The History Thread

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Well, we have a fair few "historians" - both professional and recreational - here on TalkChelsea, so I thought it would be prudent to have a topic where he can focus historical discussion on both present-day issues and anything we can say has been consigned to the looming void of the past, where we can attempt to recreate and manipulate historical facts into some sort of representative image of what may have occurred at any one time in a specific place.

It would therefore be poignant to begin an historical debate with the confounding question of what is history?

Can we, as historians, take great joy in the popular misrepresentations and misconceptions of the past, made every day by the misinformed, and particularly in correcting those assertions? Or do we, as pretenders ourselves, acknowledge the view that history is history, and that we can only guess at the past itself? Are we truly able to understand and recreate what the motives of the Christian Crusaders were, in 1095-6? Similarly, can we sympathise with the German populace, who were swept into a nebula of popular nationalism-cum-fascism in the 1930s? Can we honestly claim to say we can accurately portray Roman civilisation, and at the same time compare it with the barbarian hordes that sacked the Empire, who then founded the European motherland as we know it today?

What are your thoughts - what is HISTORY?!

[zolayes 14,489]

History is useful .... if you learn from it... If you don't it is your fault as the subject is both interesting and a warning.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

History is useful .... if you learn from it... If you don't it is your fault as the subject is both interesting and a warning.

Absolutely. There are many clichéd quotes that have been derived from George Santayana. My favourites:

• "History is a pack of lies about events that never happened told by people who weren't there".
• "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

[Atlas Lion 1,223]

His or her story

[zolayes 14,489]

Absolutely. There are many clichéd quotes that have been derived from George Santayana. My favourites:

• "History is a pack of lies about events that never happened told by people who weren't there".
• "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

I will write more about my love for History later when I have time to do the subject justice.

[Stingray 9,441]

Awesome topic!

I love to debate this topic

Finkelstein, Goldhagen , Hannah Arendt or one of my favorites Hillberg ... On the holocaust

Barbara Tuchmann - 14 th century

Historical source studies - eg. The historical Jezus

..... God. I love this :-)

[Spike 12,049]

If it didn't rain one day in 1815, a certain 100 day reign may have been much longer.

[Kojo 4,676]

In history they always tell a slightly different story as in the standards of people, or do TV shows tend to over do it?

Where people really so incredibly brutal back then? I believe they where mind. Standards are a lot higher nowadays, killing someone back then was almost nothing, like a natural day of life. Well I probably have to be a bit more specific here, but lets go back 1000 thousand odd years.

EDIT:

By the way for the historians here, are there any stories which are quite similar to Hotel Rwanda or Schindlers list in the past? Like besides those two, any stories where a city or settlement where enslaved for a long time, something along those lines. It's for a project.

[Rmpr 8,977]

In history they always tell a slightly different story as in the standards of people, or do TV shows tend to over do it?

Where people really so incredibly brutal back then? I believe they where mind. Standards are a lot higher nowadays, killing someone back then was almost nothing, like a natural day of life. Well I probably have to be a bit more specific here, but lets go back 1000 thousand odd years.

EDIT:

By the way for the historians here, are there any stories which are quite similar to Hotel Rwanda or Schindlers list in the past? Like besides those two, any stories where a city or settlement where enslaved for a long time, something along those lines. It's for a project.

Is where the new were?

[Kojo 4,676]

Is where the new were?

What?

[Rmpr 8,977]

What?

What what?

[Kojo 4,676]

What what?

And people wonder why I never be serious on this forum sometimes.

[Blue Armour 4,448]

History was written by the victors...

Its what fascinates me about the past, especially the classical era (Roman and before). We'll never know the full truth...Like the purpose of the great pyramids, the true birthplace and date of birth of civilzation etc...

[Rmpr 8,977]

And people wonder why I never be serious on this forum sometimes.

Just re-read your post dude, I bet you will understand!

Anyways, to answer the topic: I love history, but I still havent fully figures out what parts of it I believe and what parts I dont. Maybe that will come with time...

[manpe 10,861]

you said cum

[Kojo 4,676]

Just re-read your post dude, I bet you will understand!

Anyways, to answer the topic: I love history, but I still havent fully figures out what parts of it I believe and what parts I dont. Maybe that will come with time...

Wow well isn't that just fucking dandy

Thank you for fucking up the topic on it's very first page, congratulations.

[Rmpr 8,977]

Wow well isn't that just fucking dandy

Thank you for fucking up the topic on it's very first page, congratulations.

Wtf? Stop being such a cry baby and grow up!

What a pathetic human being...

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Wow, so many replies! My inner geek is nursing a semi-on! I'll be sure to head on here when I'm back from uni to discuss the subject with you all!

[zolayes 14,489]

HISTORY IS BUNK : How ironic that the author of that quote goes into History as the man who brought motoring into the lives of millions of people.

I have my own definition of history ,, History is everything from the past ,,however recent. Our memories form our view of the past both good and bad.

History in the wider sense is the collective memories of all of mankind ,, Some recorded in written form more recently on film or in data bases...some merely

passed on by word of mouth from generation to generation.

As one gets older so does one's own store of memories. I believe I am fortunate in the places I have lived ,the work I have done and things I have witnessed

and experienced.

I vividly remember seeing the newsreels of the Normandy landings , the excitement of D Day ,, The reaction seeing the atomic bombing of Hiroshima.

A cinema audience bursting into applause as it was shown.

Many of my early memories revolve around my love of sport...My first game of rugby ..the visit of the Moscow Dynamos ,,,yes I saw newsreels of their game with Chelsea.

1966 and THE WORLD CUP ,,,I hope you are able to celebrate your country's victory some day.. I have a personal reminder of my celebration ....my eldest son now

nearing 50.

I mentioned work ,,firstly I worked as a Chemist for the Atomic Energy Authority ..I worked at Sellafield (later renamed Windscale then renamed Sellafield)

It produced Plutonium for the Nuclear weapons . I was there when the reactor went critical . Next door was the worlds first Atomic power station at Calder Hall/

Leaving there I went into teaching and was indeed blessed to spend 5 years in Kenya ,,close to where humans are said first to have evolved.

My memories from there are as vivid as yesterday even 40 years later.

I had been lucky in the places I had studied and worked in England , Cities and towns rich in History ,, Chester ,Canterbury Tunbridge Wells and Durham.

About 12 years ago we retired to France ,,

Alex mentioned the Crusade s , I lived in the Languedoc region of France , The region where the Cathars flourished .

I loved France with its Medieval towns the magnificent hill castles sadly many destroyed by the Crusaders,

I lived just 10 miles form the town of Beziers site of a terrible massacre of 20000 men women and children ,, both Cathar and Catholic on the orders of the Pope

I n Beziers I have stood in its magnificent Cathedral the n walked a few hundred yards to the small church of Mary Magdalene . It was here people were dragged

out from and butchered ,

I am aware that this has all been about me .. Well History in my opinion is just that . It is all about people and their experiences .

Good and bad ,, History is a record of our humanity and also our inhumanity.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

HISTORY IS BUNK : How ironic that the author of that quote goes into History as the man who brought motoring into the lives of millions of people.

I have my own definition of history ,, History is everything from the past ,,however recent. Our memories form our view of the past both good and bad.

History in the wider sense is the collective memories of all of mankind ,, Some recorded in written form more recently on film or in data bases...some merely

passed on by word of mouth from generation to generation.

As one gets older so does one's own store of memories. I believe I am fortunate in the places I have lived ,the work I have done and things I have witnessed

and experienced.

I vividly remember seeing the newsreels of the Normandy landings , the excitement of D Day ,, The reaction seeing the atomic bombing of Hiroshima.

A cinema audience bursting into applause as it was shown.

Many of my early memories revolve around my love of sport...My first game of rugby ..the visit of the Moscow Dynamos ,,,yes I saw newsreels of their game with Chelsea.

1966 and THE WORLD CUP ,,,I hope you are able to celebrate your country's victory some day.. I have a personal reminder of my celebration ....my eldest son now

nearing 50.

I mentioned work ,,firstly I worked as a Chemist for the Atomic Energy Authority ..I worked at Sellafield (later renamed Windscale then renamed Sellafield)

It produced Plutonium for the Nuclear weapons . I was there when the reactor went critical . Next door was the worlds first Atomic power station at Calder Hall/

Leaving there I went into teaching and was indeed blessed to spend 5 years in Kenya ,,close to where humans are said first to have evolved.

My memories from there are as vivid as yesterday even 40 years later.

I had been lucky in the places I had studied and worked in England , Cities and towns rich in History ,, Chester ,Canterbury Tunbridge Wells and Durham.

About 12 years ago we retired to France ,,

Alex mentioned the Crusade s , I lived in the Languedoc region of France , The region where the Cathars flourished .

I loved France with its Medieval towns the magnificent hill castles sadly many destroyed by the Crusaders,

I lived just 10 miles form the town of Beziers site of a terrible massacre of 20000 men women and children ,, both Cathar and Catholic on the orders of the Pope

I n Beziers I have stood in its magnificent Cathedral the n walked a few hundred yards to the small church of Mary Magdalene . It was here people were dragged

out from and butchered ,

I am aware that this has all been about me .. Well History in my opinion is just that . It is all about people and their experiences .

Good and bad ,, History is a record of our humanity and also our inhumanity.

That is just a fucking great post, sir.

Celebrate my country's victory? Glad there is a sport called cricket.