’s been using throughout his career in which he also done the presser thing where journalists were blown away with his meticulous nature and approach. An approach Villas-Boas said Mourinho also adopted while here... yet British manager saying its wrong and British football being “the best and biggest”, its hugely frowned upon. Naivety. Guardiola is an absolutely revolutionary manager and has been since 2008 but his teams have been doing tactical fouls and getting calls by players over exaggerating fouls for seasons upon seasons. Mourinho also. No surprise either, these are two of the most successful and most revolutionary managers of the last 20 years. Yet British managers, we will do it our way we are British and we never dive or never played dirty or never used unfair advantages bla bla bla. Thats why bar Fergie and Brian Clough, there haven’t been very many successful ones in recent time. And at this rate foreign coaches will continue to be trend setters and win the big prizes. Football is ultimately about winning. And these guys will literally do anything to he successful.

Rice-Kante double pivot please god no. Be back to the Mikel-David Luiz days. Also your talking about balance but yet mention Barkley and Gallagher who are more offensively minded players? Ok Gallagher maybe bit more rounded actually but still.. balance... Barkley? He looked good when he came on did Billy but the game was gone, City didnt have any real interest in getting out of third gear. Id like to see him play a bit more frequently though. Not instead of Mount but instead of Kovacic who still lets games pass him by far too easily. Hes really undoing the good work and performances he put in last season.

Thats the basics and lack of effort we were on about in another thread. Same with Ziyech for the 3rd goal. Not first time this season he’s been in a position where thats happened and also last. Performance wise I think hes been okay over the course of the season, he had a good patch then fizzled out but again against City, although he wasn’t particularly good he was ok.

It does and it doesnt. It looks good in terms of a few results will change the table for us but it doesn’t look good because a manager with a lesser group of players got his team 6th, 3 places above us. Again Villa, Everton and Leicester same idea, all above us also. West Ham same points as us. Arsenal 3 off....

Re City. Who knows. Wages. Whatever. Them being linked doesn’t mean anything unless Pep actually has said it so many teams are linked with players. We also all know finances kept Liverpool from trying to buy him. He is reportedly on £270k a week here as was reported by several sources. Yes hes not a winger, its clear to see that because he doesn’t really take people on in 1 v 1s or particularly excel at crossing the ball or cresting chances. He needs to be more central I agree but if hes out there on the left, he has to do the job and has to try do more. £52m player who can only play one way isn’t exactly promising. Why don’t we just appoint Nagglesmann and sign every Leipzig player and recreate their whole team if he cannot adapt and do more? The Sarri comparison re Kante isnt exactly relevant because after a while Kante actually adapted and played some good stuff. Where as Werner is struggling in that left hand side role. The effort thing is relevant to a lot of players, it is, but I just get the impression hes more frustrated when he plays as opposed to trying to rectify the fact hes struggling. Maybe he is burnt out, maybe not, we haven’t rotated players as often and that could affect many of them. Still think for a £52m player who has played left wing for a large period of his career at Stuttgart and Leipzig albeit slightly differently perhaps, he can be better there for us. Its not as if we have taken a centre back and put him there. Completely agree that others have struggled. No doubt one bit about that. Unfortunately when you cost a bit of money like Kai and Timo that will weight on people when they make their judgement. Sky pundits panned every attacking players of ours at half time because they were anonymous (harsh on Pulisic I felt he at least tried). Second half they were anonymous again bar Pulisic. When Pulisic wasn't in the starting 11 last season he got the same skepticism and people questioned whether he was good enough or not so why is it as if its anything new or not to be expected for these guys? It should be expected by now that any player coming into any PL team for large money, if they take a bit of time or struggle there will be a group who will ask the question if their good enough or call them flops or whatever. Its nothing new. You can go through the midfield and attack and point the finger at most of them here yes. But the new guys who were meant to elevate the team or add new strengths will always be the first to get criticism from outside/other fans/fans because price tags comes with expectations. Jason cmon theres no doubt Tammy and Giroud right now offer more to this team. I can see your a fan of Werner, as many of us are and were initially excited of his arrival but he has been doing nothing in the last 6 or 7 games. Tammy may be a mixed bag but shown times this season and last he can bring something to this team. Giroud also and he may be slow or immobile at times but his link up and hold up play suits some of these players. Plus in the air both are taller and better so when we cross the ball more than Burnley by the looks of it due to the managers one dimensional approach, it makes me wonder why would you want a 5 ft 9 striker in there? Your saying its avoiding the problem or dancing around it or whatever you put it as but playing a 5 ft 9 striker over one of two 6 ft plus strikers when your game plan is heavily reliant on crossing is that not more of a problem? Lampards approach is a problem but until he leaves/is sacked/whatever, hes clearly not going to change. So doesnt that mean Timo offering nothing is more of a problem?

Sack someone after winning a title? Fucking hell this is a bit daft. I hope its sarcasm because no way a top coach is coming here on peanuts where that would he financially possible also. Or are you on FIFA/PES/pc game mode? If he can win a title being 7 points off top up against Klopp, Jose, Pep and whoever else why would you sack him 🤣? Jesus christ. Would that not just be an ever bigger indication of his capabilities and his ability to get his approach over to the team pretty effectively? l dont get what you mean by unconvincing football either, he won Serie A with Milan and they played some decent stuff. Juventus played some decent stuff (and many said Allegri improved Juventus after Conte after Conte famously made the quote regarding transfers before leaving while instantly improving upon his European record also...) while playing various different formations and making changes in the spine of their team. People seem to have this perception hes Sam Allardyce or Tony Pulis is in an Armani suit by the looks of this forum. Hes not. Anything with this impression of him is, to put it bluntly, clueless. He didnt get Juventus to a CL final playing unconvincing football. He didn’t win however many Serie As throughout his career playing unconvincing football/tactics. I think the fact hes been out of the game for a year and a half has given people this impression he will only be successful in Italy or his style is only useful in Serie A or whatever... which I am sure people probably thought about Conte before he came here, won the PL in a season where his approach basically reintroduced English football to playing with back 3s to the point now so many teams still use this systems more than they had in the last 10 years. Yet bet when he immediately left Juventus you’d have taken him in a heartbeat prior to Franks appointment?

Hassenhuttl is known for his combination football though. With better quality at his disposal he'd ofcourse play much more attractive football. Is he? From what I remember of Leipzig with him they were basically the same as Southampton bar a wee bit more quality with Werner and Forsberg. Still hit the channels, still looked over the top and played on transitions. Not saying it wouldn’t work but when youve got talented players like Pulisic, Havertz (ok hes been pisspoor for a whole), Ziyech among others, then look at Southampton trying to break teams down when they go up against teams that defend... it isn’t exactly that good. Yes the quality of players maybe doesn’t help but again there isn’t much invention in the same way you see in other teams in the PL: Leeds are actually an excellent example of this. Thats why we need to find a coach who can get these boys into positions where they can break down teams using their qualities and not relying purely on the opposition leaving huge spaces for counters or due to losing it due to being pressed/sloppy on the ball. Might work for Southampton and has them flying but City, Liverpool, even United and Spurs at times have more to their make ups than that and ultimately we want to be competing with them/better than them.

It would be interesting but still think he would be lower down the list. Or if he was our first choice I would be a bit concerned because I think Allegri, Tuchel, among other names should be the sort of level we go for first. He is a 442 man as he is at Southampton and at Leipzig. Its clearly his preferred system and has clearly helped him turn it around with Southampton. They have a lot of balls, the way Southampton play hunting the ball down and with a high line is admirable but you look at the midfielders and we have and the attackers we have, guys like Havertz, Ziyech, Pulisic. These guys don’t want to be chasing balls over the top and in the channels. They want to come inside play one and two touch combinations with each other, moving off the ball into spaces in and around the box. Southamptons actual play in the middle of the pitch isn’t that impressive. They are good for recovering second balls and getting stuck in but offensively they are heavily reliant on the balls in the channels and over the top. They are a good side for set pieces mind you and while thats something we have tightened up and improved upon ourselves, they have some good worked routines. The work rate would be night and day though but again I dont know how he would cope taking that style to Chelsea, bigger names, more demands, more pressure to win, I know Southampton are higher than us at present but theres not the same expectation.

Southampton doing well this season but wouldn’t like to see us go for Hassenhuttl. Not as a first or second choice anyway. I will be honest the high energy pressing style is admirable but the insistence on hitting the channels/balls over the top every chance they get is a bit predictable and here its not already as if teams don’t sit off us and play deep so it’s not going to work as easy as it does for a Southampton. We have guys like Ziyech, Pulisic, Havertz who you would like to see playing one and two touch combinations with each other moving into spaces as opposed to chasing balls over the top/in the channels. Plus he has played 442 at Leipzig and now Southampton, its undoubtedly his system and it doesnt particularly suit our squad either. Plus the players he moved on from Southampton because they didnt fit his style. Which isn’t mentioned. Would he do the same here? Hope they keep this result up though. He strikes me as a manager who's doing well there, not as good as Pochettino but more like Koeman when he replaced Poch.

Everyones talking playing styles as if thats the most important. Someone who’s well respected as a coach who will improve and set high standards that the player will have to meet every week is a priority. Can keep the more progressive football if its going to be good one week, then 3/4 weeks where we don’t show up. We seen from Sarri and now Lampard where thats taken us. Maybe Tuchel would be different maybe not but there needs to be something because this is a young group and they need something/someone to put them en route to being a proper team. Not just a team that plays good football like Arsenal under Wenger after 2008 or whatever but were never truly competitive and struggled when games got shitty/tough.

True it was release clause but wages also undoubtedly which is why I mentioned agents. I personally still don’t see why City would of wanted him considering what they have in wide areas as he wouldnt he starting ahead of Aguero although he is missing due to injuries but still, Liverpool not getting him looked more of a mistake than say City not going for him until they signed Jota. Yes the positions different but the guy has to adapt and ultimately I expected more from him, considering he has played left wing for Germany numerous times. I mean obviously works both ways but again, if the balls not in and around the box or put in behind for him what does he do? Does he take the ball and drive at players like Pulisic does if he’s out wide? Does he try hold the ball or link the play like Giroud when hes uptop? He doesn't as those aren’t his strengths obviously but you’ve got to adapt still and he can do more. I do feel a bit sorry for him being played out left as its not his role but I am very surprised at what he’s putting in out there in terms of one quality and two effort. The whole team you could argue is set up to fail with Lampard tactics but also, not that its a saving grace for Frank but individual performances can be much much better. Its not as black as white as the tactics are shite so 11 players playing poorly week in week out is only down to him. He wanted them and has to find a solution to get them in and playing well with the rest of the team but they’ve also got to be up for it and impose themselves in games and put effort in at times. Not seen anything from Havertz since that hattrick against whoever we played in the FA cup if I am honest and that was about 4 months ago. 21 games and 4 goals for £80m. Also re Timo, him missing those sitters/clear chances isn't done to Lampard’s tactics is it? Some of its lucks some of its been poor finishing. The problem Lampard has regardless of if its Timo, Kai, whoever is that too many players are struggling which indicates a wider issue and why I think we need a change (and going by forum a lot of others think he needs to go too). But this is by no means me making any excuses for these players who have really dropped off and struggled either way. They need to take some responsibility for their individual form at times, Kai and Timo may be new may not have had pre seasons bla bla bla but for two players who cost nearly £130m you expect much much more in terms of quality. Regardless of it was Frank Lampard, Sean Dyche, Jose Mourinho’s or Tony Pulis in charge. Even if Frank went out the door and was replaced, as we seen with Guus Hiddink that season he replaced Jose after we won the league in 2014/15, its not always an instant fix. So its interesting. I dont know who will come in but I think someone who demands respect as a manager is needed ie an Allegri. I also think someone whos a bit more discipline driven would boot a rocket up these players arses because Frank isnt doing it or if he is, they dont seem to be getting the message. Your right re Timos rutt but I would rather Giroud or Abraham who have been in amongst the goals in comparison to Timo in the last 12 matches, at least until we get results. Even more so because they offer more to the team as players right now. I am struggling to see why Timo should be included. If he was scoring goals it would be fine you could justify his inclusion for that but he’s not. I was glad to see he was in as CF today as I thought the players would be able to get him chances but they didnt and he didnt offer anything. The playing style is an issue yes but it’s obviously what FL is gonna keep persisting with so Giroud/Abraham more likely to score from crosses than Timo. Hopefully if there is a change everyone will get a boost and we will see better from these players but these dreamers thinking we are gonna get Nagelsmann or someone like that, need to wake up. Standards have only gotten lower since somehow getting Conte to come in and take over a team who had spent most of the season floating about 10th or 11th in 2015/16. Allegri would be a real shrewd move, safe hands, plenty experience but will he want to come here? Questionable.

Can we make 11 changes?

Results are ultimately more important than recruitment. You can recruit well but if you don’t get results it ultimately won’t matter. If he was sacked tomorrow and this group went on to be successful in a year or a few years down the line, nobody will remember Lampard’s spell in a better light after spending 200m or whatever and having us sitting 8/9th. Behind Everton. Aston Villa. Leicester. Tottenham. Teams we all finished above last season without 200m of players like Timo Werner, Hakim Ziyech, Ben Chilwell, Thiago Silva, Kai Havertz who are all improvements on what we had last season. The last 18 months of his time here there is no clear style, no identity and ultimately no real progress. Only positives results wise was the 2 purple streaks spanning the 20 games in 2 seasons.