OneMoSalah

Meant show me stats of number 10s who have played in the PL at aged 22 or under that are so much better... Dele Alli maybe only one I could think of in recent times. I mean comparing anyone to Bruno Fernandes and KDB is unfair. Never mind a 22 year old who’s in his 4th season as a professional footballer at first team level. And again for all the talk of Maddison, whilst he is currently a better player than Mason at present, he has only got 2 more PL goals and 2 more assists than Mason this season. In the 91 PL games Maddison has played he has 21 goals and 15 assists. Mason in the 66 he has played, 13 goals and 8 assists. So lets not pretend that Maddison is exactly putting up world class statistics and that he should he used to beat Mason’s quality or potential down with. Or the fact Maddison’s been a professional for 3 seasons longer and has more experience/further on in his development. Who was the finished article age 22? Or even aged 24 for Maddison’s sake as well? You’d expect someone aged 24 with Maddison’s talent to be further on than Mason is probably due to the fact he’s been playing as a first team player more often, as well as having played in a smaller team where there isn’t the same demand or pressure where you have to win every game. That is no disrespect to Coventry, Norwich, Aberdeen or Leicester but coming through and playing at any of those is much easier than it is here for instance after being at Vitesse and Derby. The gap is bigger. Where as Maddison also played at a team that have strolled the championship countless times and joined a mid table/bottom half PL team. So he didn’t go from a 6th place championship side to playing every week at a top 4 club a season later.

Those games were good yes but the game v Liverpool was probably just as good as those performances and he was one of the best players on the pitch? Also the first leg v Atletico, again Mason played very well. Maybe we created more chances v Atletico 2nd leg and Everton but again, I still think we play much better with him. He takes the ball on the half turn and drives the team forward. He also gives the team a lot of energy and does the counter pressing side of things TT is big on very well. Obviously goal and assists etc can be better but will definitely come with time. As mentioned above Liverpool and Atletico first leg were also good performances. For me Liverpool was equally as good as anything we’ve played this season I think it was very complete. As I said hes 22, he can improve on scoring goals, or assisting or key passes etc but he’s a hugely vital player here and also was under Frank. Originally I felt Frank should have taken him out at the time he struggled last season but I dont think Frank played him undeservedly. Anyone living with this presumption still for me, to put it bluntly, is being ridiculous. I mean we spent 250m on players, a huge amount of that which went on on more offensive players..... yet Masons still one of our most frequently played players and was at the beginning of the season. Is it undeserved or is it just a stupid assumption made by people because they didnt have anything else to say? Maybe FL should have rested him as he accumulated a lot of minutes last season when he was having a bad run but this image he was given preferential treatment is a myth and Gareth Southgate basically called some Chelsea and other teams fans out basically saying Mount was always playing well and talented, and it shouldn’t have taken TT to come in and play him for people to see that. I think people are harsh on him because of his stats. Its not a given your always a good player if you have good stats or a bad player if you dont. Even then at 22 or under, show me number 10s recently with good stats in the PL?

Tbf, both of them have a lot to do. Kai has to find an actual position as opposed to being thrown in as a 8, 10 and a false 9 and flattering to convince in either of the three positions. Hes got huge talent but its failing to show at times. Bar the Liverpool, Newcastle and Atletico games, hes been pretty much a hinderance to this team because hes missed some big chances or hes been like an invisible player. You talk about the flashes for other players but whats to say that you cannot use that as the exact same excuse for Werner? I am inclined to start thinking he is going to go the way of Morata and Torres. Flashes v Newcastle, Liverpool, Atletico then nothing for weeks on end. I cant shake the feeling as well once that sort of thing happens, particularly here for an attacker, they struggle to shake it and it defines them. Wont disagree regarding Pulisic with Frank, absolutely he wasnt in great shape and had injuries but you cannot say for instance the likes of Werner or Havertz have been in form recently or that other players couldnt have a more positive effect in this team. Pulisic and Hudson-Odoi for instance totally different profiles and offer something different and a team that struggles to create chances, maybe we need someone or players who can drop the shoulder and take a few opposition players out of the game. Werner has been given a huge show of faith from Frank and TT but hasnt done much to justify this show of faith. As you’ve said contributions of 4 goal involvements in 11 starts.... give Christian or Callum or Ziyech or Tammy or Giroud 11 starts and lets see what they do in those. I think more than 4 goal involvements wouldn’t exactly be asking much. Its hard to say more about flashes not just being flashes when some players are featuring more often than others. With regards to dropping him, I dont know, his style you would think suits the City game but if he isnt going to affect the game or even do the basics like cannot dribble the ball without tripping over it like he did again tonight is there any point? His skillset might suit something but if hes not feeling it mentally then hes not likely going to score. And no its not all Werner’s fault that we struggle to score goals as a team. There are other reasons but dont tell me hes making great runs or even taking a lot of shots when he gets the chance.

One scary moment from a corner but looked comfortable. Few good saves.

Didn’t exactly play fantastically, nobody did but in a moment where we were second best he popped up with a bit of magic to give us a bit of breathing space. How anyone cannot see or choses not to see how key Mount is to this team is beyond me.

Well I suppose it depends on his injuries. But I wouldn’t be so sure to say that we should be concerned yet. Obviously concerned enough hes not always available as I think hes still our best attacking player probably if last season was anything to go on but I mean more with regards to offloading him. I dont know, for me, when Mount plays we look a lot better. He can score or assist or create more chances and it will come but for me he is a key player here whether people like it or not. When he hits 10+ goal and 10+ assists in a season for the club maybe people will change their minds but if people cannot see or choose not to see the difference in the team with and without him then I can’t do anything about that. I don’t see how anyone could not see Mount’s value even more so after tonight. He didnt have a great game but he made the difference when it mattered, when Porto were all over us. Set another chance up for Timo also for the header in the second half with an inch perfect cross. The majority of our good actions tend to involve him. Thats not to say as a 22 year old playing in the PL for his second season running he cannot have inconsistencies. He had only ever played for Vitesse and Derby beforehand.

That is also true, he started better with TT in Feb (was beginning of Feb he came in right?) but he is more a hinderance than a help just now and has been for a good while. Look at the minute before that Havertz miss he couldn’t even dribble the ball and nearly tripped over it. Which is becoming a regular thing. Its at the point where you’d think anyone would be better now would you not agree? We’ve seen coaches play Torres and Morata when they were doing nothing week in and week out, on some premise that they believe they will score or that they can coach them through it etc instead of ignoring the blatantly obvious, the guys in a huge rut maybe wait to a game where your scoring 3,4 or 5 goals and stick him in then (although 3,4 or 5 goals for us this season in one game would be near unheard of). Yes the options weren’t fantastic but either way it didn’t pay off with those guys so what makes people think it will with them? Its virtually the same thing. I mean Its literally deja vu. Surely a smart man like TT can figure that one out? If we were on a piss poor run of form and his job was in danger, relying on someone who’s in a rut like Timo to score you goals, it would be career damaging. I mean for me, look at Pulisic tonight, in the 25 minutes he’s come on and had a chance where he has hit the bar/unlucky it hasn't gone in and won a few fouls to relive the pressure on the boys. Can’t remember if hes done an amazing great deal else but in terms of making an impact, he was an inch away from scoring. If he’s having much more of an impact in and around the goal than Werner is or if any player is in limited minutes in comparison, then I am all for seeing them in the team because we need to score goals. Werner had the header chance which to be fair to him its a good position but heading is not his strength. I hope if TT is to be hopeful of being here in the long run he can find a way to incorporate Pulisic into team. Even more so on the left side of that front 3/attacking trio because surely I cannot be the only one who is sitting baffled at what Werner does over the course of a game or what hes done over the course of the last 2 months nearly?

Pulisic for Sancho? Hmm maybe I would take it but again, I still think Pulisic’s ceiling as a player is incredibly high. Obviously Sancho’s is as well and hes home grown so always an extra point but I think getting him will be even more costy than Pulisic. Who’s to even say Dortmund would take Pulisic back? They didnt play him on loan very often once we signed him. Mount maybe hasn’t ironed our his final ball as we keep mentioning when he’s brought up but for a young player, the effect he’s had on games this season has been huge and probably been better than anyone else has for us. Theres no doubt we look worse without Mount, we lack a link between MF and attack when he doesn’t play and he’s scored two big goals for us this season in games of great significance. Obviously 2 doesn’t sound that impressive. Yes he can score more and assist more but hes 22, in a Chelsea team where he still stands out and makes more experienced and players who are further on in their developments contribution look minimal. The Ziyech-Promes relationship was the one I was precisely meaning. I think Tuchel is maybe better equipped to try get that from the players than Frank ever was, maybe it will work maybe not, seen enough of Pulisic last season coming into the box from wide areas though to know that he can contribute goals from those sort of areas. Or even being in the penalty box as you see/have seen with wingers from the Bundesliga a lot.

This is true. But as we have discussed and will probably further discuss once I reply to the post from the Werner thread the other day, it is not exactly a new thing. As I said after WBA its an accumulation for Werner every games tallying up and for me except one moment tonight I am finding it beyond belief he is in this team from the start most weeks.

True with Giroud his lack of mobility doesn’t help but Abraham strikes me as someone who would suit Tuchel’s philosophy. Obviously he is far from a fantastic player but he showed some big improvement at the beginning of the season, particularly linking the play etc also. Plus every player has shown an improvement under Tuchel of sorts. Jesus if Chilwell can do what he did tonight in front of goal every week I’d happily see him upfront than either Timo or Kai for a period. Basically played with 9 men for the bulk of the time they were on.

Wow easy there. It just takes them to get off to a fast start in the next leg to completely turn this tie on its head. They’ve probably been the better side over the course of the game if I am honest, in terms of their intensity, how they’ve recovered the ball, how they got it forward, how theyve threatened at set plays etc. One moment of brilliance and a mistake doesn’t change that. In fact their fullback for the first goal doesnt dive in the likelihood its not a goal either.

Fuck me this has been an absolute smash and grab. 2-0 😂

Why else would he persistently ignore Giroud or Abraham though? They arent amazing players but you cannot tell me they wouldn’t offer more than Havertz or Werner have of late? Its clearly sending a message of some sort whether its to the actual players or the club, I don’t know. But it feels like one to the club for me.

I get the feeling now Tuchel is maybe persisting with Werner and Havertz as a false 9 over Giroud or Tammy to prove a point or show to the club that we need a top CF. Regardless. Even with the obvious fact we need a top CF, I am still baffled why Werner starts every week. It is hurting my mind every time I see the team sheet and he's on it, there are butter knives that are sharper at present.

What a fucking let of. Kepa impression there from Mendy. Then they are close again. Make some changes please TT. Definitely two German players on there who are doing nothing, who probably shouldn’t have seen after the HT break..

Tbf the midfielders aren’t making options when we are deeper trying to build because Porto have been pressing us, winning it back a few times and then the outball is coming back to us because attackers have been pretty much standing still or Porto are winning those aerials because Mount, Werner and Havertz aren’t exactly going to beat Pepe or Mbemba in the air as well as every second ball seems to be recovered by a Porto player. Porto’s intensity has also been very impressive I must admit. Has stopped us playing out. As has people being reluctant to take the ball under pressure because we have been under a bit of pressure, which isn’t good when you want to be a team who plays out like we do. No changes at HT by looks of it. Good ball and unlucky from Werner. Heading not his strength but gets up well and the ball is good.

Surely he has to put one of them off for Giroud? Or even change the both of them and get another attacking player on. Another game in which I am not surprised where you know who, has offered nothing. I mean how many times has he actually touched the ball? Yes Mount hasn’t done too much and the midfield are findinf it tough but they showed they can make the difference with Mason’s goal and Mount’s general application and approach, he has made a few recoveries etc. Is always useful. Porto are getting a lot of joy at set plays and I think Havertz height might be more useful defending them but I wouldnt be surprised if Tuchel changes Werner and Havertz. Might get a reaction out the team.

Fantastic turn. Get in. Big goal. Hopefully leads to a big change in how we get at this mob though. They are a good team but we have been awful.

We might as well be playing with 8 men, which doesn’t help. The trio of Havertz, Werner and Mount have been virtually anonymous. Midfield isnt doing great either. Werner run there first thing I have seen him do in the opposition half. This repeatedly going long to get out doesn’t work either unless Giroud plays.

Not having one of Ziyech, Pulisic or Hudson-Odoi in the starting 11 is a big mistake. Not going to break these lot down with what we have out there. Everything is to feet and nobody out there is going to beat men in 1 v 1s to create space or draw people out of positions.

Theyre going to score first at this rate. Their approach seems to be a lot less fucking about in the final third, once they get there they want to make an impact.

Yet there are people who have constantly bitched and moaned, basically accusing her of making managers play Kepa and picking transfer targets over the years etc....

Yet there are people who have constantly bitched and moaned, basically accusing her of making managers play Kepa and picking transfer targets over the years etc....

Hope Havertz is the false 9 and not one od the more supporting roles because if its Pepe and the other CB up against Werner it will be a disaster.

True but surely if he’s desperate for a goal, when your 4-1 down, you just shoot? Right? Strikers are greedy, or they are meant to be. If it was 3-2 I could see why hes shat it a bit and squared it but at 4-1, not sure