The Skipper

Myth. Luiz has shown character enough times on the field during his time here, but people will choose to forget that of course because he goofs around on twitter and instagram.

If we're signing a new CB then Kalas and Zouma are definitely being sent out on loan.

You're probably right in saying that RR has the edge in the air; he's definitely has won more than double but he has also lost more than double. If we take it on the average, which I think is a fairer reflection, they both win 55% of their aerial duels. RR is perhaps better in the air but my whole response was in regards to your original point i.e. thinking Shaw is a liability or weak in the air which he isn't as those stats reflect. Taking into account his physical build and height as well... Shaw isn't an Ivanovic (barely any fullbacks are) in the air but he is definitely solid enough. Solid enough to not call him "weak in the air" anyway. I also have no problem in you using WS as a reference to back up your points because if used correctly it definitely enhances an argument - just didn't agree with you on saying Shaw is weak in the air.

Why does that make you happy? Would rather give someone like Chalobah a chance ahead of signing Tiago. Even if on a free, it would be a pretty bad signing IMO.

I wouldn't say Shaw is "weak" aerially or that RR is superior in the air. Shaw is 6 ft 1 after all and is just a pure athlete... Shaw wins 55% of his aerial duels, so does RR, so I don't think you should be worried about that.

And we have more than enough in the coffers to afford that. Let's say we get Shaw for around £25m, we still have £15m~£25m left from Luiz's transfer alone. Add in the money we saved from January, plus wages saved from not renewing a few contracts, plus the impending sales from the likes of Ba, Mikel, Bertrand, Romeu etc; and not to forget the rest of our actual summer budget (minus the Costa transfer)... It's more than affordable.

£25m is a very decent price. I was very against Falcao, partly due to his supposed transfer fee (£50m+) but for £25m it wouldn't be a bad signing. Still risky though.

Doesn't really make sense to me either, especially if we sign a left back so Azpi can go back to his natural position. We have JT, Cahill, Ivanovic, Zouma, Kalas, Omeruo and Christensen. Signing a CB this season would make no sense whatsoever. Maybe after next season when JT finally leaves... That's the only way a CB signing would make sense. Right now in defence we have (if we sign a new LB): RB: Azpi, Ivan, Kalas, Omeruo LB: New LB, Azpi, Bertrand/PVA CB: JT, Cahill, Ivanovic, Zouma, Kalas, Omeruo & Christensen at a push. Signing a CB makes 0 sense.

Perfect as Matic's understudy.

Apparently out for just two weeks (15 days) so will still make the WC.

If we buy Shaw now he'll be considered as 'club trained' in three seasons.

Considering Man City won the double this year, a £5m difference is very negligible. If anything, the fact that our brand is only £5m off City despite winning no trophy this year is an achievement in itself.

WhoScored is pretty useful in certain instances but its ratings system vastly suit some players more than others. It's okay to use in an argument but I wouldn't swear religiously by it for example - it has Skrtel, Debuchy, Evra and Curtis Davies as the highest rated back four in the PL, which we all know is completely wrong.

https://twitter.com/Mourinhoesque/status/470811452639809536

Don't forget Ivanovic and Kalas can play as a CB so there would be no point in signing a CB, especially if we get in a good left back - which means Azpi will play in his natural position more often. For fullbacks: Azpi, New LB, Ivanovic, Kalas For CBs: Terry, Cahill, Ivanovic, Zouma, Kalas. Signing a new CB would be unnecessary.

RR it is then. The price is too good.

If we're bringing Courtois back and keeping Cech then Courtois - Cech - Blackman, If not then Cech - Schwarzer - Blackman will suffice as well.

It's always been 3 pal, just United fans making stuff up again on Twitter.

Not that I agree with him but if you're looking for a "reliable" defender then Vertonghen is a very bad example because he is practically the same type of defender Luiz is.

Which is fair enough - I'm not disagreeing with you on Luiz's inconsistency levels. Far from it. I wholeheartedly agree with you that he has been inconsistent and that has been his main downfall. The whole premise of my argument was to counter the opinion that he's not suited to the PL and that it's more to do with the system - as with any other player; it honestly is just a basic belief I hold. My whole initial point had to do with Luiz finally putting that inconsistency behind him this year which he obviously didn't - in fact he regressed even; and I tried to point out reasons why he didn't - i.e. having no real summer break, no pre season, coming back injured, lacking match sharpness and JT + Cahill both just picking up form greatly and staying fit for the majority of it... Again, it's hard to say whether or not he'd win a lot at City, Arsenal or Pool - that seriously isn't quantifiable just by how he would performed in those teams to begin with... There are obviously a lot of other factors that affect that and it's pretty far away from the main discussion here.Arsenal and Pool as we both know have very naive managers so City would actually be a great example - they are attack first but are still quite responsible at the back as their manager isn't as naive as the other two mentioned - he can slightly switch it up and shut it down if they need to. They implement an attacking system in the right way unlike Arsenal or Liverpool so City's system for example would've been great for Luiz. Luiz - Kompany would be a very impressive partnership if both are fully fit and on form (with form comes confidence and consistency). The discussion isn't about whether Luiz can be part of a team that can attain domestic success in England, we can't really discuss that as there are a whole lot of other variables that affect that. You think Luiz can't be a reliable defender and have brought valid points to back that up but at the same time I think he can be in the right system where he's given a consistent run in - regardless of what country he's playing in. Luiz nor myself probably won't change your mind on that because the conditions to see who's right or wrong doesn't even exist and most likely never will (considering he's now in France) so it's probably best we agree to disagree mate .

Agreed. I was saying the exact same thing - he saves that easily if he moved his feet. It's an easy save that way and he still gives Atletico some sort of hope for the rest of extra time.

Modric, Di Maria and Ramos (especially Sergio) we're exceptional. Never seen Ramos play this well, he was vital to almost everything they did and won so many balls back for Madrid and he was the key reason they kept on the pressure. World class performance from Sergio. Congrats Madrid.

Ramos has been unreal.

I agree with her and I'm not Brazilian. 3-4 mental lapses a game is just completely overstating it, you're pretending that's the case. Brazil have the best back four in the world. T. Silva and Luiz are outstanding together so it isn't really an outrageous thing to say.