The English Football Thread

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Chelsea u21 at West Ham at 7pm tonight UK.

Rush Green Stadium London

 

Chelsea u18 at West Ham at 11 am Saturday morning UK TIME.

Little Heath Sports Ground in Romford

Edited September 27 by KEVINAA

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Ranking each Premier League club for ‘dark arts’

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5788866/2024/09/27/premier-league-club-dark-arts-ranked/

Football’s dark arts. You may have read, heard or watched a bit about that subject this week.

Wind-up merchants, rule benders, injury fakers, divers, pinchers, medical staff who love running on the pitch, time-wasters… every club has them, but how dark arts-y is your team?

We can — and will — use metrics and data to help discover the best/worst offenders, but nefarious behaviour cannot always be quantified: teams should also be subjected to the eye test.

Two points.

First, this is a (reasonably) light-hearted exercise so, please, no nasty messages.

Second, this is not a hall of shame. Far from it; teams who best utilise the dark arts tend to be more successful. A bit of devilment can go a long way and, well, nice guys finish last. Or, nice guys don’t tend to win anything.

Talking of which, in reverse order, let’s start our list.

GO DEEPER

Infuriating, embarrassing - and funny: What players really think of 'shithousing'

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20. Tottenham Hotspur

Ange Postecoglou. Principled. Strong moral core. Hates cheating. Fair dinkum.

Spurs play the game quickly, in a “We’ve got no time for time-wasting” manner. They were the quickest team in the league last season for getting the game moving again (24.4 seconds per restart).

“I don’t believe in the dark arts,” Postecoglou said at a press conference this week. “I don’t know how to do it; it’s just not in my make up. My thing has always been, if teams are going to go down that way we’ve got to be even more disciplined to make sure we don’t get distracted.”

Richarlison probably wouldn’t agree… maybe that’s why he’s been out of favour? James Maddison is always on the wind-up, but with a Del Boy-esque knowing smile and cheeky wink.

Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg was the king at falling on the ball, talking to the ref, slowing things down and managing the game. But now? It’s just not what Spurs do, mate.

xSH (expected shithousery) – 1/10

19. Bournemouth

Bournemouth had a fine reputation for the dark arts in the Championship when they were managed by Eddie Howe (everyone pretend to be shocked) but only West Ham and Manchester City had fewer bookings for time-wasting or not retreating last season.

Plus they’ve loaned out goalkeeper Neto — renowned for winding up opposition fans or taking the sting out of a game with an achingly long goal kick. He’s gone to Arsenal (everyone pretend to be shocked).

xSH – 1/10

18. Crystal Palace

Palace were probably too nice anyway — perhaps a legacy from gentleman Roy Hodgson’s era — but since losing serial free-kick-winner Jordan Ayew, or Joachim Andersen (who helped earn Darwin Nunez a red card for headbutting on his home Liverpool debut a couple of years ago) and Wilfried Zaha, for so long a strong contender for the Premier League’s most annoying player award, Palace are even softer now.

Maybe if they toughened up they’d finish higher than 12th.

xSH – 1/10

17. West Ham United

Only six bookings for time-wasting/not retreating last season, the second-nicest record in the league.

David Moyes just wasn’t that kind of manager. When told before the Europa Conference League final in 2023 that Fiorentina were going to deliberately stop counter-attacks with fouls, he said: “It will be down to the referees to sort that out. We’ll try to play a fair game. From my point of view that’s always the best way to try and do it.”

Julen Lopetegui hasn’t enlisted many dark arts from his players yet. To be fair, he’s got other things to work on first.

xSH – 1/10

GO DEEPER

Who is the best exponent of the 'dark arts' at your Premier League club?

16. Ipswich Town

The fresh-faced Premier League newbies took 37.2 seconds with their restarts against Manchester City in August, the sixth-highest of any side this season, as they desperately attempted to hold on to a *checks notes* 4-1 defeat.

It’s far too soon to tell how easily they’re going to be corrupted by a bloodthirsty lust for Premier League survival.

xSH – 2/10

15. Leicester City

Being really annoying won’t guarantee you Premier League survival — Sheffield United took a league-high average of 31.2 seconds with their restarts last season but were relegated before May — but it might help.

Leicester haven’t had many opportunities to delay/see out victories this season yet but even against Crystal Palace, when they were winning from minutes 21 to 90+2, they arguably didn’t disrupt the game enough and paid the price with a stoppage-time equaliser.

Only one player won more free kicks than Jordan Ayew last season, so he’s a welcome addition to the s***housery stakes, while Jamie Vardy has always played on the edge. They could do with a Robert Huth-type figure — a true dark arts master.

xSH – 2/10

 

14. Brighton

Brighton seem more preoccupied with frivolous matters like playing nice football.

They do have Joel Veltman though: he gives the impression that butter wouldn’t melt but, as Declan Rice’s red card at Arsenal the other week shows, he has another side to him.

He can often be spotted positioning his body in front of the ball to be easily nudged over, and will happily take a yellow for the team with a pull of the shirt or a foul to stop a counter-attacking threat.

He’s smart, too; in four seasons he’s earned 24 bookings but has never been suspended.

xSH – 2/10

13. Everton

There’s a smidgen of evidence this season that suggests Everton aren’t good at seeing a game out.

In their past four games they’ve been 2-0 up against Bournemouth and Aston Villa and 1-0 up against Southampton (in the Carabao Cup) and Leicester, but only have one point and a cup exit to show for their efforts.

If anything, they’re just too nice. Jordan Pickford can take a while with goal kicks and James Tarkowski isn’t afraid of some argy-bargy, but streetwise, underhand dark arts? This lot are an honest bunch.

xSH – 2/10

 

12. Fulham

Well, they have got four yellow cards for time-wasting this season and took seven minutes out of the game for goal kicks in their victory over Newcastle. But are very firmly middle of the road.

xSH – 3/10

11. Liverpool

“We didn’t waste time, we didn’t invent new cheeky things for set pieces, getting rid of gloves or whatever,” Jurgen Klopp said in May. “We just tried to fight harder than other teams. It was an incredible time.”

He would say that, of course, but Klopp’s claims pretty much pass the eye and data tests — Liverpool, after Spurs, were the second-quickest at restarts last season with an average of 24.2 seconds. No wonder they only won a Carabao Cup between them.

It seems Arne Slot has picked up where Klopp left off. They have no time-wasting bookings this season or any notable examples of underhand behaviour. Give it time.

There is Andy Robertson, though. He brings their rating up a level.

xSH – 3/10

GO DEEPER

We need to learn to live with time-wasting - dark arts make football more fun

10. Manchester City

“We are an honest team,” Pep Guardiola said after the draw with Arsenal.

How true is that? Or are City just too busy blitzing the opposition with goals to have to worry about being proper s***houses?

There’s often been talk about City’s tactical fouls — one of their assistants was seen telling players to do it on an Amazon documentary in 2018 (his name was Mikel something?).

But they are very good at winning fouls when in a tight spot. For example, if they’re penned in to a corner when trying to play out, or challenging for a second ball, they’ll get across the man and draw the foul, relieving the pressure. They s***housed Atletico Madrid at their own game in the Champions League in 2022 — Koke said in the aftermath that they were “falling on the floor and wasting time” — which is no mean feat.

Good at winning fouls? Yes. Rotational fouls? Well, they’ve been known to do that, too. But you wouldn’t call them masters. They also had the fewest number of bookings (five) for time-wasting or not retreating last season and were the third-quickest for restarts (25.2 seconds).

xSH – 4/10

 

9. Manchester United

United tend to spend their time scratching their heads at the goal they’ve just conceded/failed to score, but they have their s***house moments.

Andre Onana was booked five times for time-wasting last season, while Bruno Fernandes’ gamesmanship, pestering of referees, dramatically falling to the floor, exaggerating injuries and holding onto the ball to delay play is of an extremely high level.

xSH – 5/10

 

8. Aston Villa

Thirteen bookings for time-wasting or not retreating last season, the second-highest in the league.

And, with Neal Maupay’s departure to France, they surely have the undisputed biggest s***house in the Premier League, nay the country, in Emi Martinez, the king of the delayed penalty, or the delayed goal kick, or the winder-up of opposition fans, players, managers, anybody.

“I think it’s natural,” he told The Guardian last month. “I don’t think about it, I just do it. I’m just a normal guy, a family man.”

Just a normal guy. And a natural-born s***house.

xSH – 6/10

7. Southampton

Only just back in the Premier League and therefore any data from this season is too small a sample size, although it should be noted their restarts took 40.3 seconds on average against Ipswich last weekend as they tried to help see out a 1-0 win having taken the lead in the fifth minute (narrator: “They lasted until the 95th minute”).

However, Southampton, the club who helped pioneer the tactic of stopping play to have a team talk under Ralph Hasenhuttl, are definitely no strangers to the dark arts, if West Bromwich Albion boss Carlos Corberan’s opinion counts for anything.

During the second leg of their play-off semi-final at St Mary’s in May, Corberan seemed to accuse Southampton of delaying West Brom’s entry into the stadium, saying: “We were on the bus for 15 minutes waiting to find the entrance to the stadium. I don’t know why nobody came to help us or followed normal protocol.”

Southampton also brought advertising hoardings in try and negate the threat of Darnell Furlong’s long throws.

“They did things they probably didn’t need to,” Corberan added. Big dark arts potential here.

xSH – 6/10

6. Chelsea

It’s hard to have the dark arts ingrained in your team when the players and manager keep changing every five minutes, but Chelsea give it a go.

They brilliantly s***housed their way to a 2-1 victory at Brighton in May, taking a season-high 50 seconds per restart in a game that saw Reece James sent off in the 88th minute before 11 minutes of stoppage time.

They also had the most bookings in the league last year for time-wasting or not retreating (17).

xSH – 7/10

5. Wolves

Gary O’Neil may be the perennial “lovely guy, to be fair”, but that hasn’t stopped him enlisting suspect methods in a bid to win football matches.

Wolves were the second-worst offenders in the Premier League last season for cards given for time-wasting or not retreating, with 15. Five of those were given to Nelson Semedo, the league’s joint-biggest waster of time. Important ‘r’, there.

Yerson Mosquera escalated matters when he appeared to stick his finger in a place that Arsenal’s Gabriel Jesus really didn’t appreciate on the opening day of the season. Matheus Cunha will go to ground very easily. And Jose Sa earned a reputation for staying down ‘injured’ during tense moments to break up play that season, often leading to a completely impromptu team talk. However, now that the unfortunate Mosquera is out for the season injured and Sa is on the bench, Wolves are a bit nicer.

xSH – 7/10

4. Brentford

Brentford may have lost Ivan Toney and Neal Maupay from last year’s squad, offering a severe blow to their dark arts rating, but anyone who has watched the Bees since their promotion to the Premier League will know that Thomas Frank loves a good s***house.

They were third in the delays league last season, taking 30.1 seconds on average per restart, plus nine bookings for time-wasting or not retreating. When then-Wolves manager Bruno Lage accused Brentford of time-wasting in 2021, Frank didn’t deny it, saying: “I could ask him what he would have done if he was leading a newly promoted team?”

Jurgen Klopp complimented “smart” Brentford after they beat Liverpool in 2023: “When I say they stretch the rules in offensive set pieces — and they do, don’t get me wrong, they are smart but they do — if you singled out every situation you would find five fouls.”

xSH – 7/10

 

3. Nottingham Forest

Ironically for a team who had so many decisions go against them last season, Forest more than enjoy a dabble in football’s underhand tactics. In 2023-24 they took the second longest over restarts (30.2 seconds on average) and already have four cards this season for either time-wasting or not retreating.

Nuno Espirito Santo and his backroom team have long had a reputation for being touchline rapscallions, even going back to their Wolves days in the Championship when then-Aston Villa boss Steve Bruce said: “They are vociferous all the time. That’s their prerogative — we don’t quite behave like that.”

In Ryan Yates, Forest probably have one of the Premier League’s most underhand free-kick winners. Yates has mastered the art of waiting for a player to make contact and then falling dramatically, all in one fluid movement, on to the ball, before transitioning into an impassioned appeal for a free kick. On average, he wins 3.05 free kicks per game.

Yates is also an exceptional wind-up merchant, adept at riling opposition players with subtle fouls or leaving a bit on them after the ball has gone.

xSH – 8/10

 

2. Arsenal

“Yes, I don’t think there are many better than them at it,” Manchester City’s Manuel Akanji said last weekend.

Arsenal almost gave a masterclass in seeing out a game, while having just 12 per cent possession of the ball in that second half at the Etihad.

David Raya took a whole nine minutes out of the game purely by taking 45 seconds per goal kick (there were 12 of them) — a minute more than any team has taken with theirs so far this season.

The average delay of their 32 restarts was 42.7 seconds, the second-highest of any team in 2024-25, while Arsenal now have six yellow cards for timewasting/not retreating this season — two more than anyone else.

“You can call it clever or dirty, but they break up the game, which upsets the rhythm,” City defender John Stones told Sky Sports. “They’ve done it for a few years.”

In mitigation, Arsenal have been down to 10 men in two games this season when trying to see out games, which will up their numbers, and it’s something Arteta has spoken about.

In February after a defeat by Porto in the Champions League, the Arsenal manager said: “There are ways to do it. It is the way you talk to them, showing them clips, training — putting them through scenarios, pinching them a few times as well, learning from other players who do it really well and teams who are masters at it. It is something that has to be developed.”

He’s managed it.

xSH – 9/10

1. Newcastle United

Newcastle have a reputation for dark arts under Eddie Howe that has been very well earned.

Assistant manager Jason Tindall remains one of the league’s biggest wind-up merchants, playing the role of Howe’s attack dog in the fourth official’s ear, generally being active and vocal on the touchline.

Goalkeeper Nick Pope is prone to getting an “injury” at opportune moments when Newcastle need to have a breather and Howe needs to have a word with his team.

You can almost guarantee that Fabian Schar will go down with an apparent head injury in most matches, yet never comes off because of them, while Jacob Murphy is very much a s***houser — he waved Southampton’s Duje Caleta-Car off the field when he was sent off against Newcastle in the Carabao Cup a couple of seasons ago. And a couple of seasons ago Jamaal Lascelles picked up two separate cautions while warming up on the touchline for delaying opposition throw-ins.

In April, after Newcastle won at Brentford, their manager Thomas Frank was furious with Newcastle’s tactics: “We need to look into the dark arts of football and be aware of the sportsmanship,” he said in a press conference, while also revealing that Brentford’s staff were more vocal with the fourth official because “we know that Newcastle have that strategy”, calling out Tindall specifically.

Bruno Guimaraes was, by a distance, the most fouled player in the Premier League last season and he’s at it again this year, with 22 fouls won — more than any other. Second on the list? Anthony Gordon on 17.

Newcastle remain the standard-bearers for the phrase by the philosopher Joey Tribbiani: “If you’re going to do something wrong, do it right.”

xSH – 10/10

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Premier League.

Nеwсаstlе Unіtеd vs Mаnсhеstеr Сіty

28 September 2024 at 12:30.

 

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https://www.vipleague.pm/epl/newcastle-united-vs-manchester-city-1-live-streaming

https://www.vipleague.pm/epl/newcastle-united-vs-manchester-city-2-live-streaming

https://www.vipleague.pm/epl/newcastle-united-vs-manchester-city-3-live-streaming

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https://top.soccerstreams100.io/event/eng-1/man-city-vs-newcastle-live-soccer-stats/704336

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nil 1

Gvardiol

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1 1

NUFC made a pen 5 minutes ago

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IF NUFC has Isak they likely would be up 2 or 3 to 1

He is still out with a broken toe, and they miss his runs

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Citeh REALLY miss Rodri and De Bruyne

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already 7 yellows

could well go double digits

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Rico Lewis in MF is a bit spotty as well

and Foden still looks like something is off

Pep is really going to have to do something special to win the CL and the league without Rodri

they just are such a different team without him (think De Bruyne 5 years ago to see a similar 'must-play' situation)

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Gvardiol is by far their best player today

monster game

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NUFC really lack depth up front (wingers and CFs)

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Grealish has been playing much better lately

so there is a positive for Citeh

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Livramento on

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speaking of depth

80th minute and Citeh are bringing on both Doku and Savinho

lol

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Longstaff almost scored with hsi first touch of the game