Tomo

He puts effort in spades but far too often he is lazy and just prances about, i keep a close eye on him when i go to SB and quite frankly it's cringeworthy, if he doesn't get a pass or embarrasses himself, his head drops and he disappears. Yes he played his part in winning the Europa but other's did too, it doesn't make up for the shit he's produced in the 2 and a half years, and just because he didn't take us to court doesn't mean he hasn't done stupid things. To be honest he didn't get the stick he deserved for the "he didn't care" comment, could you imagine if Sturridge said that? or Kalou? or even Drogba in his first couple of years. As for the £50m, that "he didn't ask" excuse quite honestly doesn't wash with me, he knew that if he ever left Liverpool in his 20's he would command a massive (potentially record breaking) fee and with it would come huge pressure. The whole package was 100m pounds so in Euro's that will probably be roughly 115 euro's, 14 months after he arrived he was costing us £20m a goal. It's not really his performances that grate me about Torres (i loved Sheva despite him being shite) it's the fact that instead of getting his head down and trying to prove people wrong he whined about not playing the Champions League final (i mean Nando, did you seriously expect us to pick you over one of the best big game players off all time? really?) and then after that Robbie had to convince him on the plane home to stay (when he should have been celebrating being a European cup winning manager), after the season and a half he had with us he should have been on his knees to Robbie and Roman begging not to have joined Malouda in the reserves. Then there was that tunnel stop at Loftus Road and the straw that broke the camels back for me was the he didn't care comments. I can take crap players but if those crap players are making playing demands than that will never go down well with me. It's hard enough to take a great player with an ego let alone an awful one.

There is, Torres should not be playing under any circumstances, i would happily see him frozen out until he goes, ive had enough of him.

Subotic, but Luiz won't leave.

With West Ham it wouldn't be a surprise, Allardyce's forte is taking unfancied clubs and overachieving with them, i reckon the surprise package this season could be Stoke, people look to harshly on Hughes at his time at QPR, Redknapp (who many wanted here instead of Rafa) didn't do much better and Sparky before QPR had a fantastic track record in the PL, similar to Big Sam's.

Just thought, if he signs for us and win's the treble, he has won the "grand slam" treble, he will be the first ever to do that.

Who better will we be able to get for less money than we sell Luiz for? also bare in mind the fact teams will milk us for the money because they know we will be desperate for a new centre back.

I can't see it happening this summer, if anything things will hot up next summer, but i think he will remain with us for this season atleast.

Even the QPR side of last season was a class above this Hull team, that's how bad they are, Steve Bruce worked miracles to get them up but not even he can stop them nosediving this time. I do agree however that the attitude has to be right however, the tough(est) part will be breaking down their jumbo jet.

Im not saying that but in the end of the day we in a way represent the rest of our fans. If a Liverpool supporter tells you to stop living in the past, even if they are one of the one's that don't use history against every other club, the reply would almost certainly be that's rich coming from a Liverpool fan. If a Chelsea fan comdemed Suarez to a Liverpool fan for the racism saga, the reply would almost surely be John Terry, reagardless of what that fan in question thinks of that saga also. On the Moyes topic i think your over-reacting a bit, most people are (rightfully) questioning whether he can cope with the step up, there should be some member's here that can vouch for me on this one, i didn't want Moyes at Chelsea (when he was getting linked) for the same reason (Roy and Mark Hughes showed us that doing good work with limited funds doesn't mean your rule the world at a big job)

I recall a fair number of United fans doing the same to AVB when he got the Chelsea job. Pot and kettle comes to mind.

We could, but id prefer not too.

There are some idiot's that support United (like every team) but from my experience those fans are the one's that support Man.Utd because their called Man.Utd and don't actually know anything about football, the United fans that do know football in my experience are a lot better to talk football with than the other 3, especially a fair chunk of the Spurs lot who are hypocritical and borderline moronic.

It's all boils down to the wages really, as a player i would say why not, lets be honest Falcao and Cavani have gone, Rooney is 50/50 i would have him, he may be 32 but it doesn't mean he's crap. As for the wages like someone else said above give him a 2/3 year deal and split his yearly Anzhi wages in that with a little signing on fee (something that would be possible if we get him for free) then why not, no one will pay him as much as they do in Russia, so if he wants to leave, then he will have to accept that. Jose got him to accept playing second fiddle to Milito at Inter (in terms off playing at right mid to accomodate the Argentinian) so if we for some reason had a injury crisis in the 3 behind the forward he could cover there. He may not be the player he was at Barca, but the limited time i did watch him last term (mainly in the Europa League) he looked like he could still offer something and imo still has a couple of years in him yet.

Speaking of Rui i like the system where manager's have "their" staff and the clubs staff. It gives both parties a bit of continuity if they part company, like last time Jose left where Steve Clarke still stuck around.

If we get no other forward in Ba should be number 1 with Lukaku as competition. Even if Ba doesn't score he can hold up play and bring other's in to it, and his movement is pretty good too, defenders cannot just ignore him and focus on the amigo's like they do with Torres.

In the championship you need to work hard and score goals, blondie does neither.

FFS this again. No one hate's Torres, he just isn't good enough, what on earth do you expect us to do/say when we see someone we payed 100 fucking million pounds on (contract and transfer) put fuck all effort in and go on major goal droughts every season. How many chances does he need? two years ago it was give him a full pre season and full summer rest and take it from there, last summer it was give him a chance as #1 now he doesn't have Drogba's shadow to deal with and now it's see what he can do under Jose, the guy's had enough chances, what next summer? get Alonso in and see if he can do anything?. if we don't sign another forward i would rather we rotated between Ba and Lukaku than play Torres, watching him is so embarrassing, i don't watch Chelsea with opposition fans mates as much as i use too.

---------------------------Cech--------------------------- Ivanovic--------Luiz------------Terry--------Bertrand ------------------Ramires-------Lampard-------------- De Bruyne--------------Oscar-----------------Hazard ----------------------------Ba----------------------------- Subs: Schwarzer, Cahill, Cole, MVG/Mikel, Schurrle, Mata, Lukaku. Found it hard picking out of these, which suggest's already what a strong squad we have compared to last time. The reason for my Lampard selection is Hull are likely to park the jumbo jet infront of their goal, these are the type of games even now that Lampard's running into the box can come in handy. If we get in a comfortable lead take Luiz off for Villa and United, rest Cole for the same reason and if for whatever reason things are not going our way, Lukaku off the bench. Torres in the stands, and hopefully that's where he will remain for the season.

West Brom at home 2010 Usually i would agree with what you said, but this Hull side are absolutely awful, their goal difference in the championship was single figure's, i still don't know how they got up. These could (quite easily) be another Derby 2008.

We have been a work in progress since the double, any more and we will morph into Arsenal Dortmund may have not pulled up punches in the CL, but they were still winning the Bundesliga easily at that time, Mata, Hazard and Oscar have had a year together now and this are at a similar age to what Rooney and Ronaldo were in 2006, the trio was inconsistent in their first season together but when they clicked it clicked (Old Trafford FA Cup) and they will only have those type of games more often this time round. I think we can challenge for two reasons as we still have lots of experience and the young players we have are genuinely incredible, we have a perfect mix of both that will only get more if Rooney comes in (and hopefully proves me wrong). Real Madrid's team (managed by Jose) was at a similar stage in 10/11 and they got over 90 points in the league (only denied by the best team since the millennium being at the peak of their powers). The other reason is United have David Moyes, he did a good job at Everton, but because of his budget he will be a hero there unless he got relegated, this is a different job and i think he will really struggle with the step up and i don't think City are as good as people are making out, they are massively over-rated, the fact all through last season people were calling then the best team in the league despite United running away with it says it all. It won't be as easy as it was in 04/05 that's for sure, but we are certainly well equipped to challenge imho. I aint being biased i was saying all last summer that we wouldn't go from 6th to 1st, even when we won at WHL and went 4 clear i still stuck to it.

The difference between us and say Arsenal is we still have more than enough experience in the ranks. Dortmund got to the CL final with their pivot and other key players in their early 20's. United won it with Ronaldo and Rooney just out of their teens in 2007. The way to do it is have an experienced spine for most games, especially the top one's (Cech, JT/DL4, Ramires, Mata, Rooney maybe if he joins) and play the youngsters around them and i don't see why we can't atleast challenge.

I know it's early but so far Moyes is showing why i was kept saying we must not appoint him.

What worries me is when there comes a point (which there will) where Rooney can't hit a barn door and Lukaku's on the best form (dus far) of his career, how will Rooney react to getting rightfully dropped? If he won't accept 2nd fiddle to RVP, he won't accept the same to Lukaku if or when the time comes.

Im not too bothered about criticism off our own youth system as we haven't produced as many as we should have, what i really hate hearing is other clubs (namely Man.Utd) being used as an example of how it should be done. They way they casted aside Morrison because he had a little of bit of an attitude was borderline criminal.

For a start all the player's i highlighted had to prove themself's on PL loans before they got a shot at their respective clubs and secondly Hart, King and Walker aside, none of those players mentioned have been first Xl players at their clubs for an extended period of time (not at their parent clubs anyhow), so you say Bertrand's a bench warmer, well so are all of those players you have listed bar 3.