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🇪🇸 Cesc Fàbregas


Tomo
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Fabregas will be a great player for us. Neville can pick all the holes he likes in his performance, but in the overall picture of the season so far he has made something like 6 assists for us. And Costa is reaping the rewards from Cesc's play. Matic was the one to blame for the Swansea goal as he had his pocket picked by Routledge. After Mourinho's half time words of wisdom and a substitution we were a far more balanced side. We are only four games into the season and Mourinho is still fine tuning the team. And you can be sure that when he is finished, he will get he very best out of Fabregas. I think the guy is playing superbly for us and he has filled a major void left by Lampard. For me our defence is a worry, we cannot hope to outgun every team in the league and hope that if they score 3 we will score 4.(although we do look capable of this)

Just a note on Frank....."Frank Lampard is a ghost his former self" This was stated by one of the tabloids following his performance against Arsenal. It's a shame as he will only damage his reputation by turning out for City, as he is clearly a spent force in the Premiership.

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Pretty much everyone was pretty poor without the ball in the first half, to be fair. But yeah, he obviously won't complain, but he's far more used to playing in 4-3-3 when he doesn't have to worry so much about playing so close to defenders. Playing in the pivot limits his creativity a lot, IMO. He's essentially forced to do the job he isn't very good at(defending) and it limits his creativity and contribution in the final third. I mean, his decision-making in the final third and his final ball are one of the best out there, but he's wasted being played too deep at times. I said before the start of the season that Cesc would do much better as the most advanced midfielder in 4-3-3 and I haven't changed my opinion. In 4-3-3, he can control the play from the deep if needed, but he can also join the attack more often and link-up with Eden and Costa, as he did in the second half against Swansea.

thing is he and Oscar interchange a lot and he did the same when Ramires came against Swansea. The two more advanced in a midfield of three had been interchanging a lot regardless of who they are. I think with Ramires he should exchange less, not because Ramires can't provide anything higher - he seems to have found his assisting and passing boots recently - but simply because he can defend better than Cesc. When it's Oscar the partner, I think it could be 50/50 between them taking turns into the most advanced position.

I honestly think we've been spoiled with Cesc and Costa working so well so quickly that we unconsciously sort of started demanding them to excel on everything when it's already a big accomplishment to have worked offensively so well and quickly as they did. It's only natural to take some time to make all adjustments necessary to not only welcome the new players - especially key players such as Cesc and Costa - but also to change a system. We've completely changed our style from last season. The defense is hurting now and one of the big reasons is because the midfield isn't fully set and gelled yet. I don't think we'll be as solid defensively as we were last season because it's not possible for a player to be deep and high at the same time, contributing ahead and defensively all together, but I'm sure there'll be considerable improvement from the shaky, leaky presentations we've seen so far.

I think it's only fair to give Cesc more time to adapt as well as the team to learn how to execute everything they're supposed to flawlessly. We aren't in transition anymore - imo - but it doesn't mean we won't need time to adjust to all the changes. We need it and a few weeks and four matches isn't long enough. Cesc, Oscar, Ramires, Matic, defenders will certainly improve their understanding of the new tactics, the new teammates and of each other. A lot of a team working well defensively comes from good understanding, coverage and physical fitness. We had an immediate understanding between Cesc and Costa (or Cesc and the rest of the team when it comes to attack), but defensively it needs more time because many times the midfielders have their back to the defenders, or they're running all together to cover spaces and opponents, while they're always looking towards the attackers - who are trying to find spaces in the middle of the defense. It's sort of natural to see the team struggling to find their defensive feet after so many changes, while not being at their best physically - dealing among other things with how slow both our CBs are... we have weaknesses in our defense that were minimized last season by a very tight midfield that protected the CBs closely, restraining (more or less, depending on the opposition) our FBs to attack. When the pivot's first concern and goal is to protect the CBs and the FBs don't have free reign to support the attack, it's much easier to deal with slow CBs.

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But I do think Matic's poor start to the season can also be partly attributed to an increased workload because of a partner that is significantly weaker defensively than his previous partners (Luis, Ramires, Mikel, Lampard etc) and a CB duo that are too slow and do not push up to squeeze the opposition leaving Matic with too much ground to cover.

I don't think current 36yo Lamps is much of an improvement tbh. He had to regularly commit cynical fouls as he let players get by him.

But I completely agree with you on our CB duo. I think this is one of the main problems with implementing a more aggresive style of play. JT and Cahill are far more suitable for situations where we soak up pressure. In that respect they are excellent. However, what I feel our current style needs is someone like Kompany, an aggressive front-foot type defender who is pacey enough to deal with players who get behind them and also technically competent in building from the back. Defenders like that would allow us to play higher up the pitch. If Luiz had fewer brain farts he could have been that kind of guy.

Currently I think the short term solution would be the 433. It's kind of unrealistic to expect our current duo to change their natural game in such a short span of time. Maybe Zouma and Christensen could be developed that way though.

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thing is he and Oscar interchange a lot and he did the same when Ramires came against Swansea. The two more advanced in a midfield of three had been interchanging a lot regardless of who they are. I think with Ramires he should exchange less, not because Ramires can't provide anything higher - he seems to have found his assisting and passing boots recently - but simply because he can defend better than Cesc. When it's Oscar the partner, I think it could be 50/50 between them taking turns into the most advanced position.

I honestly think we've been spoiled with Cesc and Costa working so well so quickly that we unconsciously sort of started demanding them to excel on everything when it's already a big accomplishment to have worked offensively so well and quickly as they did. It's only natural to take some time to make all adjustments necessary to not only welcome the new players - especially key players such as Cesc and Costa - but also to change a system. We've completely changed our style from last season. The defense is hurting now and one of the big reasons is because the midfield isn't fully set and gelled yet. I don't think we'll be as solid defensively as we were last season because it's not possible for a player to be deep and high at the same time, contributing ahead and defensively all together, but I'm sure there'll be considerable improvement from the shaky, leaky presentations we've seen so far.

I think it's only fair to give Cesc more time to adapt as well as the team to learn how to execute everything they're supposed to flawlessly. We aren't in transition anymore - imo - but it doesn't mean we won't need time to adjust to all the changes. We need it and a few weeks and four matches isn't long enough. Cesc, Oscar, Ramires, Matic, defenders will certainly improve their understanding of the new tactics, the new teammates and of each other. A lot of a team working well defensively comes from good understanding, coverage and physical fitness. We had an immediate understanding between Cesc and Costa (or Cesc and the rest of the team when it comes to attack), but defensively it needs more time because many times the midfielders have their back to the defenders, or they're running all together to cover spaces and opponents, while they're always looking towards the attackers - who are trying to find spaces in the middle of the defense. It's sort of natural to see the team struggling to find their defensive feet after so many changes, while not being at their best physically - dealing among other things with how slow both our CBs are... we have weaknesses in our defense that were minimized last season by a very tight midfield that protected the CBs closely, restraining (more or less, depending on the opposition) our FBs to attack. When the pivot's first concern and goal is to protect the CBs and the FBs don't have free reign to support the attack, it's much easier to deal with slow CBs.

Agreed. That's precisely why I was of the opinion we needed to buy a fast top CB this summer. Our defence was so good last season mostly because our defenders were protected by our midfield and attacking players, which hurt our attack a lot. You can't have it both ways: if our midfield is more attack-minded, they can't cover everything, so ideally we need fast CBs for this to work, especially since Matic and Cesc aren't fast. That's why I wanted Benatia. JT is clearly struggling.
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Way too early to pass that judgement. If you're going to judge on the opening 4 matches, then Matis is weak defensively as well.

I wouldn't agree that Matic has been weak defensively; I think Matic and Fabregas have been poor for different reasons and that the latter has had a negative impact on the former.

No idea why we need to pick Cesc out in the first 25 minutes against Swansea when Matic and Schurrle made more defensive mistakes.

It's been more than 25 minutes. Matic's mistakes are because of two reasons: he presses relentlessly expecting his teammates to do the same but 1) the CBs don't push up and 2) Fabregas is weak defensively.

Matic and Fabregas both need Ramires...even against the likes of Swansea at home in my honest opinion.

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I wouldn't agree that Matic has been weak defensively; I think Matic and Fabregas have been poor for different reasons and that the latter has had a negative impact on the former.

Why not the other way around? In terms of individual mistakes, Matic has made more defensive mistakes than Fabregas.

It's been more than 25 minutes. Matic's mistakes are because of two reasons: he presses relentlessly expecting his teammates to do the same but 1) the CBs don't push up and 2) Fabregas is weak defensively.

Completely disagree. Matic has made quite a lot of individual mistakes in his pressing that were just really poor judgement on his part and have absolutely nothing to do with anyone he's playing with. Check my analysis of the first two goals we conceded against Everton: http://forum.talkchelsea.net/topic/18782-analyzing-the-3-goals-conceded-at-goodison/

On Saturday again, in the first 25 minutes, on two occasions he made very weird pressing decisions very similar to his mistake in Everton's second goal. I'm not trying to single Matic out as others made a lot of mistakes in pressing as well, I'm just saying that mistakes like that have absolutely nothing to do with who you're playing along side, it's just poor judgement.

Matic and Fabregas both need Ramires...even against the likes of Swansea at home in my honest opinion.

Certainly didn't work against Everton. Unless you mean they need both Ramires and Oscar next to them like against Swansea. In which case, I'd say that I don't think that would work against any side that doesn't insist on playing from the back like Swansea, or in any game that we need proper width in attack in.

Way too early to come to any such conclusions. The new roles for the central midfielders still need some work to build chemistry and a lot of practice before we scrap them off as a failure, imo.

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.... but he should learn how to do with it, because that's how we play now and he has the quality to deal with it, he just needs to hit the zone again.

Thing is I don't think Matic has the quality to deal with it on his own, hence the need for Ramires. We got the equaliser before half-time but Mourinho still brought Ramires on and the second half was INFINITELY better than the first.

You're right, Matic's passing was off but then it was off quite a bit last season as well and people didn't criticise him then. He plays risky passes, far more than most DMs, and I don't see that changing any time soon. His biggest problem right now is that he's being asked to cover waaaaaay too much ground, not an 85% pass rate.

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I'm not emotionally involved on Fabregas. I'm just... it's just... it's because... when he takes the ball... and he looks up... and he's perf... and he's amazing... and he's so smart... and his vision is unmatchable... and he's so damn cute now that wears blue... and he's so hungry to win... and he seems to fit so well in the team... it's just... I'm in love, okay?

:blush: There's a difference between emotionally involved and being completely, blindly, irrevocably in love with a player, right? Right?

Speaking seriously though... I didn't watch MNF - although I would have loved to, just forgot it was on so early, as I live watched MOTD Saturday and plan to continue to do so, so I can't say what Neville meant... What I can do say is that Cesc isn't the one responsible for us being dominated by Swansea's midfield. Matic had a mare in the first minutes, misplacing passes, being sloppy in some tackles and easily bypassed. Schurrle also misplaced a lot of passes, we didn't hold the ball well enough, we didn't press well, we couldn't set up the tempo. Oscar wasn't as effective tackling (IIRC he didn't have one single tackle during the match - or at least during the first half). Azpilicueta was caught a couple of times... so if someone wants to analyze what went wrong with our midfield in the first 30 minutes, they have to look at what the whole team did wrong. Schurrle, Matic, Cesc, Oscar, Azpilicueta and even Iva exposed one another a few times, they seemed to have no chemistry, not to know what they were doing and one individual mistake from one of them, put the next in line in trouble. Matic - who's our thermometer in terms of solidness in the midfield - has been starting the matches quite slow. I don't remember Burnley anymore because that's too long ago for my memory, but he had a bad first half against Leicester, Everton and Swansea getting better in the second and as the matches went on. When the rock behind Cesc is soft, Cesc is going to suffer. Am I blaming Matic for Cesc's shortcomings? No, I'm not, I just think Matic - and not Cesc - is the rock in our midfield and had it been Ramires, Oscar, or even Mikel by Matic's side they would have suffered from Matic's mistakes and poor football early in all those matches. Then it's no wonder when Matic got better during the match, so did the midfield in general.

Thing is whoever is going to play Cesc's role - and it should be clear we don't have even the slightest close replacement for him, the same way we don't for Matic - will probably have better defensive instincts than him, but they also won't have nearly the same vision and quality in the attack. I welcome his liability because of how productive he is. Remember the Mata discussion? He's a clear improvement defensively to Mata and he's faster (although not much) and he's stronger too (and also far more annoying for the opponents to deal with), but it doesn't mean he doesn't come with a price. He does - but it's a price worth paying. He isn't as weak defensively or physically as Mata was and he can offer nearly the same in terms of vision. He's an improvement to Mata in a system/team that desperately needed someone creative and with good vision to make up for our #10(s) limitations, but who wouldn't compromise defensively as much. Cesc can tackle, he's more physical and virile than Mata. He's just no defensive genius. The style changed and the reason why we pursued Cesc and brought him here is because we needed a player of his quality - vision, creation, technical wise. He fit the bill for what we needed and that's the new Chelsea and the new Chelsea won't ever be as solid defensively as last season's because that's not what we aim anymore. We've changed our profile as a team and being a little bit more exposed comes as a consequence.

And to answer your latest post, Matic's mistakes - the majority of them - had nothing to do with someone else coming to tackle with him. His decision making has been poor, his passing has been poor and he hasn't been anywhere near the tough guy he was last season for some streaks of time during the matches. Maybe Cesc's presence makes it worse for him, but many of his mistakes were passing rather marking. He set opponents up with misplaced passes or bad positioning. I think he'll improve because of himself, but also because the rest of the team will too. I'm not saying Cesc's presence doesn't make his life more difficult, it does, but he should learn how to deal with it, because that's how we play now and he has the quality to deal with it, he just needs to hit the zone again.

Barbara how could you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought you loved me???????????????? Seriously though a great article and a class analysis :worship:

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Thing is I don't think Matic has the quality to deal with it on his own, hence the need for Ramires. We got the equaliser before half-time but Mourinho still brought Ramires on and the second half was INFINITELY better than the first.

You're right, Matic's passing was off but then it was off quite a bit last season as well and people didn't criticise him then. He plays risky passes, far more than most DMs, and I don't see that changing any time soon. His biggest problem right now is that he's being asked to cover waaaaaay too much ground, not an 85% pass rate.

oh I don't mean he needs to do it by himself and I'm a big defender of us using a 4-3-3 with Ramires... I said so after the match. I think our second half formation should be our default formation for all matches, with small adjustments coming for tougher opposition when Mourinho has a different plan.

btw many teams in the world deal with having only one holding midfield in their system... we should have to find a way and maybe the answer is getting faster CBs rather than trying to turn our midfield more defensive...

I think Matic isn't playing even 80% the level he was last season... maybe it's just an impression though.

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Why not the other way around? In terms of individual mistakes, Matic has made more defensive mistakes than Fabregas.

Completely disagree. Matic has made quite a lot of individual mistakes in his pressing that were just really poor judgement on his part and have absolutely nothing to do with anyone he's playing with. Check my analysis of the first two goals we conceded against Everton: http://forum.talkchelsea.net/topic/18782-analyzing-the-3-goals-conceded-at-goodison/

On Saturday again, in the first 25 minutes, on two occasions he very weird pressing decisions very similar to his mistake in Everton's second goal. I'm not trying to single Matic out as others made a lot of mistakes in pressing as well, I'm just saying that mistakes like that have absolutely nothing to do with who you're playing along side, it's just poor judgement.

That's the kind of player Matic is: he presses relentlessly and occasionally he willbe too ambitious and get caught out. But aren't the tactics supposed to be to press as a team? How can we criticise one of the players built for the style of play and who actually does what it is asked of him? Why is the space he vacates not filled? Why don't the defenders push up and squeeze the opposition?

Way too early to come to any such a conclusions. The new roles for the central midfielders still need some work to build chemistry and a lot of practice before we scrap them off as a failure, imo.

It's certainly not a failure because we're winning but I don't see some of these problems going away.

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Neville was talking more about Cesc' positioning rather than his physical capabilities. The longer he plays in the pivot the more he'll understand where to position himself. Although I kind of prefer him in a 4-3-3, he has the freedom to go forward and link up with Hazard and Costa but could also just as easily sit back and dictate the tempo knowing he has Ramires and Matic beside him.

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That's the kind of player Matic is: he presses relentlessly and occasionally he willbe too ambitious and get caught out. But aren't the tactics supposed to be to press as a team? How can we criticise one of the players built for the style of play and who actually does what it is asked of him? Why is the space he vacates not filled? Why don't the defenders push up and squeeze the opposition?

Simply because some of the mistakes he's done have absolutely nothing to do with all that. Again I'll use Everton's second goal as example because I have the images for that, but he's made that mistake type on a number of occasions already this season:

image.png

Choosing to make the run that Matic did in the image above rather than cover the area where Naismith (who he was originally tracking) is in and in which McGeady eventually runs into, has absolutely nothing to do with tactics or anyone. It's just a poor decision. If he has a "pressing instinct" then the run should have been towards the ball where he would have been able to fill the gap and stop the goal, not away from it.

I can forgive mistakes from being too aggressive in pressing, but more often so far this season, the mistakes from Matic has been that he has been too eager to cover and hence being too late to press. Again, I'm sounding too harsh on Matic, but that's only because we're analyzing his mistakes alone. On a lot of occasions his pressing has been excellent, but it's the mistakes we remember.

But I get what you are trying to say. We don't have the CBs to compliment our style of pressing. Neither JT nor Cahill are able to push up and cover any gaps that appear and play 1vs1 (Azpi for CB? :halo: ). Now THAT, for me, is an issue much more likely to persist in the future than pressing mistakes from Cesc and Matic.

It's certainly not a failure because we're winning but I don't see some of these problems going away.

I genuinely believe it is something that we can solve, or at least improve, on the training ground. I guess time will tell.

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So amusing . We have arguably the most creative player in the PL certainly the most creative we have

had for a very long time and people are nit picking over his defensive qualities.

Yeah. I doubt Jose failed to notice Cesc's strengths and weaknesses before he bought him. He clearly didn't buy him to be a defensive midfielder. Some people just need to accept that playing Cesc in the DM's position wouldn't transform him into one. He would defend to the best of his ability, but his main job is to add creativity from midfield to our side, which he's been doing excellently. Personally, I don't like Cesc being played in the pivot--I think he's wasted there and he'd be better in a more advanced, free role in 4-3-3--but if Jose keeps playing him there, then he's clearly satisfied with how he performs there.

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The pressing also has a bigger problem. The team bar the CBs defend in a proactive manner whereas the CBs don't. If a DM like Matic does go about pressing higher the CB should be aware and be willing to run forward to close the space left by the DM if he does get bypassed easily.

Both Gary and John only move forward when the striker drags them forward like against Gomis but they don't seem to want to be proactive in their defending. I don't think we can change this though because you can't leave JT as the lone guy trying to cover for Cahill and John isn't quick enough or agile enough to run forward and close space near the half-way line.

I think Jose knew this and that's why we were after Benatia, he's the best in the world at this imo along with Kompany. He reads the play in front of him very well and can intercept and stop the play by breaking past his CB partner and stopping it right in the midfield.

Unless we buy all new CBs this won't change, which is fine, it's not a big problem. Nothing switching to a 4-3-3 with an anchorman can't fix. It's only really a problem when the opposition are very very good at building from the back and our front 4 are ineffective at their pressing.

We don't have the CBs to compliment our style of pressing. Neither JT nor Cahill are able to push up and cover any gaps that appear and play 1vs1 (Azpi for CB? :halo: ).

Just call me the tactical hipster B)

:lol:

Seriously though, I don't imagine we'll be playing in the same manner against the likes of City. Even against Everton we made changes. Though those still look like they need a bit more work...

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Fabregas is playing the role of the deep-lying playmaker. He's not weak defensively for that role. His defensive stats are about on par with Modric's so far in this season - they both have 1 tackle in average per game and Modric has 0.4 more interceptions per game, but Fabregas has 0.3 clearances over Modric, so it evens out. The only thing Fabregas has struggled with is avoiding being dribbled. He has been dribbled 2.3 times per game, in that aspect he should improve.

And we didn't even find the correct balance or chemistry in the midfield. Those stats can only improve over time.

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Fabregas is playing the role of the deep-lying playmaker. He's not weak defensively for that role. His defensive stats are about on par with Modric's so far in this season - they both have 1 tackle in average per game and Modric has 0.4 more interceptions per game, but Fabregas has 0.3 clearances over Modric, so it evens out. The only thing Fabregas has struggled with is avoiding being dribbled. He has been dribbled 2.3 times per game, in that aspect he should improve.

And we didn't even find the correct balance or chemistry in the midfield. Those stats can only improve over time.

That's nothing. Compare him to Pirlo who is much less dynamic and weaker defensively, yet Juve can still afford to give him cover and freedom for what he offers in attack.

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