Mikel John Obi

[robsblubot 3,502]

24 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

Yeah, I don't mean that it's actually Willian's fault. Someone should have picked him up once he went into the box. But obviously all of this would have been irrelevant had Kenedey and especially Cahill not made huge mistakes in the goal.

 

That's just simply false as I remember, off the top of my head at least two interceptions he made inside PSG's half that set up attacks for us. One of the reasons why those stats and ratings mean little...

world goes around... a few pages back and it is you quoting stats from these same sites... pass completion.

But fair enough. My apparently too subtle point is that perhaps your opinion of Mikel is the extravagant one. He doesn't seem to be the most popular player out there - fans, pundits, sites, and former players.

I think this site has very peculiar opinions about certain players - some too favorable and some too negative. Very easy to determine which is which.

I personally think Mikel will be forgotten the same month he leaves the club. I'm just choosing to ignore him sooner *.

* I barely watch Chelsea play these days - not something I enjoy doing so I just don't. Perhaps next season... cheers

[CHOULO19 24,332]

17 minutes ago, Robguima said:

world goes around... a few pages back and it is you quoting stats from these same sites... pass completion.

But fair enough. My apparently too subtle point is that perhaps your opinion of Mikel is the extravagant one. He doesn't seem to be the most popular player out there - fans, pundits, sites, and former players.

I think this site has very peculiar opinions about certain players - some too favorable and some too negative. Very easy to determine which is which.

I personally think Mikel will be forgotten the same month he leaves the club. I'm just choosing to ignore him sooner.

I used stats about specifics, I don't use stats to evaluate a player or even a single performance of his, and certainly not those stupid 'scores'! 

So, when someone says that Mikel only passes backwards, yes, the stat about how many of his passes are forward of backwards, is relevant. Even if the stat, is not 100% right, because they never are with those sites, it is still a valid point.

Pass completion, which you mentioned, yes can be misleading in a single game, but when a player constantly has the highest pass completion rate for game after game (and in this case season after season) then it is very much a valid point to say that this player is able to circulate the ball safely. 

Player ratings and scores, on the other hand, are borderline meaningless because they convey next to no useful information. 

[robsblubot 3,502]

36 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

I used stats about specifics, I don't use stats to evaluate a player or even a single performance of his, and certainly not those stupid 'scores'! 

So, when someone says that Mikel only passes backwards, yes, the stat about how many of his passes are forward of backwards, is relevant. Even if the stat, is not 100% right, because they never are with those sites, it is still a valid point.

Pass completion, which you mentioned, yes can be misleading in a single game, but when a player constantly has the highest pass completion rate for game after game (and in this case season after season) then it is very much a valid point to say that this player is able to circulate the ball safely. 

Player ratings and scores, on the other hand, are borderline meaningless because they convey next to no useful information. 

Don't disagree with much there and agree that Mikel is a good short passer - numbers show that too (not only eyeballs). For me though, that's so very little... so not enough.

His defensive numbers are not great. Don't even have to look at a particular game, but his overall defensive numbers are poor for a DM. And his attacking numbers are very low for a CM.

So, perhaps the scores are reflecting that he's only good at one thing and missing some attributes that the position demands in their view (and mine)? But yes, arbitrary scores aren't that important.

Even though I did not watch the game, I'd prob pick a few players ahead of him as best player - wild guess.  And I'd say the majority of people would at the very least pick Costa ahead of Mikel? prob not a wild guess.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Thought I was going crazy with that 'zero interception' stat. Actually downloaded the match to check if I am still sane, and literally two minutes in an interception that created our very first chance of the match:

 

21 minutes ago, Robguima said:

Don't disagree with much there and agree that Mikel is a good short passer - numbers show that too (not only eye balls). For me though, that's so very little... so not enough.

His defensive numbers are not great. Don't even have to look at a particular game, but his overall defensive numbers are poor for a DM. And his attacking numbers are very low for a CM.

So, perhaps the scores are reflecting that he's only good at one thing and missing some attributes that the position demands in their view (and mine)? But yes, arbitrary scores aren't that important.

Even though I did not watch the game, I'd prob pick a few players ahead of him as best player - wild guess.  And I'd say the majority of people would at the very least pick Costa ahead of Mikel? prob not a wild guess.

I never said that Mikel is not a limited player. He's limited by his pace, mobility and attacking instinct. But he also does the non-glamorous stuff that could be vital for a team like covering for his midfield partner and fullbacks, positional awareness and tactical discipline, physical and aerial strength in midfield (which we sorely missed when Matic was playing instead this season) and ball retention and safe circulation.

His defensive numbers are lower than expected (not THAT low, btw) because defensively he's a player that contains rather than destroys. He forces plays wide, blocks passing lanes, occupies important space...etc.

Btw, I don't think many people would have thought that Mikel was our MOTM (he undoubtedly had a good game, though nothing extraordinary). But I thought he was because of the tactical role he played both in pressing and keeping Di Maria quiet. 

Costa got most votes for MOTM because he scored a brilliant goal but in reality for most of the match he was just walking of at best jogging when he didn't have the ball at his feet because it was very clear that he was playing while injured (which Guus confirmed after the game). If anything, Cesc was probably the player that 'shone' the most... 

[manpe 10,861]

23 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

Costa got most votes for MOTM because he scored a brilliant goal but in reality for most of the match he was just walking of at best jogging when he didn't have the ball at his feet because it was very clear that he was playing while injured (which Guus confirmed after the game). If anything, Cesc was probably the player that 'shone' the most... 

Completely agree. Apart from the goal Costa didn't do much, constantly offside or bad decision making and losing the ball. I also agree that Cesc was probably our best player. Also thought Azpilicueta was very bad with 2 fatal mistakes for both goals. Mikel was okay.

[y10edn 185]

Hardly ever get involve in this arguments but reflecting on the PSG game Costa was flat before his goal and at any time he holds the ball you fear he would lose it, on the other hand Mikel was pressing ahead of Cesc which I believe was a tactical move to ensure PSG kicked the ball out rather than play from the back. we lost to a better, stronger side that have been building over the Years.

If we had taking our chances it would have been another result.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

47 minutes ago, manpe said:

Completely agree. Apart from the goal Costa didn't do much, constantly offside or bad decision making and losing the ball. I also agree that Cesc was probably our best player. Also thought Azpilicueta was very bad with 2 fatal mistakes for both goals. Mikel was okay.

Azpi has been worryingly shaky since Guus' return and he keeps making a lot if mistakes. He's been no where near as solid at RB as he was at LB... 

[manpe 10,861]

20 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

Azpi has been worryingly shaky since Guus' return and he keeps making a lot if mistakes. He's been no where near as solid at RB as he was at LB... 

Maybe he's still adjusting to the positional change? He was played at LB exclusively for 2 seasons, at RB he's been since JT's injury about a month ago. But I agree, Azpi hasn't been anywhere near his solid self and it actually started before he was moved to the other side..

[CHOULO19 24,332]

36 minutes ago, manpe said:

Maybe he's still adjusting to the positional change? He was played at LB exclusively for 2 seasons, at RB he's been since JT's injury about a month ago.

Tbf, it's also quite a change going from JT to Ivanovic playing next to you... 

[manpe 10,861]

1 hour ago, CHOULO19 said:

Tbf, it's also quite a change going from JT to Ivanovic playing next to you... 

Actually it's Cahill playing next to Azpi, but I get your point.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

18 minutes ago, manpe said:

Actually it's Cahill playing next to Azpi, but I get your point.

Is it me, or have they actually alternated from one game to another? First game after JT's injury was Iva left and Cahill right, then against Norwich it was definitely the other way round because I made a point to take notice. If I'm not mistaken, then it's very weird as you'd want your back four as settled as possible.

[robsblubot 3,502]

8 hours ago, CHOULO19 said:

Thought I was going crazy with that 'zero interception' stat. Actually downloaded the match to check if I am still sane, and literally two minutes in an interception that created our very first chance of the match:

 

I never said that Mikel is not a limited player. He's limited by his pace, mobility and attacking instinct. But he also does the non-glamorous stuff that could be vital for a team like covering for his midfield partner and fullbacks, positional awareness and tactical discipline, physical and aerial strength in midfield (which we sorely missed when Matic was playing instead this season) and ball retention and safe circulation.

His defensive numbers are lower than expected (not THAT low, btw) because defensively he's a player that contains rather than destroys. He forces plays wide, blocks passing lanes, occupies important space...etc.

Btw, I don't think many people would have thought that Mikel was our MOTM (he undoubtedly had a good game, though nothing extraordinary). But I thought he was because of the tactical role he played both in pressing and keeping Di Maria quiet. 

Costa got most votes for MOTM because he scored a brilliant goal but in reality for most of the match he was just walking of at best jogging when he didn't have the ball at his feet because it was very clear that he was playing while injured (which Guus confirmed after the game). If anything, Cesc was probably the player that 'shone' the most... 

That was good anticipation - dunno how they count interceptions... They may have counted that as a bad pass from the back for ex.

not much disagreement from me aside from very specific points, but we've been there before and much of our disagreement comes down to personal preference in style of play.

[manpe 10,861]

Am just watching Chels-Everton highlights and regarding the first Lukaku goal Mikel was pathetic. Sure Romelu bullied Azpi and Ivanovic and sure he made Cahill breakdance, but Mikel had a good opportunity to disrupt his run or do ANYTHING, at least go with him, but big Mike just stood there like a pole. Awful awful defending.

[Miguelito 459]

Am just watching Chels-Everton highlights and regarding the first Lukaku goal Mikel was pathetic. Sure Romelu bullied Azpi and Ivanovic and sure he made Cahill breakdance, but Mikel had a good opportunity to disrupt his run or do ANYTHING, at least go with him, but big Mike just stood there like a pole. Awful awful defending.

He really does have such an annoying tendency to just let things happen. He lets so many people just run right by him and in to a dangerous space. It's not just cause he's slow either. He just chooses not to follow people.

[manpe 10,861]

1 hour ago, Miguelito said:

He just chooses not to follow people.

Yeah... Lukaku left Ivan kissing the grass and Azpi admiring his back, but in the end both ended up closer to him than Mikel and Lukaku was running straight at him before cutting to his left. I was baffled, didn't notice it during the game. The more I replay it, the more I'm convinced Mikel was the main culprit, because the initial situation happened far away from the goal, yet he was still allowed to run by our anchor man. I would make a gif of it if I knew how to. 

[mccg 1,528]

Another Mikel transfer saga this summer...Think we should flog him to China.Thanks for your services.But let the rebuild start with afew worldclass upwardly mobile CM/DM,to start with!

[the wes 7,212]

Chelsea midfielder John Obi Mikel, 28, will consider making a move to the Chinese Super League in the summer. (Standard)

[Special Juan 27,424]

I'd take nothing less then 30M for the midfield warrior.