Nemanja Matic

[TheWiz 109]

53 minutes ago, Robguima said:

...  how come ALL of our recent success, not only takes place after his arrival at the club, but also includes his involvement in the starting X.

We disagree on many things obv, but I could not have formulated a better Question than this.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,890]

9 hours ago, Robguima said:

heh Mikel was one of the worst midfielders I've ever seen play for a top club. I could count in one hand players whom I thought should never be playing at that level and Mikel would certainly be in that list, so don't think we will agree much here. 

Anyway, he's gone and I don't have to watch him "play football" anymore - not that keen on watching the chinese league. So I can be happy about that, I guess.

There was a BBC article a couple of weeks back that called Gary Cahill a "cultured passer' based solely on his pass accuracy, which is a lot higher than David Luiz for example (and Terry as well). If you think, or write, that Gary is a better passer than David Luiz, IMO there is something wrong in your head.

IMO a high pass accuracy can be a really good thing or a very bad thing.

---

Matic switches play well, produces good long balls (occasionally), and makes good forward runs (more often). He's not a fantastic tackler like Kante, but he makes interceptions and does well in tight contested areas, with his power and height. He also has both goals and assists to him. This is a good midfielder in my book.

While I obviously don't agree with the wiz above that Matic is the best thing since sliced bread, nor that Zidane was the most overrated player ever - obviously that was Ronaldinho - he does make valid points as to how come ALL of our recent success, not only takes place after his arrival at the club, but also includes his involvement in the starting XI? 

Of course we can improve on him and if the opportunity presents itself we should go for it, but so many other players could be improved on that I think it is unfair to single Matic out.

I think you have, in part at least, answered the question you framed.

You do not have a high opinion of Mikel, yet he too featured in many successes. Brana featured throughout the 2015 campaign and won two trophies despite being widely regarded as a poor contributor.

Eleven people have to start every game no matter what, but there is no disguising the fact that Antonio tried hard to replace Nemanja last summer. I think he'll make another attempt this time around, and so he should. 

[robsblubot 3,502]

1 hour ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I think you have, in part at least, answered the question you framed.

You do not have a high opinion of Mikel, yet he too featured in many successes. Brana featured throughout the 2015 campaign and won two trophies despite being widely regarded as a poor contributor.

Eleven people have to start every game no matter what, but there is no disguising the fact that Antonio tried hard to replace Nemanja last summer. I think he'll make another attempt this time around, and so he should. 

I have to disagree with your point there, as Mikel played a much smaller part in our recent success. (Cl aside as it deserves an exception post - "an ode to Didier") He got very few minutes in the PL since Matic joined. The one time he got more minutes, while Matic struggled, we ended up 10th. The impact Matic made was quite obvious to be honest and I am shocked others don't see it. Brana was widely regarded as a good player outside of these forums...

No it's never a single thing... I try to look and consider a number of aspects: stats, winning (yes!), eyeballs, market value, starts and minutes by diff managers, tough away matches, etc.

Market value is also pretty interesting...for example, it proved that I was wrong about Oscar.

I would have absolutely no problem if we got someone better than Matic.  The same way that I thought Matic was a lot better than Mikel. I do think, however, that an upgrade on Matic will be slightly more expensive.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,890]

1 hour ago, Robguima said:

I have to disagree with your point there, as Mikel played a much smaller part in our recent success. (Cl aside as it deserves an exception post - "an ode to Didier") He got very few minutes in the PL since Matic joined. The one time he got more minutes, while Matic struggled, we ended up 10th. The impact Matic made was quite obvious to be honest and I am shocked others don't see it. Brana was widely regarded as a good player outside of these forums...

No it's never a single thing... I try to look and consider a number of aspects: stats, winning (yes!), eyeballs, market value, starts and minutes by diff managers, tough away matches, etc.

Market value is also pretty interesting...for example, it proved that I was wrong about Oscar.

I would have absolutely no problem if we got someone better than Matic.  The same way that I thought Matic was a lot better than Mikel. I do think, however, that an upgrade on Matic will be slightly more expensive.

I didn't say anything about Mikel's winning run being recent. Just that he was a player you consider to be poor, who nevertheless featured as trophies were won. The point being an answer to your observation about Nemanja being a part of winning sides. Just because a poor player's team wins does not prove him to be of quality. Look at how many major honours Nicky Butt & Phill Neville have between them!

Those who regarded Brana as playing well after January 2013 were, excluding a handful of games, badly wrong.

I really have no idea what you see in Nemanja. He collects some stats because he's there. Anyone on the pitch is going to collect stats, many of which are bunkum anyway. I see absolutely no 'added value' from him, neither in possession nor out of it. No contributions at all which I would not also expect scores of other players, to be able to match.

I say again, Antonio tried really hard to replace Nemanja last summer. Having been through a season where the shortcomings of our squad forced him to see first hand how the big man performs, I expect the boss will try harder still to fix this problem over the next three months. Priority number one this summer as far as I'm concerned.

[manpe 10,861]

2 hours ago, Robguima said:

The one time he got more minutes, while Matic struggled, we ended up 10th.

Are you seriously trying to pin the blame on Mikel for this? Don't you remember that until Matic was untouchable under Mourinho, we were 1 place above relegation zone. Hiddink came in, made Mikel regular and we climbed to 10th. We were all praising him for that decision at that time. Can't believe you are now blaming Mikel when in fact he came in to clean up the mess Matic left, the guy who for me was 2nd worst player after Ivanovic in that season.

[TheWiz 109]

2 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I really have no idea what you see in Nemanja.

 

 

Let's do some Comparisons here ... In order to shine a Light fore you ...

 

Matic Stats ... As DM with mainly Defensive Duties

1) Goals Scored: 1

2) Chances created: 27

3) Assists: 9

4) Passes Completed: 1602

5) Pass Accuracy: 88%

6) Forward Passes: 77%

7) Shot Accuracy: 54%

8) League Titles past 3 Years: 2

 

Kante Stats ... As DM with Offensive/Defensive Duties

1) Goals Scored: 1

2) Chances Created: 22

3) Assists: 1

4) Passes Completed: 1865

5) Pass Accuracy: 89%

6) Forward Passes: 72%

7) Shot Accuracy: 41%

8) League Titles past 3 Years: 2

 

Radja Nainggolan ... As CM/AM in a weaker League

1) Goals Scored: 11

2) Chances Created: 68

3) Assists: 5

4) Passes Completed: 1204

5) Pass Accuracy: 80%

6) Forward Passes: 73%

7) Shot Accuracy: 38%

8) League Titles past 3 Years: ..........

 

Timoue Bakayoko ... As DM with Duties I have no clue about ... in a weaker League

1) Goals Scored: 2

2) Chances Created: 15

3) Assists: 1

4) Passes Completed: 1158

5) Pass Accuracy: 87%

6) Forward Passes: 75%

7) Shot Accuracy: 47%

8) League Titles past 3 Years: 1

 

Like, what was the exact Reason, some Forum Members want to Replace Matic with Nainggolan ore Bakayoko?

What exactly do they offer, that Matic cannot bring to the Table .. Even if he is underperforming by his Standards?

Not even the EPL Player of the Year has performed better than Matic Statistically.

 

I really hope Conte makes no Mistake here.

 

 

 

 

 

[akgw13 867]

3 minutes ago, TheWiz said:

Let's do some Comparisons here ...

 

Matic Stats ... As DM with mainly Defensive Duties

1) Goals Scored: 1

2) Chances created: 27

3) Assists: 9

4) Passes Completed: 1602

5) Pass Accuracy: 88%

6) Forward Passes: 77%

7) Shot Accuracy: 54%

8) League Titles past 3 Years: 2

 

Kante Stats ... As DM with Offensive/Defensive Duties

1) Goals Scored: 1

2) Chances Created: 22

3) Assists: 1

4) Passes Completed: 1865

5) Pass Accuracy: 89%

6) Forward Passes: 72%

7) Shot Accuracy: 41%

8) League Titles past 3 Years: 2

 

Radja Nainggolan ... As CM/AM in a weaker League

1) Goals Scored: 11

2) Chances Created: 68

3) Assists: 5

4) Passes Completed: 1204

5) Pass Accuracy: 80%

6) Forward Passes: 73%

7) Shot Accuracy: 38%

8) League Titles past 3 Years: ..........

 

Timoue Bakayoko ... As DM with Duties I have no clue about ... in a weaker League

1) Goals Scored: 2

2) Chances Created: 15

3) Assists: 1

4) Passes Completed: 1158

5) Pass Accuracy: 87%

6) Forward Passes: 75%

7) Shot Accuracy: 47%

8) League Titles past 3 Years: 1

 

Like, what was the exact Reason, some Forum Members want to Replace Matic with Nainggolan ore Bakayoko?

What exactly do they offer, that Matic cannot bring to the Table .. Even if he is underperforming by his Standards?

Not even the EPL Player of the Year has performed better than Matic Statistically.

 

I really hope Conte makes no Mistake here.

 

 

 

 

 

"Not even the EPL player of the year has performed better than Matic Statistically" 

I don't necessarily think your comparisons are fair because all 4 of the players are asked to play decidedly different roles for their teams who are all in different phases of development and have different goals in mind. 

I think Matic has been a key player for us and Conte obviously wants to bring in competition/replacement for him but your argument from a purely statistical outlook is a little short sighted i'd have to say. 

[TheWiz 109]

2 minutes ago, akgw13 said:

...  all 4 of the players are asked to play decidedly different roles for their teams ...

Well .. Thank You!

That's exactly what I am saying.

 

And I go one Step further with no hesitation ... I believe that Matic is a far better and more natural Playmaker than any other of the above mentioned Players.

[akgw13 867]

1 minute ago, TheWiz said:

Well .. Thank You!

That's exactly what I am saying.

Well we agree on that, my rough breakdown of what I think about the 4 players is

Kante is the best of the bunch statistics aside its not to be debated.

 

Radja is the most offensively minded of the rest and offers almost as good defensive protection

Matic is in his Prime and offers a solid skillset for the PL and understands his role.

Bakayoko is the youngest, most athletic and has the highest upside, i would argue he is also the best at dribbling out of pressure at the moment.

All 4 offer something different its just a matter of what Conte wants. That is why certain people want Matic replaced to offer our lineup something different.

 

I am in the camp of bringing in Competition in the form of Bakayoko/Radja not as a replacement. we need squad depth and strength, Pep can convince a ludicrous # of the best attackers in the world to play for 3/4 spots but we can't keep a CM without bringing in another?

[Viva La Hazard 17]

12 minutes ago, TheWiz said:

 

Let's do some Comparisons here ... In order to shine a Light fore you ...

 

Matic Stats ... As DM with mainly Defensive Duties

1) Goals Scored: 1

2) Chances created: 27

3) Assists: 9

4) Passes Completed: 1602

5) Pass Accuracy: 88%

6) Forward Passes: 77%

7) Shot Accuracy: 54%

8) League Titles past 3 Years: 2

 

Kante Stats ... As DM with Offensive/Defensive Duties

1) Goals Scored: 1

2) Chances Created: 22

3) Assists: 1

4) Passes Completed: 1865

5) Pass Accuracy: 89%

6) Forward Passes: 72%

7) Shot Accuracy: 41%

8) League Titles past 3 Years: 2

 

Radja Nainggolan ... As CM/AM in a weaker League

1) Goals Scored: 11

2) Chances Created: 68

3) Assists: 5

4) Passes Completed: 1204

5) Pass Accuracy: 80%

6) Forward Passes: 73%

7) Shot Accuracy: 38%

8) League Titles past 3 Years: ..........

 

Timoue Bakayoko ... As DM with Duties I have no clue about ... in a weaker League

1) Goals Scored: 2

2) Chances Created: 15

3) Assists: 1

4) Passes Completed: 1158

5) Pass Accuracy: 87%

6) Forward Passes: 75%

7) Shot Accuracy: 47%

8) League Titles past 3 Years: 1

 

Like, what was the exact Reason, some Forum Members want to Replace Matic with Nainggolan ore Bakayoko?

What exactly do they offer, that Matic cannot bring to the Table .. Even if he is underperforming by his Standards?

Not even the EPL Player of the Year has performed better than Matic Statistically.

 

I really hope Conte makes no Mistake here.

 

 

 

 

 

Naingollan offers a goal threat. Something we don't have from the middle of the park. You say Serie A is a weaker league but you forget it is one of the most defensively sound leagues around. 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,890]

1 hour ago, TheWiz said:

 

Let's do some Comparisons here ... In order to shine a Light fore you ...

 

Matic Stats ... As DM with mainly Defensive Duties

1) Goals Scored: 1

2) Chances created: 27

3) Assists: 9

4) Passes Completed: 1602

5) Pass Accuracy: 88%

6) Forward Passes: 77%

7) Shot Accuracy: 54%

8) League Titles past 3 Years: 2

 

Kante Stats ... As DM with Offensive/Defensive Duties

1) Goals Scored: 1

2) Chances Created: 22

3) Assists: 1

4) Passes Completed: 1865

5) Pass Accuracy: 89%

6) Forward Passes: 72%

7) Shot Accuracy: 41%

8) League Titles past 3 Years: 2

 

Radja Nainggolan ... As CM/AM in a weaker League

1) Goals Scored: 11

2) Chances Created: 68

3) Assists: 5

4) Passes Completed: 1204

5) Pass Accuracy: 80%

6) Forward Passes: 73%

7) Shot Accuracy: 38%

8) League Titles past 3 Years: ..........

 

Timoue Bakayoko ... As DM with Duties I have no clue about ... in a weaker League

1) Goals Scored: 2

2) Chances Created: 15

3) Assists: 1

4) Passes Completed: 1158

5) Pass Accuracy: 87%

6) Forward Passes: 75%

7) Shot Accuracy: 47%

8) League Titles past 3 Years: 1

 

Like, what was the exact Reason, some Forum Members want to Replace Matic with Nainggolan ore Bakayoko?

What exactly do they offer, that Matic cannot bring to the Table .. Even if he is underperforming by his Standards?

Not even the EPL Player of the Year has performed better than Matic Statistically.

 

I really hope Conte makes no Mistake here.

 

 

 

 

 

Hello TW. You well?

[TheWiz 109]

4 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Hello TW. You well?

What?

[OhForAGreavsie 5,890]

Just now, TheWiz said:

What?

Sounds like you are. Glad to hear it.

[TheWiz 109]

Just now, OhForAGreavsie said:

Sounds like you are. Glad to hear it.

I can't follow really .. You think I'm another User?

[OhForAGreavsie 5,890]

No. There can be only one TW.

[TheWiz 109]

1 hour ago, akgw13 said:

 

1) Kante is the best of the bunch statistics aside its not to be debated.

 

2) Radja is the most offensively minded of the rest and offers almost as good defensive protection

 

3) Bakayoko is the youngest

1) Kante is the best ... What? DM or Footballer? I agree he's a better DM than Matic .. at least this Season ... and that he is more Athletic ... But Matic is a better Footballer in general .. And much more complete.

2) Exactly. But why is that? Because he is positioned more offensively than Matic ... Still I believe Matic is the better Playmaker.

3) There are younger Players than Bakayoko, I can guarantee you that.

[TheWiz 109]

2 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

No. There can be only one TW.

Yep .. I am TW if you like.

BTW .. Could you help me out and tell me what TW stands fore exactly. I forgot.

Theo Walcott?

[OhForAGreavsie 5,890]

1 minute ago, TheWiz said:

Yep .. I am TW if you like.

BTW .. Could you help me out and tell me what TW stands fore exactly. I forgot.

Theo Walcott?