Mason Mount

[Mufassir08 2,400]

30 minutes ago, It's too big said:

To be fair, we can all continue to say certain players aren't ready, but you have Dele Alli thriving for Spurs, and he came from a league one side. 

Trent Alexander-Arnold has had his breakthrough season at Liverpool and he never even went out on loan once!

[Jase 43,479]

Near 12 minutes highlights of Vitesse's match last night...

 

[Tomo 21,733]

2 hours ago, The Skipper said:

It’s only the Eredivisie, wouldn’t get too excited if I was you. Mount is talented, but not ready for us yet. RLC has played at a higher level and has had a good season at Palace. He’s way more ready for us, and even then, I’d arguably have him out on loan again rather than sitting on the bench. Mount needs as many games as he can get so he should go out on loan to a stronger league. Maybe a good team in Germany or France.  

It may be the Eredivisie but Courtois and KDB were only playing in the Belgium league before they smashed La Liga and the Bundesliga respectively, inin fact we got Robben from the Dutch league at the same age, sometimes talent is just too obvious. That said i wouldn't be too adverse for him getting a Bundesliga loan but if he came back (and our next manager picked on merit) i honestly believe he would be a starter or at worst borderline by Christmas, he's that good!!

I'd love to be wrong but i just can't see it with Ruben, he just doesn't have the fitness or tactical intelligence required for our level. Both Conte and Roy have tried to hide utilize him in other positions and i just can't help but shake off the feeling that there's a very, very good reason for that.

[DDA 9,691]

3 hours ago, The Skipper said:

. Mount is talented, but not ready for us yet. RLC has played at a higher level and has had a good season at Palace.

What is ready?? 

I keep reading this notion that anybody slightly related with our youth side isn't ready. 

Why can't we just give somebody a run in the team and see how they get on?

If Drinkwater and Bakayoko (based on form) can get a run and we still win games with them in the team, then why can't we risk playing Mount or Odoi?

Sometimes I'm sure football is being over complicated and players are being over analysed.

If a lad has ability, which Mount obviously does, then why not let him play?

You can't have done any worse than the established players I have mentioned above.

[The Skipper 20,593]

1 hour ago, DDA said:

What is ready?? 

I keep reading this notion that anybody slightly related with our youth side isn't ready. 

Why can't we just give somebody a run in the team and see how they get on?

If Drinkwater and Bakayoko (based on form) can get a run and we still win games with them in the team, then why can't we risk playing Mount or Odoi?

Sometimes I'm sure football is being over complicated and players are being over analysed.

If a lad has ability, which Mount obviously does, then why not let him play?

You can't have done any worse than the established players I have mentioned above.

It’s not about what I think. It’s about what the manager thinks of him, and whether he’ll get enough playing time. Would you be happy to have Mason play Drinkwater’s minutes or play week in week out at the right club, in the right league to aid his development? 

[The Skipper 20,593]

3 hours ago, Tomo said:

It may be the Eredivisie but Courtois and KDB were only playing in the Belgium league before they smashed La Liga and the Bundesliga respectively, inin fact we got Robben from the Dutch league at the same age, sometimes talent is just too obvious. That said i wouldn't be too adverse for him getting a Bundesliga loan but if he came back (and our next manager picked on merit) i honestly believe he would be a starter or at worst borderline by Christmas, he's that good!!

I'd love to be wrong but i just can't see it with Ruben, he just doesn't have the fitness or tactical intelligence required for our level. Both Conte and Roy have tried to hide utilize him in other positions and i just can't help but shake off the feeling that there's a very, very good reason for that.

Yeah, they got loans at good clubs in good leagues. That’s why I’m saying Mason needs more game time to develop more. I can’t see a new manager coming in and taking a chance on Mount straight away. The Dutch league is incredibly weak, take it from someone who has watched its decline over the years. Whilst a 19 year old who didn’t even start at the start of the season has truly grown and finished the season very strongly; I wouldn’t come to conclusions like that just yet - I’d rather him play week in, week out at a good club than be a bench warmer or squad player here - we’re notoriously bad at promoting youth.

Regarding RLC... Biggest thing he’s lacking in is stamina, that I agree on. But apart from that, he’s actually been pretty good at Palace. Hodgson thinks he’s a proper proper talent and wants to buy him. I agree with your assessment in general though - he has potential to be a good player for us if he connects a few things - but will those connect? He needs a top manager that believes in him. My main point with the RLC comparison is that RLC is more ready than Mount because he’s played at a higher level. Even got capped for England (Southgate is a big fan). Mount needs a loan like RLC is having now for me. 

[The Skipper 20,593]

4 hours ago, It's too big said:

To be fair, we can all continue to say certain players aren't ready, but you have Dele Alli thriving for Spurs, and he came from a league one side. 

Exception to the rule, not the norm. Culture here at CFC with youth is completely different - Ali probably would’ve never made it here. 

[The Skipper 20,593]

4 hours ago, Unionjack said:

I still cant see RLC as Chelsea standard. Well demending on what standard we want to achieve. He still looks very akward and clumsy to me. Tho he is looking better to last season so its done him some good. MAYBE another season??

But Mount does need taking in hand and have a proper structure set up for this next step. A loan to a PL club maybe.

What always does my head in is WHY our AMAZING youth teams win everything yet as individuals they dont make any real progress. I would dearly love to know why.

My thinking is they have grown up together many since they were 6/8 years old so they know each others moves etc. Theyre all mates and get on great. So when they leave all that its a very big change.

Now I'm wondering IF they would progress better if they spent a season or 2 with the 1st team, similar to what Conte has done with some and Mou did with Happy.

Let them get some minutes here n there (Admittedly a bit more than Conte has given them). Do it gradually so they are still around 'their home'. Thats my thought anyway.

See last page re: RLC pal. 

We’ve got plenty of top talents though. Jay Dasilva, Mason Mount, Hudson-Odoi, RLC, Ampadu, Dujon Sterling just to name a few are all players that should at least be close to the first team squad but there’s literally no gateway/path from academy to first team. It’s one of the biggest problems at the club. 

[Unionjack 7,531]

9 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

See last page re: RLC pal. 

We’ve got plenty of top talents though. Jay Dasilva, Mason Mount, Hudson-Odoi, RLC, Ampadu, Dujon Sterling just to name a few are all players that should at least be close to the first team squad but there’s literally no gateway/path from academy to first team. It’s one of the biggest problems at the club. 

I understand that they dont get to our 1st team.

But even when they get loaned out or play for another club the seem to fail to shine.

Can you name 1 that has made a good name for himself for more than 1 season?

[The Skipper 20,593]

Just now, Unionjack said:

I understand that they dont get to our 1st team.

But even when they get loaned out or play for another club the seem to fail to shine.

Can you name 1 that has made a good name for himself for more than 1 season?

To be fair, the crop of youth before this current crop coming through right now were not as talented (no disrespect to guys like Chalobah, Baker etc. because some of their age mates like Christensen or even RLC to a certain extent have broken through/still have a chance). I’m more optimistic for some of the guys I mentioned above tbh. They are more talented in general, thus will probably shine more.

Look at Jay Dasilva winning POTY at Charlton, and Mason Mount himself winning FPOTY at Vitesse. They are clearly too good for those sort of teams. Only thing we can really do is hope that now Abramovich seems to be less trigger happy, a more fostered culture will be developed at the club where young guys like the above have a better opportunity to showcase their talents. 

[Unionjack 7,531]

30 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

To be fair, the crop of youth before this current crop coming through right now were not as talented (no disrespect to guys like Chalobah, Baker etc. because some of their age mates like Christensen or even RLC to a certain extent have broken through/still have a chance). I’m more optimistic for some of the guys I mentioned above tbh. They are more talented in general, thus will probably shine more.

Look at Jay Dasilva winning POTY at Charlton, and Mason Mount himself winning FPOTY at Vitesse. They are clearly too good for those sort of teams. Only thing we can really do is hope that now Abramovich seems to be less trigger happy, a more fostered culture will be developed at the club where young guys like the above have a better opportunity to showcase their talents. 

I know exactly what you man but I think you miss my point a little.

Say youre an airbrush sprayer working at Harrys garrage and youre really good and you have some big clients but Harry goes bankrupt so you have to get a job doing the same thing. You get a job in the next town at ABC motors. All your old clients ould still bring you their business because you are so good.

Now when our lads go get a job at another club they should be able to replicate what they did in iur yourh teams by right.

But many dont do they for whatever reason.

I'm wondering if its because the TEAMS are so good as a unit. They all know each other well and have gelled perfectly. So they dont have that at their new jobs.

[DDA 9,691]

1 hour ago, The Skipper said:

It’s not about what I think. It’s about what the manager thinks of him, and whether he’ll get enough playing time. Would you be happy to have Mason play Drinkwater’s minutes or play week in week out at the right club, in the right league to aid his development? 

I would rather him have Bakayokos minutes. That would aid his development far more than playing at Vitesse.

[The Skipper 20,593]

23 hours ago, Unionjack said:

Now when our lads go get a job at another club they should be able to replicate what they did in iur yourh teams by right.

But many dont do they for whatever reason.

I'm wondering if its because the TEAMS are so good as a unit. They all know each other well and have gelled perfectly. So they dont have that at their new jobs.

Problem here is that most of the time the club doesn’t find the right club for these guys. 

[The Skipper 20,593]

22 hours ago, DDA said:

I would rather him have Bakayokos minutes. That would aid his development far more than playing at Vitesse.

I would rather him play week in week out tbh. 

[DDA 9,691]

11 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

I would rather him play week in week out tbh. 

Surely 15 games or so at Chelsea along with training alongside top level talent is far more rewarding than playing and training week in and week out at Vitesse.

[Tomo 21,733]

14 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

Problem here is that most of the time the club doesn’t find the right club for these guys. 

Often players just find their level. Take Bamford for example, we had no problem finding him successful loans in the Championship but when it came to the PL nothing stuck. The harsh reality is 90% of the youth and loanee army will never be the required quality for Chelsea which means they will at some point go on loan to a level that's too high for them (Ugbo in the Championship for a recent example).

[!Hazard! 3,394]

'Right club' can mean so many different things, not just the manager or the starting eleven at a given loan destination. It's also the structure of the club, the culture, the language, the city, the training facilities and so many other things. All these things contribute to the happiness and performance of these very very young guys. Loanees aren't regarded as long-term solutions at these clubs either, and thus managers have no problem putting them on the bench unlike with their own talents.

Sometimes everything just works out perfectly as in the case of Christensen and Courtois. Many times, as we've seen, talented or semi-talented young players have failed to perform at the loan club for some reason and haven't reached their full potential.

If Harry Kane was a Chelsea academy graduate, he would probably be playing in the Championship right now. Let's remember that when he went out on loan, he didn't set the world alight and wasn't regarded as anything special. Despite him being mediocre on loan (5 goals in 18 games in the Championship), he was given a chance at Spurs and never looked back. Fast forward couple years and many see him as one of the best strikers in the game.

I think Mason Mount has performed well enough on loan and should be in the first team next season. He has done everything that was asked of him and then some. Sending him out on loan for another year despite stellar performances is sending a wrong kind of message not just to him but to all the other loanees and youth players in the academy as well.

[Unionjack 7,531]

12 minutes ago, !Hazard! said:

'Right club' can mean so many different things, not just the manager or the starting eleven at a given loan destination. It's also the structure of the club, the culture, the language, the city, the training facilities and so many other things. All these things contribute to the happiness and performance of these very very young guys. Loanees aren't regarded as long-term solutions at these clubs either, and thus managers have no problem putting them on the bench unlike with their own talents.

Sometimes everything just works out perfectly as in the case of Christensen and Courtois. Many times, as we've seen, talented or semi-talented young players have failed to perform at the loan club for some reason and haven't reached their full potential.

If Harry Kane was a Chelsea academy graduate, he would probably be playing in the Championship right now. Let's remember that when he went out on loan, he didn't set the world alight and wasn't regarded as anything special. Despite him being mediocre on loan (5 goals in 18 games in the Championship), he was given a chance at Spurs and never looked back. Fast forward couple years and many see him as one of the best strikers in the game.

I think Mason Mount has performed well enough on loan and should be in the first team next season. He has done everything that was asked of him and then some. Sending him out on loan for another year despite stellar performances is sending a wrong kind of message not just to him but to all the other loanees and youth players in the academy as well.

Its very difficult to do that with us having so many supposedly 'with potential' I'm sure that Conte has brought into the 1st team squad many more than any of our managers, OK Theyve not seen much playing time and I do think they could of had more but just training alongside our lads and getting the atmosphere of the game from benchside will help them alot for when they do get their chances to shine.