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the wes

Aleksandr Golovin

Started by the wes,

431 posts in this topic
1 hour ago, BlueLyon said:

Until he proves it at top level, he is nothing. 

Right now the biggest prospect we have is RLC who actualy had good season in PL. 

I hope Mount and CHO make it at Chelsea, but their talent is far from enough. If they have the right mentality, they might actualy have a chance. 

By the same token you can argue RLC season means little as how many players have come to us or another big club from mid table teams and flopped, one of which being the best player at the club Ruben was at last season. Mount is a far bigger prospect than RLC and ive seen more than enough of both to come to that conclusion.

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3 hours ago, Tomo said:

By the same token you can argue RLC season means little as how many players have come to us or another big club from mid table teams and flopped, one of which being the best player at the club Ruben was at last season. Mount is a far bigger prospect than RLC and ive seen more than enough of both to come to that conclusion.

In terms of what? Pure talent?

McEachran was incredibly gifted too. But he didnt have the right set of mentality aswell the club didnt trust him enough.

To me the biggest prospect is the one who has most chances to make it here and become important player. Real life is all about being in right place at right time and take advantage of situation. Players with lesser talent jumped over very talented ones because they had other abilites.

I have seen enough players with huge talent who failed. I have stopped judging players based on their talent. 

Look at the facts. Ruben has proven himself as promosing player in PL, one of key things our club looks after. Baker had amazing season in vitesse too, didnt work out. Tammy had great season in Championship, but so far not good in PL. 

Right here, Ruben is a step ahead. He has impressed enough to be even called in English squad in WC and even played two games as starter. He is becoming a player with certain reputation that the club cant ignore. Dont even look at his "talent" or "potential". He made it this far and the furthest of any chelsea youth in ages, maybe closest is Bertrand.

You look only at talent and potential I guess. Mount is super talented. Musonda is too, so was McEachran. 

But it wasnt enough. Bertrand wasnt extra talent, but he made his way and if anyone, he would be the closest to a starter of all products we made over past few years and thats all what matters. 

Biggest prospect. I see that as someone with most chances making it here. 

Ruben has already gained quite some experience over past year. His reputation is rising. Yes, maybe he will never be world class player, but he has right now the most tools to make it as a chelsea player.

The experience and reputation is making him the bigger player who will need game time and we will have to give it to him or he will leave. 

Yes its then up to him to grab it, but he is at very high stage of getting into our team. Mount? He only had a good season in vitesse that NO ONE AT THE CLUB SEEMS TO CARE (if it was different, Baker would be in plans last summer, but he was loaned to Championship, not even PL). 

Talent wise, Mount is very likely bigger talent than RLC. But prospect as in playing one day for Chelsea? Right now no. RLC is physicaly ready which is number one thing and while mentality, he isnt realy impressive, he managed to impress Southgate to pick him and he managed to impress Palace coaches to actualy play him, something many of our prospects fail to do in Championship, nevermind PL. 

As for level of Eredivisie, its low, very low. 

Once Mason impresses on higher level, and club actualy recognizes that, we may discuss further. 

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5 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Ruben has proven himself as promosing player in PL

Hes been OK at a small club like Palace but still didn't set the world on fire. I really cant see what the hype is. What am I missing?

Him playing for England only shows the lack of decent English CMs there are.

IF Sarri sees SOMETHING in him I don't right now then I'll get behind him and give him my support but I would much prefer us to bring in Golo and a playmaker like Kovacic or Seri Maybe even give Barkley a chance if we are going to be tight fisted.

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I really cant imagine this is true but if it is I'd be fuckin furious

 

Chelsea transfer news: Aleksandr Golovin in line for shock loan AFTER joining Blues

CHELSEA transfer target Aleksandr Golovin could be loaned straight out to Vitesse Arnhem once he joins the Blues this summer.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/983150/Chelsea-transfer-news-Aleksandr-Golovin-shock-move-Vitesse-loan-rumours-gossip

 

Heres the Dutch media

https://www.vi.nl/nieuws/russische-wk-ster-golovin-in-beeld-bij-vitesse

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Just now, Unionjack said:

I really cant imagine this is true but if it is I'd be fuckin furious

 

Chelsea transfer news: Aleksandr Golovin in line for shock loan AFTER joining Blues

CHELSEA transfer target Aleksandr Golovin could be loaned straight out to Vitesse Arnhem once he joins the Blues this summer.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/983150/Chelsea-transfer-news-Aleksandr-Golovin-shock-move-Vitesse-loan-rumours-gossip

 

Heres the Dutch media

https://www.vi.nl/nieuws/russische-wk-ster-golovin-in-beeld-bij-vitesse

Lolllll

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6 hours ago, Unionjack said:

Hes been OK at a small club like Palace but still didn't set the world on fire. I really cant see what the hype is. What am I missing?

Him playing for England only shows the lack of decent English CMs there are.

IF Sarri sees SOMETHING in him I don't right now then I'll get behind him and give him my support but I would much prefer us to bring in Golo and a playmaker like Kovacic or Seri Maybe even give Barkley a chance if we are going to be tight fisted.

All Im saying he is the first chelsea product to succeed in PL after Bertrand. We both agree he isnt ridiculously talented and his mentality is questionable, but so far it worked for him.

He will never be the same level like Iniesta or Xavi midfield star, but he can easily become something like Dembele.

I dont know why people love to just look at our youth talent, if they can be one of world best and make judgement. Like Mason is very talented, he will be a star. Musonda was talented, he will be a star. McEachran was talented,  he will be a star. Bertrand meanwhile wasnt anything realy special, but was the one to make it and would still be better RB than anything we had since Cole.

Being physicaly fit, being injury free, having mentality and desire to play week in week out is what will make you a good player. Extra talent will make you great player. But without the former, you can have all the talent, he will never suceed without physical and mental atributes. And RLC has that right now. Thats all Im saying. I never said he will be great player or had seriously impressive season. But he did have good season in PL, something our extremely talented youth players never managed to achieve.

Forget the hype, no one is talking about hype and RLC being super talent. All Im saying is he as of right now has made largest jump of our youth players and is actualy playing in PL. Mount for all his talent he has, means jack shit sorry. Same with Odoi or Musonda. I would love them to succeed but the only ''hype'' is around those players because all they did was play in youth sections and netherlands, and people consider them future GOATs already.

If anything else, fantastic talents completely flopped in PL/championship. To succeed in PL is first step to become good player. RLC made that step, now we will see what is his ceiling and how capable he can become by playing week in week out.

We should appreciate it more that one of our academy actualy broke through. At least RLC will be midftable player going by the predictions right now. At least, could be even great one day. Mason has talent to be much better, same with Odoi, but until those two actualy make something in PL or any of top 5 league first divisions, they are not even fit to play in bottom PL team, nevermind in top team and they can have all the talent in the world.

Everyone wants our academy to produce the next Messi, Hazard, Lampard,...I would be more than happy to have someone in squad like Lingard at United, someone who came through academy and just enjoys playing for the club and is valuable asset, despite not having greatest skills. It would be a start.

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4 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

All Im saying he is the first chelsea product to succeed in PL after Bertrand. We both agree he isnt ridiculously talented and his mentality is questionable, but so far it worked for him.

He will never be the same level like Iniesta or Xavi midfield star, but he can easily become something like Dembele.

I dont know why people love to just look at our youth talent, if they can be one of world best and make judgement. Like Mason is very talented, he will be a star. Musonda was talented, he will be a star. McEachran was talented,  he will be a star. Bertrand meanwhile wasnt anything realy special, but was the one to make it and would still be better RB than anything we had since Cole.

Being physicaly fit, being injury free, having mentality and desire to play week in week out is what will make you a good player. Extra talent will make you great player. But without the former, you can have all the talent, he will never suceed without physical and mental atributes. And RLC has that right now. Thats all Im saying. I never said he will be great player or had seriously impressive season. But he did have good season in PL, something our extremely talented youth players never managed to achieve.

Forget the hype, no one is talking about hype and RLC being super talent. All Im saying is he as of right now has made largest jump of our youth players and is actualy playing in PL. Mount for all his talent he has, means jack shit sorry. Same with Odoi or Musonda. I would love them to succeed but the only ''hype'' is around those players because all they did was play in youth sections and netherlands, and people consider them future GOATs already.

If anything else, fantastic talents completely flopped in PL/championship. To succeed in PL is first step to become good player. RLC made that step, now we will see what is his ceiling and how capable he can become by playing week in week out.

We should appreciate it more that one of our academy actualy broke through. At least RLC will be midftable player going by the predictions right now. At least, could be even great one day. Mason has talent to be much better, same with Odoi, but until those two actualy make something in PL or any of top 5 league first divisions, they are not even fit to play in bottom PL team, nevermind in top team and they can have all the talent in the world.

Everyone wants our academy to produce the next Messi, Hazard, Lampard,...I would be more than happy to have someone in squad like Lingard at United, someone who came through academy and just enjoys playing for the club and is valuable asset, despite not having greatest skills. It would be a start.

Aye. OK. Hear ya.

And kinda agree. I just dont know if we have the luxury RIGHT NOW to keep him at the Bridge. I dont see him as good enough to be part of our CM STARTERS and he won't be satisfied to be on the bench fighting to be in the 1st team.

I would love sometime to be a comfortable mid table club. No pressures on fighting for promotion or relegation. Even just for a couple of years while a new manager takes over with a new system being implemented.

We could experiment bringing whatever cherrty picked youth we fancied. Try out different positions etc.

But of course our owner would never let that happen and allot of our spoiled fans would start screaming for the managers head on a stick

I dunno what the answer is with RLC, Whether he will progress or not. But i do agree he has done best out of our academy so far. I'm also at a loss as to WHY our academy dont progress and make a name for themselves after our youth teams win everything there is to win.

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9 hours ago, Unionjack said:

Hes been OK at a small club like Palace but still didn't set the world on fire. I really cant see what the hype is. What am I missing?

Him playing for England only shows the lack of decent English CMs there are.

IF Sarri sees SOMETHING in him I don't right now then I'll get behind him and give him my support but I would much prefer us to bring in Golo and a playmaker like Kovacic or Seri Maybe even give Barkley a chance if we are going to be tight fisted.

Honestly for me he was worse than bang average for Palace. He had maybe 4 decent games over the course of the season. Fuck knows how he made the England world cup squad. 2 goals 3 assists as a wide player/attacking midfielder..... 

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1 hour ago, Unionjack said:

I dunno what the answer is with RLC, Whether he will progress or not. But i do agree he has done best out of our academy so far. I'm also at a loss as to WHY our academy dont progress and make a name for themselves after our youth teams win everything there is to win.

Probably because we fill them with money when they are 15,16,17 years old. They get everything on silver platter, driving around in ferraris and living in mansions. Tough life without much money teaches you how to survive, to push through hard times and simply said to hussle. Many South American players are world class because best they do is play football and they have to keep improving to earn money. When you are 16 and you get paid 20k per week, why the hell would you work your ass off if you already have everything? They are spoiled. Lack proper role models to show them its worth to give it all and succeed in football, that money isnt all.

Then there is the real lack of trust and faith in these kids. We loan them automaticaly like a machine. Win all with youth selections, get a short period with first team, loan them out to championship/vitesse, loan them again and again until they show something. If they impress loan them some more, if not sell them. Obviously all that comes in the back of their mind. Its probably very hard even for those who actualy want to be a part of Chelsea, to be motivated if they know there is almost zero chance of them making it because the club will buy 5 new players for that spot before they become good. Its obviously very hard for big club to give them chances, but we are another level of bad in youth integration.

But thats slowly a part of modern football. All this money in football is destroying in its very beggining with so many talented players ruined. 2000-2008 was much much better era of football, becuase there were huge characters playing and all kids wanted to be like them. Now its Neymar and Pogba wannabes everywhere, more interested in who has cooler haircut. Instagram generation.

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So if we do get Sarri and this guy im trying to figure out which Midfield role he will play? Will he be the Hamsik most attacking or the Jorginho Deep lying? I keep hearing its either this guy or Seri not both. Thats somewhat concerning, he is having a great world cup but he is young and looks quite slim. 

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14 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

In terms of what? Pure talent?

McEachran was incredibly gifted too. But he didnt have the right set of mentality aswell the club didnt trust him enough.

To me the biggest prospect is the one who has most chances to make it here and become important player. Real life is all about being in right place at right time and take advantage of situation. Players with lesser talent jumped over very talented ones because they had other abilites.

I have seen enough players with huge talent who failed. I have stopped judging players based on their talent. 

Look at the facts. Ruben has proven himself as promosing player in PL, one of key things our club looks after. Baker had amazing season in vitesse too, didnt work out. Tammy had great season in Championship, but so far not good in PL. 

Right here, Ruben is a step ahead. He has impressed enough to be even called in English squad in WC and even played two games as starter. He is becoming a player with certain reputation that the club cant ignore. Dont even look at his "talent" or "potential". He made it this far and the furthest of any chelsea youth in ages, maybe closest is Bertrand.

You look only at talent and potential I guess. Mount is super talented. Musonda is too, so was McEachran. 

But it wasnt enough. Bertrand wasnt extra talent, but he made his way and if anyone, he would be the closest to a starter of all products we made over past few years and thats all what matters. 

Biggest prospect. I see that as someone with most chances making it here. 

Ruben has already gained quite some experience over past year. His reputation is rising. Yes, maybe he will never be world class player, but he has right now the most tools to make it as a chelsea player.

The experience and reputation is making him the bigger player who will need game time and we will have to give it to him or he will leave. 

Yes its then up to him to grab it, but he is at very high stage of getting into our team. Mount? He only had a good season in vitesse that NO ONE AT THE CLUB SEEMS TO CARE (if it was different, Baker would be in plans last summer, but he was loaned to Championship, not even PL). 

Talent wise, Mount is very likely bigger talent than RLC. But prospect as in playing one day for Chelsea? Right now no. RLC is physicaly ready which is number one thing and while mentality, he isnt realy impressive, he managed to impress Southgate to pick him and he managed to impress Palace coaches to actualy play him, something many of our prospects fail to do in Championship, nevermind PL. 

As for level of Eredivisie, its low, very low. 

Once Mason impresses on higher level, and club actualy recognizes that, we may discuss further. 

By all accounts Mason is excellent mentally, forget the level for a second, sometimes it's just too obvious like it was with Bale and KDB when they started out. Mount's speed of thought and impact on games is galaxy's ahead of Musonda, McEachran etc, it's worth noting that Charly went on loan to a weaker league and epically flopped.

The maturity and intelligence in Mason's game is down to him, not the Eredivisie.

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6 minutes ago, Tomo said:

By all accounts Mason is excellent mentally, forget the level for a second, sometimes it's just too obvious like it was with Bale and KDB when they started out. Mount's speed of thought and impact on games is galaxy's ahead of Musonda, McEachran etc, it's worth noting that Charly went on loan to a weaker league and epically flopped.

The maturity and intelligence in Mason's game is down to him, not the Eredivisie.

Are you worried about Golovin taking time/role away from Mount? i havent watched either extensively but they look like pretty similar players. I havent read through these long posts you guys are having but you would know far better than me about MM.

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1 minute ago, akgw13 said:

Are you worried about Golovin taking time/role away from Mount? i havent watched either extensively but they look like pretty similar players. I havent read through these long posts you guys are having but you would know far better than me about MM.

Not really, Mount will probably have a PL or German loan and force his way in AC style.

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14 minutes ago, akgw13 said:

So if we do get Sarri and this guy im trying to figure out which Midfield role he will play? Will he be the Hamsik most attacking or the Jorginho Deep lying? I keep hearing its either this guy or Seri not both. Thats somewhat concerning, he is having a great world cup but he is young and looks quite slim. 

No we realy need both. We have hardly any form of creativity in the team from the back to the front of the pitch.And this has been going on awhile.

With Golo and the wee baldy man running back and forth we need someone who can take the ball from defence and fan it about where needed. And if they can add a goal and assist it would be perfect. We just dont have anyone to compare to Golo or the playmaker we need.

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No we realy need both. We have hardly any form of creativity in the team from the back to the front of the pitch.And this has been going on awhile.
With Golo and the wee baldy man running back and forth we need someone who can take the ball from defence and fan it about where needed. And if they can add a goal and assist it would be perfect. We just dont have anyone to compare to Golo or the playmaker we need.
Yeah agreed, Golovin should be considered an attacking acquisition, shouldn't have any impact on what we do deeper in midfield. Kante, Seri, Golovin would all fit nicely... Work rate in that midfield would be insane

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1 hour ago, Belgiannutt said:

Golovin isn't a deep playmaker at all. He's a runner, dribbler. An attacking palyer that works hard both sides of the field. The Hamsik role probably although could also play as a LW,LM in a 4-2-3-1 with Hazard then as a 10. 

Can't imagine us not going for a deep playmaker. That position is absolutely vital for the Sarri system to work.

Agree. I just don't see it with RLC. He looks like a nothing player. He's tall, strong, fast and technically sound but none of that actually gets put to use as an actual quality, as something that he offers the team consistently. 

He doesn't have the work rate to be a defensive player so that just leaves an attacking role but what does he offer going forward ? Not a great shooter, not a great dribbler, not a goalscorer, not a great passer, no great ball movement, no great hold up play. 

What exactly does he offer that would make him worth having here ?

Yeah definitely agree regarding RLC. 

Dont think Hazard will ever play as a 10 here under Sarri or any other manager. He played as a second striker which is similar last season and in after a few good games really didn't look like that positional chance gave him more freedom or more influence on the game. Even for Belgium at the world cup hes looked a bit indifferent at times. Think hes better coming from wider and expect him to be returned to LW under Sarri if he comes. 

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8 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Yeah definitely agree regarding RLC. 

Dont think Hazard will ever play as a 10 here under Sarri or any other manager. He played as a second striker which is similar last season and in after a few good games really didn't look like that positional chance gave him more freedom or more influence on the game. Even for Belgium at the world cup hes looked a bit indifferent at times. Think hes better coming from wider and expect him to be returned to LW under Sarri if he comes. 

I don't know. It's a possibility imo although i would agree that a 4-3-3 with Hazard as a LW seems more likely.

I think the 3-5-2 worked for a while with Hazard as a second striker/nr 10. I think the problem was that teams started playing a lot more narrow and compact against us . 

Most teams would play in a very narrow and deep 5-4-1 or 5-3-2. It just made it difficult to get Hazard on the ball and if he did get the ball  he was isolated surrounded by opponents and the only close support he had behind him (Bakayoko, Kante) with both wingbacks too far away too really link up with and closely marked by the opponents wingbacks making them difficult to reach. 

I think it would be different under Sarri. He plays with a lot more players in between the lines making it a lot more difficult to close off the passing lanes to all of them. 

Besides that he also focuses more on quick short passing and also the composition of the midfield would also be different. From a Bakayoko-Kante -Fabregas to a Hazard-Kante-deep playmaker that can actually defend midfield.

I suppose we'll see. Even if Hazard plays as a LW i would still expect him to play in between the lines. That's where he prefers to play and from what i've seen that's also how Insigne played and how Sarri likes his attackers to play.

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5 hours ago, Tomo said:

By all accounts Mason is excellent mentally, forget the level for a second, sometimes it's just too obvious like it was with Bale and KDB when they started out. Mount's speed of thought and impact on games is galaxy's ahead of Musonda, McEachran etc, it's worth noting that Charly went on loan to a weaker league and epically flopped.

The maturity and intelligence in Mason's game is down to him, not the Eredivisie.

I hope you are right, but until he shows it in bigger league, I just dont want get any hopes up.

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