EURO 2024

[robsblubot 3,498]

I don't particularly share the view that England plays terrible football; they play according to the match conditions.
We saw City turn into a completely different side at the CL final once, and in my view these tourneys are essentially just that with the amount of physicality and drive involved at the knockout stages.
England have also improved from the first match, which is usually key to getting silverware -- start playing well at the right moment.

Don't disagree that Southgate isn't a top manager--they are all managing the top clubs, not NTs. However, his cautious approach is not unheard of and has worked plenty times both at the Euros as well as the WC.

I thought England played better and deserved the win; Yes, the call was questionable (which means it shouldn't have been given), but not absurd IMO.

Stick with my take that the final is up for grabs and both teams have enough quality that can make a difference in moments like these.

Edited July 10 by robsblubot

[OneMoSalah 8,774]

I think its fair to say that due to a bit of luck and some individual moments of quality throughout, England have somehow managed to get to the final without being hugely convincing.

Tonight they actually played a lot better in phases but there is something missing still in moments, from Kane & Saka in particular I feel and also without the ball.

I get Holland didn't create a lot of big chances but they had several sequences where they got into positions a team with better attacking quality would do more with. The Spainish have shown this tournament, they have real quality in attacking positions so it makes for an intriguing game.

But seemed to all fall in place. As sometimes it can. Kane and Saka really do need to step it up though.

Spain definitely come into it as the favourites though, given the level of performances and opposition they’ve beaten to get there. 

Edited July 10 by OneMoSalah

[Fulham Broadway 16,827]

Jimmy Floyd and Southgate as England coaches go way back, they both played together at Boro way before JFH set Stamford Bridge alight

[Vesper 28,765]

   If we play a back 4

here are the head to heads

no bold means basically a draw in terms of who is better atm, in this tourney
 

Unai Simón  v    Jordan Pickford
Aymeric Laporte v    John Stones
Robin Le Normand v    Marc Guéhi
Marc Cucurella  v    Kieran Trippier
Daniel Carvajal  v    Kyle Walker
Rodri  v     Declan Rice
Fabián Ruiz v    Kobbie Mainoo
Dani Olmo v    Jude Bellingham (Olmo is leading the Golden Boot race with only the final to play, and he has played only 5 games, versus 6 for the ones who could overtake him, other than Fabián Ruiz)
Nico Williams v    Phil Foden
Lamine Yamal  v    Bukayo Saka
Álvaro Morata   v Harry Kane

[robsblubot 3,498]

53 minutes ago, Vesper said:

   If we play a back 4

here are the head to heads

no bold means basically a draw in terms of who is better atm, in this tourney
 

Unai Simón  v    Jordan Pickford
Aymeric Laporte v    John Stones
Robin Le Normand v    Marc Guéhi
Marc Cucurella  v    Kieran Trippier
Daniel Carvajal  v    Kyle Walker
Rodri  v     Declan Rice
Fabián Ruiz v    Kobbie Mainoo
Dani Olmo v    Jude Bellingham (Olmo is leading the Golden Boot race with only the final to play, and he has played only 5 games, versus 6 for the ones who could overtake him, other than Fabián Ruiz)
Nico Williams v    Phil Foden
Lamine Yamal  v    Bukayo Saka
Álvaro Morata   v Harry Kane

They are fun to do, but these things ignore characteristics as well as whether it's a significant competitive advantage.
While I can see the list above respects form, a lot of the advantages are marginal and depend on conditions/characteristics.

I honestly read it as "too close to call."
 

[Vesper 28,765]

44 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

They are fun to do, but these things ignore characteristics as well as whether it's a significant competitive advantage.
While I can see the list above respects form, a lot of the advantages are marginal and depend on conditions/characteristics.

I honestly read it as "too close to call."
 

yep, too close to call

intriguing final

I would say a slight edge to Spain, but far from enough to say it would be a huge upset if we best them

[Vesper 28,765]

Bellingham is overdue to have a monster game

[Vesper 28,765]

Watkins: 'Swear' Euro winner planned with Palmer

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/40535878/euro-2024-england-matchwinner-watkins-goal

England match-winner Ollie Watkins swore on his life that he planned the decisive goal set up by Cole Palmer on the sidelines before coming on as substitutes in their 2-1 victory over Netherlands at the European Championship on Wednesday.

With the game tied 1-1, Watkins and Palmer came into the game at the 80-minute mark and connected on a goal that will go down in England history, as the Aston Villa striker beat Dutch keeper Bart Verbruggen in second-half injury time to send the Three Lions to a second consecutive Euro final.

"Unbelievable. I've been waiting for that moment for weeks, for weeks," Watkins said after the game. "It's taken a lot of hard work to get to where I am today, and grateful that I got the opportunity and I've grabbed it with both hands and I'm delighted.

"I swear on my life. I said to Cole Palmer, 'We're coming on today and you're going to set me up,' and that's why I was so happy with Coley.

"I knew as soon as he got the ball he was going to play me and you've got to be greedy, touch and finish and when I've seen it go in the bottom corner, it's the best feeling ever."

It was a sweet victory for England and Gareth Southgate, who have been subjected to major criticism from supporters for the lacklustre nature in which they navigated their way through this year's tournament in Germany.

But critics aside, Southgate, who took over in 2016, has now led them to at least the quarterfinals in the past four major tournaments, the only European side to achieve this feat.

They lost to Italy on penalties in the final of Euro 2020, but now have the chance to go one better against Spain in Sunday's showcase in Berlin and win the first major men's trophy for England since the 1966 World Cup.

"It shows the more modern England way but also the resilience and character of the group," Southgate said after the match. "Ollie Watkins has trained like that every day. He has trained for his moment no matter how frustrated.

"[The players] had each others' back, they bonded so well and tonight it was an example of that."

England needed penalties to overcome Switzerland in the past eight before the late winner Wednesday, and Southgate said his team had learned from knockout matches since the 2018 World Cup in Russia where they lost in the semifinals to Croatia.

"We are more calm going into the knockout games. In Russia we had not won a knockout game in 10 years," Southgate said. "To be able to take the team to the first final overseas I am immensely proud of that."

England won the 1966 World Cup on home soil while the Euro 2020 final was also held at Wembley. This final will be the first played away from home for an England team, with their opponent Spain the in-form team at Euro 2024 so far.

"We will have to get the ball off them first," Southgate said of their next opponents. "It is not as simple as us having the ball and making them run. We have to be exceptional with the ball and without it. They have been the best team."

Spain are listed as favorites in the final, according to ESPN BET, with La Roja at -155 and England at +120 to win the tournament.

 

[Special Juan 27,421]

6 hours ago, Vesper said:

Bellingham is overdue to have a monster game

Needs to, scored a goal and done fuck all all tournament apart from roll around like a little pussy and throws his arms around.

He's untouchable though, hence why we only see mini cameo roles for certain players

[Vesper 28,765]

42 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

done fuck all all tournament apart from roll around like a little pussy and throws his arms around.

really?

you must have a very short memory

Edited July 11 by Vesper

[Special Juan 27,421]

2 minutes ago, Vesper said:

really?

you must have a very short memory

One flash of brilliance amongst a complete load f average performances from the so called second coming of Jesus aka the golden boy.

Palmer has offered more and he's hardly sniffed the grass

[Vesper 28,765]

6 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

One flash of brilliance amongst a complete load f average performances from the so called second coming of Jesus aka the golden boy.

Palmer has offered more and he's hardly sniffed the grass

but you literally said he had done nothing of import..........

if not for that goal, we were out

[Vesper 28,765]

Ollie Watkins, Cole Palmer and an England goal that was worth the wait

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5630246/2024/07/10/ollie-watkins-cole-palmer-england-euro-2024-goal/

Cole Palmer gets onto the ball, midway into the Netherlands’ half. Five rows in front, a thirty-something-year-old man grabs his father’s shoulder.

The Chelsea winger takes five touches, all with his left foot, and slides his pass through. Ollie Watkins receives it with his back to goal.

One touch eases him away from Stefan de Vrij. One swing of his right leg sends the ball back through his legs and into the opposite corner.

And now Watkins and Palmer, having spent most of this Dortmund evening sat on the bench, rethreading their laces and waiting for the summons from their manager Gareth Southgate, are off and running.

UK readers watch here:

 

U.S readers watch here:

 

 

Watkins has scored 27 goals and managed 13 assists for Aston Villa last season, but he was not the obvious England substitute for Southgate to introduce against the Netherlands. Harry Kane was labouring but this had been his best game of the tournament and, under the England we thought we knew under Southgate, the default option was to leave him on.

If not, Ivan Toney had made an impact in his last two appearances, the Brentford striker creating a moment of chaos against Slovakia, before cutting through it with a cool head against Switzerland.

Watkins, in contrast, had been given 20 minutes, and that was at the end of a poor England performance against Denmark. His career has been a slow burn, forged via Exeter City and a loan spell, 10 years ago, at non-League Weston-super-Mare.

“Recently, I’ve got a bit frustrated,” he said post-match on Wednesday. “I don’t like to be on the bench. I’ve had the best season of my career. I’ve had messages from friends saying to be patient, your chance will come.

“When I’m sat there, I’ve said to Dean Henderson: ‘I can make a difference today. I need to get on that pitch.’”

The same frustrations applied to Palmer. Like Watkins, 2023-24 had been the season of his career — 27 goals and 15 assists, but Palmer is more than numbers. He plays slowly, with relaxation and grace, until he doesn’t, and the ball is past you in a blur.

Make no mistake though, Palmer left Manchester City last summer because he had had enough of waiting his turn, and after not starting a match for England this tournament, he was probably feeling the same way. After 80 minutes, he replaced Phil Foden, one of those players he could not force from City’s side.

That morning, the pair had shared a conversation.

“I swear on my kids’ lives, I told Cole Palmer earlier today, we’d be coming on and he’d set me up and I’d score,” said Watkins.

There is a burial ground of empty promises like this in football, uttered and then unfulfilled, scattered onto dressing room floors like used bibs. But players need their opportunities — and so far at this European Championship, Palmer and Watkins had not had theirs.

Here, Foden might not have been withdrawn. The 24-year-old had enjoyed a fine first half, dropping into spaces, rattling the ball between his feet, and hitting the post with a curving shot. But between 70 and 80 minutes, his energy levels dropped. Southgate made the change.

“We certainly weren’t taking Phil off because of his performance,” said Southgate. “We wanted to make that gamble in normal time rather than in extra time. Having been in extra time twice, we didn’t want to go through that again.”

GO DEEPER

The Briefing: Netherlands 1 England 2 - Late substitute Watkins hits winner to set up Euro 2024 final with Spain

This was a gamble on a night in which England took calculated risks. It was shown in the third minute by Kyle Walker, who knocked it around one side of Cody Gakpo and gave chase down the other, a sign that he would give it a go. It is an old playground trick, but it signified the same back then as it does now.

At half-time, Kieran Trippier came off for Luke Shaw. Southgate was tight-lipped on the extent of any injury, but there would have been a temptation to keep him on, protect what you have, shut things down. Bringing on the left-footed Shaw signified the hope of something more.

England’s goal was the accumulation of those studied risks, both in the personnel and the play.

It started with Declan Rice. In the seventh minute, the Arsenal midfielder had given the ball away for Xavi Simons’ scorching opener, caught out from behind and left with a bitter taste of burnt orange.

But Rice came back, his ability to set the game’s tempo improving throughout the match.

Sometimes, it is worth the risk of losing the ball. And so, with stoppage time creeping closer, he punched a pass through Joey Veerman and Gakpo.

 

And so to Kobbie Mainoo. The Manchester United midfielder is another who has had to wait, stuck on the bench behind Trent Alexander-Arnold and then Conor Gallagher for England’s group games.

He had actually kicked off this semi-final, which somehow feels like too important a job for a 19-year-old, even if he had been asked to contain the Dutch midfield for the next 90 minutes. But almost two hours later, he was still there, having now played more knockout minutes for England at this tournament than Kane.

Rice’s pass was inside of him, and delivered at pace, but Mainoo stretched to control it, keeping the move alive and marooning Tijjani Reijnders. Cole Palmer was at the other end, a move made in Stockport.

And now we’re back at the beginning, with Palmer on the ball and Watkins running on. There are seconds left, the risks have been taken and there is no waiting anymore.

You know the rest by now. You have watched it, rewatched it, you have spoken about it and drunk it. But here it is, once more.

Palmer’s inside ball.

Watkins’ touch. Watkins’ angled shot.

 

And so Watkins is running with the smile of a man in shock, a man who both thought he should be here but never believed he would be.

He is running with the smile of a man who has taken England’s men into the final, and he is running with the smile of the man who has bided his time, who has waited at Weston-super-Mare, waited at Exeter City and waited at England, but who knows everything was worth waiting for.

[Vesper 28,765]

arfffffffffffffff

 

[cosmicway 1,323]

[cosmicway 1,323]

It was never a pen but as the Dutch had decided to park the bus for the remaining 70 minutes Engfraud were bound to equalize.
The truth is Netherlands were just another of the "easy" opponents resulting from the fixed draw to make life easy for Southgate (balls dipped on ice I believe).
If Netherlands were a notch better than Georgia-Iran, they could n't include them too in the other group.
 

[NikkiCFC 7,941]

It was also handball before. 

Second goal also wouldn't happened if ref got 2 decisions right just minute or two before when Netherlands didn't get a clear corner and foul given to England after clear tackle. 

[cosmicway 1,323]

The penalty was or was n't a penalty depending who kicked whom.
Kane's theatrics are immaterial and even if true he may have kicked his opponent and feel more pain.