25. Moisés Caicedo

[dimmas 126]

  On 07/07/2024 at 15:48, NikkiCFC said:

It's up to manager. We have everything you want in our midfielders. Are we gonna have best midfield in the world or getting outplayed by Bournemouth It's completely on Maresca. First of all, they need to be played on right positions because everyone seems to have different idea where Enzo and Caicedo should play. Imo best for both is number 8 with Lavia behind. I don't see them working as solo 6 or in pivot together. Caicedo is fine in pivot with Gallagher or Lavia. Also Enzo is not good up as number 10. If Palmer or KDH are involved in MF Enzo should be dropped. 

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enlighten me, did Maresca use Caicedo as a solo 6 in City's match? It was a truly atrocious performance from him.
I hope Maresca never uses Caicedo in that role again, but I'm afraid he will keep trying. He looks poor as a DM, don't ask him to fill that role.

What worries me more is that Caicedo doesn't even have good positional play. He still has very poor awareness. He can't shield the critical area in the center of the pitch, and he makes amateurish mistakes under slight pressure. It's sad to see.

In this current setup, Lavia is much, much better than Caicedo. While Lavia looks very capable as DM, Caicedo seems too amateurish to play this role

Edited August 6, 2024 by dimmas

[YorkshireBlue 3,175]

  On 06/08/2024 at 03:03, dimmas said:

enlighten me, did Maresca use Caicedo as a solo 6 in City's match? It was a truly atrocious performance from him.
I hope Maresca never uses Caicedo in that role again, but I'm afraid he will keep trying. He looks poor as a DM, don't ask him to fill that role.

What worries me more is that Caicedo doesn't even have good positional play. He still has very poor awareness. He can't shield the critical area in the center of the pitch, and he makes amateurish mistakes under slight pressure. It's sad to see.

In this current setup, Lavia is much, much better than Caicedo. While Lavia looks very capable as DM, Caicedo seems too amateurish to play this role

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And you based all that on his first pre season game? Even though he's had less time to get to grips with the system, good work fella 👌

[Mhsc 984]

  On 06/08/2024 at 09:51, YorkshireBlue said:

And you based all that on his first pre season game? Even though he's had less time to get to grips with the system, good work fella 👌

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Am I losing my mind or did Caicedo not finish the season playing as a 6 with Cucu inverting to play next to him? And did he not look absolutely world class at all times?

[YorkshireBlue 3,175]

  On 06/08/2024 at 10:03, Mhsc said:

Am I losing my mind or did Caicedo not finish the season playing as a 6 with Cucu inverting to play next to him? And did he not look absolutely world class at all times?

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No mate, your not loosing your mind, I fear a few others have though 

[robsblubot 3,595]

He did improve a lot from his early games, in which he was pretty much a liability costing us points.

You take the whole season tho, and for me, he wasn't that great; certainly not the player people claimed he was at Brighton.

I expect him to resume playing at a good level (not his early season form), but I wouldn't project his end of the season form towards this season. Way too many variables esp around fitness levels and other sides losing interest. We were one of the few clubs still playing for something in the end.

We also need to take into account the new manager and system.

[King Kante 1,564]

  On 06/08/2024 at 10:03, Mhsc said:

Am I losing my mind or did Caicedo not finish the season playing as a 6 with Cucu inverting to play next to him? And did he not look absolutely world class at all times?

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Erm, no. Caicedo played well in the last month of the season, however I wouldn't say it was world class and I would also point to the fact that this only happened due to Cucu and Gallagher doing the heavy lifting that he had proven to be incapable of doing all season. 

I said last season that when Lavia gets fit, he takes Caicedo's place owing to his better technical skill and understanding of the deep lying CM role - I base this on what I saw of Lavia at Soton and Caicedo last year. For me, Caicedo either ends up:

a) in the utility role RDZ put him in at Brighton (as he also recognised his technical limits/physical gift to run around a lot - a fact that gets brushed over)

b) his starting minutes in CM will come when we have to play really defensive as he isn't getting in ahead of Fernadez as the ball playing CM. 

c) we move to a midfield three. 

He may start for the first couple of months owing to his fee, but if Lavia can stay fit and pick up Enzo's system, he will soon lose his place to him in a double pivot.

[ulvhedin 508]

any news about yesterday injury?

[Fernando 6,537]

I remember dreaming of having Caicedo and Enzo for midfielder before we sign them. 

And last season I was a bit worried about this dream but I'm staring to see why I so much wanted this partnership.

Edited September 21, 2024 by Fernando

[Thor 2,488]

  On 21/09/2024 at 22:27, Fernando said:

I remember dreaming of having Caicedo and Enzo for midfielder before we sign them. 

And last season I was a bit worried about this dream but I'm staring to see why I so much wanted this partnership.

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Caicedo is holding up his end - Enzo needs to step up his level of play. Feel like Enzo needs to be in a 3 man midfield. 

[Fernando 6,537]

  On 22/09/2024 at 01:17, Thor said:

Caicedo is holding up his end - Enzo needs to step up his level of play. Feel like Enzo needs to be in a 3 man midfield. 

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This is where lavia would have fit like a glove. But he is always injured..... 

[Stats 7,084]

I always stood up for him in this thread. I remember he was getting unfairly bashed. I said people need to look at his age and the fact that he has not fully settled, however once fully settled he is going to be the player we saw at Brighton and we are starting to see that. Brilliant performance yesterday. Won virtually all his duels and also controlled the tempo. He played an identical pass for Jackson last season when we beat the Hammers 5-0 at the Bridge.

[robsblubot 3,595]

Caicedo had an excellent game against a very poor WHU (us vs them too soon to tell), but I thought Enzo was also good. Cuccu movement behind them worked last season and seems to be working once again.

The trick is to make the midfield look like a five-people midfield without having 5 CMs in there.
When I started watching football, teams routinely employed 4 CMs. 2 holding + 2 in more advanced positions with lots of variations of course. That's no longer the case because it's no longer necessary given the intensity and movement from all players. Teams do not end up with fewer players in that area though... quite the opposite esp the better sides.

WHU match was very weird like a training session. I think we played well, but WHU did not show that day.

Edited September 23, 2024 by robsblubot

[IMissEden 21]

I’m glad he finally resembles a £20m player, we have improved from the £6m dodgy raw youngster, now we are serviceable mid 

[IMissEden 21]

  On 22/09/2024 at 13:14, Stats said:

I always stood up for him in this thread. I remember he was getting unfairly bashed. I said people need to look at his age and the fact that he has not fully settled, however once fully settled he is going to be the player we saw at Brighton and we are starting to see that. Brilliant performance yesterday. Won virtually all his duels and also controlled the tempo. He played an identical pass for Jackson last season when we beat the Hammers 5-0 at the Bridge.

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Is this because of West Ham who showed out the worst performance of any top 5 leagues this season. Is not the bar to measure with. Other contexts are. In which he remains a liability. Cannot be a top player while also being erratic. His up and down performances which are that, will stay that, because deeper, he plays like he’s anxious, always - presumably comes in hyped up or nervous or whichever predisposition taken that fuels erratic play. He is still a joke. A broken clock gets it right two times a day type thing. He has plenty errors ahead. Top players may have a couple errors ahead. This won’t fix, because it’s how he plays. Unlike top players. Would be torrid and so shit in any top side today that has true balance. Madrid or City, would be sat on the bench fast. Have to zoom out from a context of in this moment as a mid table team when compared to Enzo’s current form. That’s not how we measure players at all. Or it is, how most measure players, hence constant YoYo opinions based on form. Should all make assessments if can, and stick to. The fundamentals are obvious in each player, their good and their bad. It’s also obvious which fundamentals are crucial in impeding or watering a top side. I hate to my core that we are tied to playing this level because of the figure he cost. 

Edited September 23, 2024 by IMissEden

[Vesper 29,456]

Glad to have him on the team. EOS. No cleverclogs swipes taken.

DMFs, listed by valuation (bold are players I rated to buy)

Rodri   (likely out for the season)  
Declan Rice (was too costly for me)
Aurélien Tchouaméni (idiot old board could have had him for £25 to £30m)
Bruno Guimarães 
Moisés Caicedo (did not approve of the insane spend though)
João Neves (likely atm to be a better player overall than Enzo, and was £49m cheaper)
Martín Zubimendi (same as Neves situ, I wonder if Citeh make a January move for him due to Rodri's horrid injury)
João Palhinha   
Amadou Onana    
Hakan Çalhanoğlu    
Manuel Ugarte (Manure may ruin him though)
Morten Hjulmand 
Roméo Lavia
Alan Varela
Sandro Tonali

[Vesper 29,456]

Chelsea star Moises Caicedo sets record straight on Enzo Fernandez partnership fears

Moises Caicedo and Enzo Fernandez remain Chelsea's first-choice midfield pairing but the duo's partnership has been subjected to continued scrutiny from both pundits and supporters

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/Chelsea-news-moises-caicedo-enzo-33877431

Chelsea midfielder Moises Caicedo insists his partnership with Enzo Fernandez is blossoming, despite suggestions they cannot play together.

The £222million duo remain Enzo Maresca's first-choice midfield pairing but pundits and supporters have continually raised concerns that the two big-money signings do not complement one another's game due to their similar styles.

Last December, former boss Mauricio Pochettino spoke openly about those claims and warned their on-pitch understanding will take some time.

But Caicedo remains adamant they are working together, stating: “Enzo and I get along very well, we talk, you can see it on the pitch, we are getting along better, we are playing more games together.”

“I am happy with how the season has started, working hard to continue doing well. Every game is better. I am adapting more and more to the club, with the new coach."

Earlier this week, Alan Shearer claimed the arrivals of both Caicedo and Fernandez effectively forced Conor Gallagher out of the club following his transfer to Atletico Madrid.

Shearer said: "The issue Gallagher had was when Chelsea started paying the vast amounts of money for people like Moises Caicedo and Enzo Fernandez. Then it was always going to be difficult for a local lad to stay and play because, essentially, those players have to play to justify the transfer fee.

"That leaves people like Gallagher with a decision to make because you’re not going to play regularly, they’re always going to be ahead of you. And they’ll always be on more money than you, so you have to say good luck to the guys that do choose to go abroad."

Meanwhile, Caicedo - speaking while away on international duty with Ecuador - also claimed Cole Palmer can rival Erling Haaland for the Premier League golden boot this season.

The prolific Manchester City phenomenon already has 10 goals to his name in just seven matches but Palmer is his closest competitor, alongside Bryan Mbeumo, with six.

Caicedo said: "He smells goals. He helps a lot when he scores, when he opens games, he is very important for us. He helps us open games very early. He will be there fighting with Haaland.”

Palmer, who has also registered five assists, recently bolstered his numbers with a stunning four-goal haul against Brighton. He has since been named the Premier League's Player of the Month after also winning England's Men's Player of the Year award.

[Stats 7,084]

 

  On 05/05/2024 at 07:19, Stats said:

We signed Caicedo at age of 21. At age of 21 Kante, was playing in Ligue 2. Caicedo will improve here. I am sure. So if you ask who the better player is at aged 21, Caicedo definitely is. Kante joined Leicester at age 24, but problem with this forum is they treated young players as players who have completed their prime of football. Caicedo is still learning and will get better and I am convinced, majority of people will be changing their words on him.

He was fantastic last season. Yes the price tag was high but along with MacAllister and Mitoma, were their best players. But of course people are going to ridicule him and not give him a chance. First season in a disjointed squad. Give him time.

 

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I think I can gleefully state I am right on this now. People wrote him off way too quickly and was not willing to give him time. I wish fans did give patience. In fact who remembers when Modric first joined Real and was voted worst signing of the season... and then look how tables turned. Caicedo is becoming a dominant force for us. Controlling games, winning tackles and has a real eye for a pass too.

  On 06/12/2023 at 01:55, Magic Lamps said:

pretty much a one season wonder. He is bang average and just regressed to his normal level here. Never wanted him. Sometimes he looks tidy in possession, puts in  a nice tackle here and there. But long phases of the game just pass him by. Plus he has 1-2 atrociously bad turnovers per game. Some of which have cost us goals.  Those he seems unable to get out of his game. All markings of a mediocre footballer. At this point, he has a long way to go to prove me wrong. 

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Not calling you out but just interested to see now, nearly a year on if you think he has proved you wrong? I think a majority of people were unconvinced by him tbh but I think he has been consistently good for a while noe.

[Magic Lamps 11,677]

  On 27/10/2024 at 22:04, Stats said:

 

I think I can gleefully state I am right on this now. People wrote him off way too quickly and was not willing to give him time. I wish fans did give patience. In fact who remembers when Modric first joined Real and was voted worst signing of the season... and then look how tables turned. Caicedo is becoming a dominant force for us. Controlling games, winning tackles and has a real eye for a pass too.

Not calling you out but just interested to see now, nearly a year on if you think he has proved you wrong? I think a majority of people were unconvinced by him tbh but I think he has been consistently good for a while noe.

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Good question. He has definitely improved and we have to give him some credit that he basically was our sole holding mid for a season where we had poor overall defensive organisation. He has stopped most of these absolute brainfarts leading to goals by now which was why my assessment back then was so scathing. I still think we massively overpaid and he will never be a player worth 115m but he at least looks adequate now the team is finding its feet. So, I would not say he has proved me wrong yet but at least he is going int he right direction. There are still a few DMs I‘d have over him out there, but with the squad we have he clearly has his place in the starting lineup