Independent Scotland

[The_Flash 1,144]

The whole Rangers thing is just a joke, there are multiple Rangers fans I know that are voting no solely because they are Rangers fans and they sing 'God save the queen' and all that bullshit.... football should have nothing to do with voting yes or no for independence.

I highly doubt that, don't be so ridiculous i think people on either side will decide sensibly based on way more than that.

Please do not start some petty sectarian debate. I was merely referring to the flag.

It's not about football it's about history, generations of history. Rangers are royalists/unionists whatever you want to deem it so of course most Rangers fans will be voting to keep the Union.

Fine you obviously don't like Rangers totally up to you but the club as a whole means a lot to many people so don't be so childish as to call us a joke

Just because we are proud to be British, which is more than can be said for some people.

So what we are proud to sing our national anthem. It's pretty pathetic people who are not. .

I really think this thread should be locked before it gets ugly as a lot of debates in Scotland are at the minute.

[Fulham Broadway 16,923]

It is an emotive issue, and there are fears that Scotland will be divided regardless of a No or Yes vote on the 18th, which isnt healthy for Scotland or the UK.

[The_Flash 1,144]

It is an emotive issue, and there are fears that Scotland will be divided regardless of a No or Yes vote on the 18th, which isnt healthy for Scotland or the UK.

Very true but the problem already exists hence what I want a definitive NO!!!

[Fulham Broadway 16,923]

Very true but the problem already exists hence what I want a definitive NO!!!

So thats a No then. I think youll get your wish.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

I know there are more pressing issues to discuss which I have no clue of, but, again, why isn't this a two thirds vote but a simple majority vote?

[Muzchap 8,966]

I know there are more pressing issues to discuss which I have no clue of, but, again, why isn't this a two thirds vote but a simple majority vote?

I know there are more pressing issues to discuss which I have no clue of, but, again, why isn't this a two thirds vote but a simple majority vote?

Because that's what the 'Yes' campaign pushed for.

What's a bigger joke is that only current residents of Scotland can vote.

Any Scottish person living in England, Wales or NI cannot - that's just ridiculous - this is severely limiting the 'rational' thought processes.

The term 'Freedom' is also being bandied about - what exactly is Scotland not free to do, that other parts of the UK are?

- free healthcare - check

- free schooling - check

- free movement - check

- religious freedom - check

The list is endless ..

It's more of an argument of proportional representation that has been blown out of all context and is now being promoted as 'freedom' under a nationalist movement - claiming oppression.

I seriously believe Scots that vote yes and achieve independence will all expect to be millionaires the next morning.

Very little will change for the average Scots person initially - the real gamble is for the generation after this, that's where the issues will become more prevalent.

The more I debate it in my own mind the angrier I become about the farcical way that 'solid facts' are missing from both the Yes and No camp

As I said many times - a real shame it has come to this... But within weeks we will see

[Fulham Broadway 16,923]

Potential 'constitutional meltdown' and Cameron to postpone general election if theres a Yes vote

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/03/calls-to-postpone-uk-general-election-scots-independence

[Ripamaru 8]

As an American (I shudder to lump myself in with that group but I was unfortunately born here) I will readily admit that I don't know how this would play out. It seems that there are questions about EU membership and currency. I am not sure how they could reject the union and expect to keep the currency seeing how it is the currency of the UK.

The impression I have been given during my lifetime is one of English dominance over both Scotland and NI. A dominance that has had bitter feelings in the past, some more recent than others. I am generally for independence for any peoples who have been colonized and I do (with my very limited knowledge) feel that Scotland and NI are occupied territory more than equal partners in the union.

I cannot begin to imagine the personal feelings involved on either side. I am a student of 20th century history in particular and England/UK lost a massive empire during this span. I have long viewed the separation of Scotland and NI as the final step in this process that has been long overdue.

However this question belongs to the people. I am certainly not a part of this and have no stake in the whole thing other than how it generally affects global politics which I readily admit to having no clue how it would. From that perspective I do not want to see a weakened UK in international relations.

It would seem from an outsiders view that more tax revenue is spent in Scotland than is produced by Scotland for the UK. Correct me if I am mistaken please. If the future financial stability of the proposed nation rests on limited oil deposits it would seem foolish to jump ship from a pure economic standpoint. I have read in the past that the lions share of national revenue comes from England. again correct me if I am wrong. I wonder if this is the case why the opposition from an English point of view other than purely nationalistic reasons (pride).

My final thought here is that from my limited view it would seem that both the Scottish Yes support and the No push from the rest of the UK are both based on nationalism and pride. That many in Scotland don't want to accept that they benefit from England in particular and could be hurt by splitting. Also that many in the rest of the UK are clinging to what land remains in the empire and not accepting that it might benefit them to let Scotland go. It is a very odd situation to me that is unique among nationalist movements.

Keep in mind that living in the US makes it very difficult to obtain any real knowledge about the outside world or even what is happening within our our Govt seeing as how we have no real free press here. Most of what we get is only what is meant for our consumption. So forgive any display of ignorance you may see from me. I am one of the few that honestly seeks knowledge here but that doesn't mean I always get it. It is the sad state of affairs that I am stuck living under. In an Oligarchy that most here still believe is free and democratic. It is quite depressing personally, it is getting to the point of no return where I take my family and leave. Every day brings that closer to reality.

[We Hate Scouse 10,286]

I doubt NI will take a look at this and also want out. They are very patriotic towards the union and queen stimulated by the ill feelings towards Ireland.

Wales on the other hand is a possibility, although they don't have the sustainability that Scotland does.

[Fulham Broadway 16,923]

If there is a 'Yes' vote, some would say it is down to Iain Duncan Smith. The banks, NATO, and El Presidente USA will realise he’s flushed the Union down the crapper – and lost a priceless strategic asset – for the sake of his obnoxious bedroom tax.

Apperently that has stuck well and truly in a lot of Scots craw, like when they tried introducing the Poll tax a year early in Scotland. That went well.

Was is it worth it Smith? A cheap, sadistic little publicity stunt has so disgusted the majority of Scots that even a lot of the doubters are voting ‘Yes'

[Muzchap 8,966]

If there is a 'Yes' vote, some would say it is down to Iain Duncan Smith. The banks, NATO, and El Presidente USA will realise he’s flushed the Union down the crapper – and lost a priceless strategic asset – for the sake of his obnoxious bedroom tax.

Apperently that has stuck well and truly in a lot of Scots craw, like when they tried introducing the Poll tax a year early in Scotland. That went well.

Was is it worth it Smith? A cheap, sadistic little publicity stunt has so disgusted the majority of Scots that even a lot of the doubters are voting ‘Yes'

The Poll Tax would actually be beneficial to the economy right now - with the number of people all living in one house

The bedroom tax needs to be looked at rationally - not what the media purported.

Aim of bedroom tax - to relocate people who had spare rooms (unused) into more suitable social housing, freeing up valuable larger properties for people desperate for them.

However - the rub is, even though these are social houses and provided courtesy of hard working tax payers - people who have never contributed seem to believe these are their houses - not the Governemnts... Usual bollox ensues and a big deal is made over a pertintly sensible idea to free up one person living in a 3 bed house..

I know that's not what people want to hear - but that's the reality. If you needed social housing and had 3 kids and were cramped up in a 1 bedroom flat, whilst the Doris down the road had a 3/4 empty house - wouldn't you consider a swap to be beneficial to both parties?

As usual a combination of media twisting and basic fuck ups by the admin staff on the project sent it into dissarray - but I liked the concept and would agree execution was poor

[Fulham Broadway 16,923]

The Poll Tax would actually be beneficial to the economy right now - with the number of people all living in one house

The bedroom tax needs to be looked at rationally - not what the media purported.

Aim of bedroom tax - to relocate people who had spare rooms (unused) into more suitable social housing, freeing up valuable larger properties for people desperate for them.

However - the rub is, even though these are social houses and provided courtesy of hard working tax payers - people who have never contributed seem to believe these are their houses - not the Governemnts... Usual bollox ensues and a big deal is made over a pertintly sensible idea to free up one person living in a 3 bed house..

I know that's not what people want to hear - but that's the reality. If you needed social housing and had 3 kids and were cramped up in a 1 bedroom flat, whilst the Doris down the road had a 3/4 empty house - wouldn't you consider a swap to be beneficial to both parties?

As usual a combination of media twisting and basic fuck ups by the admin staff on the project sent it into dissarray - but I liked the concept and would agree execution was poor

All well and good muzchap, but the Scots ? All the polls show Do they not like it !

The tories thought they would try out the poll tax in Scotland first in 1989..........biiiiig mistake. The biggest record of non payment in the UK, the refusal to pay spread to England and ultimately brought down Thatcher. Again the bedroom tax is hated in Scotland generally, along with zero hours contracts, tuition fees etc, and generally being ruled by an Eton educated cabal. Many Working Class old Labour Scots see Nu Labour as not much better than the tories, and have abandoned their old voting habits for Mr Salmond.

My own view is that there will be a narrow No vote winning the day, but the tragedy being a resulting Scotland that is divided.

One thing is for sure the Govt are getting very jittery, with the leader of Scots Tories saying "Cameron will not win the next General Election". A last ditch desperate attempt to secure a No vote.

[The only place to be 11,313]

All well and good muzchap, but the Scots ? All the polls show Do they not like it !

The tories thought they would try out the poll tax in Scotland first in 1989..........biiiiig mistake. The biggest record of non payment in the UK, the refusal to pay spread to England and ultimately brought down Thatcher. Again the bedroom tax is hated in Scotland generally, along with zero hours contracts, tuition fees etc, and generally being ruled by an Eton educated cabal. Many Working Class old Labour Scots see Nu Labour as not much better than the tories, and have abandoned their old voting habits for Mr Salmond.

My own view is that there will be a narrow No vote winning the day, but the tragedy being a resulting Scotland that is divided.

One thing is for sure the Govt are getting very jittery, with the leader of Scots Tories saying "Cameron will not win the next General Election". A last ditch desperate attempt to secure a No vote.

The best thing is that this will give closure to the whole debate.

Whatever you think of Salmond he has stuck to his word and delivered the vote. Too often in modern society people lack the guts to back up what they say and bottle out of things. It's an admirable quality regardless of political bent, wouldn't you say Fulham Broadway?

[Fulham Broadway 16,923]

The best thing is that this will give closure to the whole debate.

Whatever you think of Salmond he has stuck to his word and delivered the vote. Too often in modern society people lack the guts to back up what they say and bottle out of things. It's an admirable quality regardless of political bent, wouldn't you say Fulham Broadway?

He sticks to his guns and doesnt change his opinion every five minutes, nor pretend to be the hard man, so credit to him for that.

[The only place to be 11,313]

He sticks to his guns and doesnt change his opinion every five minutes, nor pretend to be the hard man, so credit to him for that.

Did you just delete a post I made regarding Salmond?

I basically said that there's nothing wrong with people reevaluating their positions as new evidence becomes available or the situation changes. I then followed it up with a grudging admiraton for Salmond (who I disagree with politically) by saying that no matter what you may think of his views, he had the balls to deliver on what he said.

Why was that post deleted and by whom?

[zolayes 14,489]

Did you just delete a post I made regarding Salmond?

I basically said that there's nothing wrong with people reevaluating their positions as new evidence becomes available or the situation changes. I then followed it up with a grudging admiraton for Salmond (who I disagree with politically) by saying that no matter what you may think of his views, he had the balls to deliver on what he said.

Why was that post deleted and by whom?

seems you have been given a warning for "cuntishness" from experience I think this means upsetting a mod

[The only place to be 11,313]

seems you have been given a warning for "cuntishness" from experience I think this means upsetting a mod

Apparently so, although posts of mine seem to be getting deleted without explanation so I'm not holding out for an explanation on the warning either....and I expect these posts to disappear into the ether in due course too.

[Fulham Broadway 16,923]

Keep on topic, we dont want warnings for thread derailing.