Is our midfield good enough?

[eldo 868]

No that a simple mistake to make if you look purely at goals and assists. Look at the games, look who is controlling and dictating play. Look who is dominating midfield and making pinpoint passes to almost everybody on the field. We don't have a midfielder fit enough to lace Xavi's boots in terms of vision and passing.

Here are some videos for you to watch and see what I mean;

Messi a great footballer but Xavi is just as important to Barcelona's success as Messi.

Yes Xavi is great at controlling their midfield, but they don't score goals because of Xavi. They just have better possession.

Why has Spain scored only 8 goals at WC, Germany on the other side scored 16.

Players like Xavi and Xabi are great kind of footballers, but they don't make chances for their strikers and wide players.

Just how Ozil and Xabi play for Real. Both have completely different tasks.

[Styles 9,790]

Yes Xavi is great at controlling their midfield, but they don't score goals because of Xavi. They just have better possession.

Why has Spain scored only 8 goals at WC, Germany on the other side scored 16.

Players like Xavi and Xabi are great kind of footballers, but they don't make chances for their strikers and wide players.

Just how Ozil and Xabi play for Real. Both have completely different tasks.

You must be having a laugh? Are you serious? Xavi doesn't create chances for strikers? :huh: That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Your ignorance is really showing here.

Spain scored 8 goals because teams played a 10-0 formation against them most of the time. Yet they still won, the controlled the game and were decisive when it mattered. Games are tight because the opposition make it tight but they still find a way through. Germany scored 14 because nobody respected them, teams opened up against them and left themselves open to the counter i.e. Germany vs Argentina.What do you think the result would be if teams opened up agains Spain the same way they did against Germany? You would see scorelines of 5-0 or 6-0.

[eldo 868]

You must be having a laugh? Are you serious? Xavi doesn't create chances for strikers? :huh: That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Your ignorance is really showing here.

Spain scored 8 goals because teams played a 10-0 formation against them most of the time. Yet they still won, the controlled the game and were decisive when it mattered. Games are tight because the opposition make it tight but they still find a way through. Germany scored 14 because nobody respected them, teams opened up against them and left themselves open to the counter i.e. Germany vs Argentina.What do you think the result would be if teams opened up agains Spain the same way they did against Germany? You would see scorelines of 5-0 or 6-0.

They played against Columbia last week.

This was the formation.

Villa

Iniesta Xavi Pedro

Xabi Busquets

It was borring, Villa had nothing to do. Only when younger guys like Mata, Llorente and Silva came some chances were created. Also in South Africa, they scored when Fiberglass, who assisted for that goal, came in.

Germany knew where the goal is. Schweinsteiger, Ozil, Muller all of them only saw that goal, that is why Klose scored so many goals. They created chances for him.

[Styles 9,790]

They played against Columbia last week.

This was the formation.

Villa

Iniesta Xavi Pedro

Xabi Busquets

It was borring, Villa had nothing to do. Only when younger guys like Mata, Llorente and Silva came some chances were created. Also in South Africa, they scored when Fiberglass, who assisted for that goal, came in.

Germany knew where the goal is. Schweinsteiger, Ozil, Muller all of them only saw that goal, that is why Klose scored so many goals. They created chances for him.

So what happened when Germany met Spain?

[eldo 868]

So what happened when Germany met Spain?

You are smart enough to figure that out yourself.

[BLionheart 516]

Very interesting topic.

While I firmly believe that with our best midfielders in form and playing our 4-3-3 our midfield is good enough for what we need it to do its rather a question of style rather than ability.

To understand the reasons that caused such a question I feel we need to dwell in this squad's history ('istoree for you lurking Scousers). Ever since Mourinho we've been playing a brand of football that suits midfielders like Essien and where technical ability isn't vital. Our direct football brought results more often than visually attractive play.

Roman's wish for a more attacking style was one of the reasons he hired Scolari who for all his faults turned us into a pretty impressive side in his first few months only to be let down by a squad that didn't match his vision. One of the main reasons behind Hiddink's success was that he opted to switch back to Mourinho's more defensive and direct tactics which our squad (read: midfielders) was designed and build for.

Ancelotti, to his credit, took a far more attacking approach than his predecessors and (again to his credit) managed to get results out of that team along with very impressive football at times. While last season he did succeed in marrying our squad and his football I believe that at the end of the day our current midfield options don't suit the football he tries to play (not good enough, if you will). It'll only become even more painfully obvious if the switch to a midfield diamond isn't temporary.

What's interesting now is what our club (Football Board + Ancelotti) plans for the future. While signing an Essien clone in Ramires probably points towards us continuing utilizing the "runner" type of midfielders its worth noticing that the majority our our young mids (Mikel, Kakuta, McEachran or even Matic who was a CFC player only a month ago) are technically at least equal to anyone we had in Mourinho's days.

superb post

but that just shows that carlo has got it all wrong , a good manager should know that he should play with the best formation and tactics that suits his players instead of trying to force his players to play with his style and his same tactics that has worked with different players , with another team , in another league .....

it's bloody obvious that this isn't the right way for chelsea right now , may be in the future with players like mceacehran and kakuta we might be able to play this attractive play , but while having 2 of essien/mikel/ramires in our midfield... that shouldn't be an option ...

[bababoom 4,478]

No, we create nothing. I honeslty feel sorry for our strikers.

[GodZola 630]

I can't believe some of you think Mikel is an option for the answer to our lack of creativety in our midfield, he is far too slow in moving the ball forward & lve said before Ballack showed them all how to play in that role when he was put in there in the last 15 odd games last season that was instrumental in us winning the title last season, we miss him more than many realise - we finally find a home for him on the pitch where he was excellent & we let him leave!

The problem is Ancelotti, he sets us up with too many defensively minded players against teams that put the bus upfront of the goal, when he should sacrifice a holding midfielder for Josh MacEachran who can open up defences with his superb vision. We don't need 4/5 or even 6 players at the back picking their arse when sides are playing with 1 or even no8ne up top as in Liverpool's case & with the exciting Luiz we could play a back 3 against these f'in frustrating defensive teams, thus once we score we can revert back to a four thus the opposition have to come out.

Yes we lack width but Maloulda has no pace is out of form - yet again, give me a half fit Robben any day & I'm not even going to start on about kalouless. In essence Ancelotti must play a different system for attack/defensively minded teams this will in turn benefit the whole team let alone our midfield but unfortunately Ancelotti is no Mourinho & I think we will continue to perform below par until he makes the necessary changes to formation & personnel.

[Styles 9,790]

I can't believe some of you think Mikel is an option for the answer to our lack of creativety in our midfield, he is far too slow in moving the ball forward & lve said before Ballack showed them all how to play in that role when he was put in there in the last 15 odd games last season that was instrumental in us winning the title last season, we miss him more than many realise - we finally find a home for him on the pitch where he was excellent & we let him leave!

The problem is Ancelotti, he sets us up with too many defensively minded players against teams that put the bus upfront of the goal, when he should sacrifice a holding midfielder for Josh MacEachran who can open up defences with his superb vision. We don't need 4/5 or even 6 players at the back picking their arse when sides are playing with 1 or even no8ne up top as in Liverpool's case & with the exciting Luiz we could play a back 3 against these f'in frustrating defensive teams, thus once we score we can revert back to a four thus the opposition have to come out.

Yes we lack width but Maloulda has no pace is out of form - yet again, give me a half fit Robben any day & I'm not even going to start on about kalouless. In essence Ancelotti must play a different system for attack/defensively minded teams this will in turn benefit the whole team let alone our midfield but unfortunately Ancelotti is no Mourinho & I think we will continue to perform below par until he makes the necessary changes to formation & personnel.

Who said that? Mikel just does something the others can't; retain possession under pressure. Mikel worked well with Deco the most because they could play between them and keep possession. If you watched the 7-1 win over Aston Villa last season you would have seen the superb interplay between Mikel an Deco creating all sorts of angles and passes and involving other players. Mikel doesn't get that sort of interaction with any of the other midfielders because they cannot do the basics.

[Guest justin_3d]

Some great post here.

I think we can agree that our midfield is very weak.

Carlo has some fault, but i can see what he is trying to build. It is why i think it would be stupid to fire him.

I would be worry if we finish out of the top 4, then that's a concern for firing Carlo. But until then, i can see he is building a nice team. When he won the double we where saying let Carlo build his team. He is now doing it, but it will take time.

This major crash in the season can be taken as long as we finish in the top 4 and do descent in the CL. Cause Carlo will improve with the players he have, will get rid of, and will buy.

Carlo showed good proof last season of good football. Let the man do the work.

[The Big Drog 1,110]

I think we could do with a bit more pace out on the wing, Malouda hasn't got an amazing amount of pace but is technically gifted enough and effective enough to maintain his spot on the left wing. Nic Anelka is not a right winger and too often our play gets far too narrow with coming in from the right wing, not only does he come inside but he also drops deep at the same time, almost becoming an auxiliary central midfielder, we really dont need that. Sturridge could definitely play that position next season, with his pace Id fancy him a lot more on the right wing than Nic Anelka.

That being said though I think our main problem is in midfield. Its all a bit slow and pedantic, even with the faster Torres up front making clever runs, our midfield seemingly dont have the ability to pick him out or are just knocking it around in the midfield at too slow a tempo for Torres' runs to make any impact. Without a doubt the main aim in the Summer must be a ball playing midfielder.

[Clevemayer 764]

sorry guys I will repeat we HAVE a strong midfield but carlo don't knows how to put the right team out there and Kostas Post plus Styles posts are the only one I would put my autograph under any time, absolutly spot on, look

Ramires = Speed dynamic stamnia, shooting, good passing and vision Mikel = strong, sublime technique and ball shielding, superb passing great vision, Mc Eachran = superb technique, can skin anybody on his day, wounderfull passing, wounderful vision

this for a 4-3-3

and if kakuta develops the right way like what we could see in his first cameo where he was a wounderful player playing in the hole (10) they can easily play the diamond

thats it, thats a pretty strong midfield and I belive with this guy we could achieve much more than with : Anelka out of form, Malouda out of form, Lamps out of form, drogs with malaira,

so for any point you need we have one sometimes two in midfield

strength

speed

vision

passing

workrate

technique

and some shooting (Ramires seems to have developed pretty fast in that area ind seems miles ahead of Ess right now)

the only problems we have is our manager and our bench, no players there that can replace them AND and this is a BIG AND our Attack, there is no body moving up there, creating nothing and dont do any clever runs, hope torres can put that right... I'm playing football and watching football for 14 years now and playing in the midfield I can tell you, you can be as good as you want to be but if that guys in front of you dont make themselves available, dont run into you're passes, dont have any clue where they have to go and where you will pass to, you will look like a clueless wanker...

I'll got as far as this, put Mikel and Josh in that Barcelona team plus ramires , they will be known as the best midfielders on this planet in a very short period of time lets say two further years...

oh and for that ones complaining about ou're midfields lack of technique and vision:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxdbUXeS37g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf56xfUoLdA&feature=related

[Styles 9,790]

Clevemayer good post and thanks for the videos. I really enjoyed the Mikel one, his ability to shield the ball under pressure and keep possession is excellent.

You're right in that it's not just the midfield but also the attack, they have to come deep, create movement, stretch play, interact with their midfield because they are not seperate functions they have to play as a unit.

Here's a great piece on how our midfield is working, it is basically what we're talking about in this topic. http://www.thehardta...-uncut-diamond/

[Guest justin_3d]

Yeah sounds good. I would like to give a Ramirez, Mikel, Josh a chance. But i doubt Carlo will ever give that a shoot.

[Styles 9,790]

Yeah sounds good. I would like to give a Ramirez, Mikel, Josh a chance. But i doubt Carlo will ever give that a shoot.

I doubt it too but he has to change something soon because the team is looking devoid of any ideas.

[GodZola 630]

Who said that? Mikel just does something the others can't; retain possession under pressure. Mikel worked well with Deco the most because they could play between them and keep possession. If you watched the 7-1 win over Aston Villa last season you would have seen the superb interplay between Mikel an Deco creating all sorts of angles and passes and involving other players. Mikel doesn't get that sort of interaction with any of the other midfielders because they cannot do the basics.

Well unless I am complete dumbass, you have, including in your reply to me!

Mikel is simply not good enough, he doesn't really offer anything offensively, gets caught in possession to frequently, does not distribute the ball quick enough & lastly he has no pace. So he had a decent game against Villa but how many games has he played well? How many goals has he scored in 5 seasons? How many assists? Ramires has already scored more league goals! I respect your opinion but I do agree with you nor do most pundits, fellow fans & neutrals that l speak to. The only time we need him is when we play teams like Barca or Arsenal who will attack us but even then I would prefer Essien & Ramires ahead of him.

As l stated until Ancelotti finally changes the system against defensively minded teams we will drop more points, MacEachran must start games against sides that just defend, technically he is ready, has vision, & will open up teams that 'park the bus' he just needs to develop physically & I'm sure the club have a programme mapped out already for the final piece to polish off our future diamond.

[Guest justin_3d]

Well unless I am complete dumbass, you have, including in your reply to me!

Mikel is simply not good enough, he doesn't really offer anything offensively, gets caught in possession to frequently, does not distribute the ball quick enough & lastly he has no pace. So he had a decent game against Villa but how many games has he played well? How many goals has he scored in 5 seasons? How many assists? Ramires has already scored more league goals! I respect your opinion but I do agree with you nor do most pundits, fellow fans & neutrals that l speak to. The only time we need him is when we play teams like Barca or Arsenal who will attack us but even then I would prefer Essien & Ramires ahead of him.

As l stated until Ancelotti finally changes the system against defensively minded teams we will drop more points, MacEachran must start games against sides that just defend, technically he is ready, has vision, & will open up teams that 'park the bus' he just needs to develop physically & I'm sure the club have a programme mapped out already for the final piece to polish off our future diamond.

I like Mikel and at only 23 he will improve.

Ramires, Mikel, Josh is the midfield of our future.

I rather see Carlo work on this one more, but Essien right now is still Essien. But in a year or two, Mikel, Josh and Ramires will be more better.

[GodZola 630]

I like Mikel and at only 23 he will improve.

Ramires, Mikel, Josh is the midfield of our future.

I rather see Carlo work on this one more, but Essien right now is still Essien. But in a year or two, Mikel, Josh and Ramires will be more better.

As of already stated Justin, I don't rate Mikel, squad player yes but for me he is never get passed Lessen who is by far a more superior player despite his lack of form coming back from 2 serious injuries will take time but he will get back to his best, despite his slow start Ramires is impressing me with each game, that leaves young Josh who for me will be world class if he is nurtured to continue his rapid rise up the pro ladder.

Lastly it has come as no surprise to me that Mikel had been benched in the last 2 games, I would however be very happy for him to prove me wrong & will apologies to you, Styles & co, but I won't hold my breathe!