Closed Chelsea v Schalke

[Sheva. 5,373]

No.

Well I personally would like to see someone different start at CAM.

Mata looks weird compared to last season, and I don't know what Oscar is doing in attack last 3 games.

Willian's acceleration and vision could give us another dimension, but won't happen obviously.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Well I personally would like to see someone different start at CAM.

Mata looks weird compared to last season, and I don't know what Oscar is doing in attack last 3 games.

Willian's acceleration and vision could give us another dimension, but won't happen obviously.

What is it you don't know?

Against City and Schalke he linked together the midfield and attack superbly, defended stoutly and completed a high percentage of his passes whilst dictating the tempo.

Against Newcastle he was shoved on the right-wing.

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

Out of interest, what did you make of Lampard's performance in the match away to Schalke?

Need I remind you the way they just walked all over our midfield in the first half? There was acres of space in front of our back 4 and we were lucky not to concede.

I could give you a link for the full match if your memory needs freshening up.

[Sheva. 5,373]

What is it you don't know?

Against City and Schalke he linked together the midfield and attack superbly, defended stoutly and completed a high percentage of his passes whilst dictating the tempo.

Against Newcastle he was shoved on the right-wing.

I'll start with the last line, being on the wings doesn't mean he should contribute nothing for large spells. He played there almost all of last season, got used to it and scored regularly towards the end of the season.

The other 2 games, he defended well, but did nothing in attack, that you think he "linked superbly" is ridiculous considering how we only did well on like 2 counter situations in Germany. And against City, our best moments came from Torres forcing things.

[Korea 734]

I'll start with the last line, being on the wings doesn't mean he should contribute nothing for large spells. He played there almost all of last season, got used to it and scored regularly towards the end of the season.

The other 2 games, he defended well, but did nothing in attack, that you think he "linked superbly" is ridiculous considering how we only did well on like 2 counter situations in Germany. And against City, our best moments came from Torres forcing things.

He scored random headers.....

[The only place to be 11,313]

I'll start with the last line, being on the wings doesn't mean he should contribute nothing for large spells. He played there almost all of last season, got used to it and scored regularly towards the end of the season.

And he was often invisible there too because the ball doesn't come to him enough. He still put in a decent shift defensively but our entire passing and movement was a step down on what it has been this season.

Unfortunately what Oscar needed was Oscar in the central AM position to give him the ball.

The other 2 games, he defended well, but did nothing in attack, that you think he "linked superbly" is ridiculous considering how we only did well on like 2 counter situations in Germany. And against City, our best moments came from Torres forcing things.

Again I think you and I see the game differently. What Oscar is superb at is drawing together the players around him, keeping the ball moving, providing an out ball and just keeping things ticking over. Torres has the option to force things because Oscar is making runs for him, providing him with the ball.

Oscar makes players around him better - do you think it's a coincidence that every player around Mata had noticeably poorer stat lines yesterday? They all decided to have bad games on the same day? The gap between the attack and defence looked very similar to last seasons all of a sudden?

[Phil Driver 503]

.....................Cech.................

..... Ivan......JT...Cahill.....Cole.....

.........Essien.....Ramires....

......Schurrle...Mata....Willian..,,

......................Eto'o...........

a weds game we need to win but with half an eye on Saturday when we also have to win and Lampard,Hazard ,Oscar and Torres can return fresh . The back four should now pick itself during the crucial winter months ,only one tippy tappy player can be accomodated during this time when running and power is the name of the game .

[Jase 43,479]

Oscar makes players around him better - do you think it's a coincidence that every player around Mata had noticeably poorer stat lines yesterday? They all decided to have bad games on the same day? The gap between the attack and defence looked very similar to last seasons all of a sudden?

Every team is bound to have a very bad day at the office somewhere along the season. If this has happened in several games this season, then I would be inclined to agree with your point above. But it was only one game and to blame everything bad that happened yesterday on Mata's inclusion is just nonsense. The sample is just too small to say that playing Mata yesterday had a negative impact on the team. And with you going about from thread to thread, banging about this same old thing, you are only emphasizing Sheva's point in the other thread that you seem to have a public agenda going on against Mata.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Every team is bound to have a very bad day at the office somewhere along the season. If this has happened in several games this season, then I would be inclined to agree with your point above. But it was only one game and to blame everything bad that happened yesterday on Mata's inclusion is just nonsense.

Actually if it had happened in several games then my point wouldn't be as valid.

The fact that it happened when we reverted to last year's team selection of Hazard/Mata/Oscar and the performance was so similar right through the team makes me think that there might have been something beyond the cliche of a 'bad day at the office'.

I honestly hope the coaching team doesn't take such a lazy view of the match and actually looks to learn from it.

And with you going about from thread to thread, banging about this same old thing, you are only emphasizing Sheva's point in the other thread that you seem to have a public agenda going on against Mata.

Actually Sheva said that I used the word agenda about others....and he was mistaken, just like you appear to be now.

But if you want to dismiss my views as having a public agenda about a player I've cheered on for the last two seasons, voted for in two consecutive player of the season votes and said thank you to in person for his contribution to this club both on the pitch and off it then you're perfectly welcome to.

Maybe you have an agenda against me.

[Phil Driver 503]

The only place to be, on 03 Nov 2013 - 3:36 PM, said:

Oscar makes players around him better - do you think it's a coincidence that every player around Mata had noticeably poorer stat lines yesterday? They all decided to have bad games on the same day? The gap between the attack and defence looked very similar to last seasons all of a sudden?

Totally agree with this ,the team was never compact we did not attack or defend as a unit .

[Pacquiao 1,834]

Cech

Ivanovic - Cahill - Terry - Cole

Ramires - Mikel

Willian - Hazard - Schurrle

Torres

I reealy want to see Wilian - Hazard - Schurrle together with Torres up top! So much pace and directness!

[Sheva. 5,373]

And he was often invisible there too because the ball doesn't come to him enough. He still put in a decent shift defensively but our entire passing and movement was a step down on what it has been this season.

Unfortunately what Oscar needed was Oscar in the central AM position to give him the ball.

Again I think you and I see the game differently. What Oscar is superb at is drawing together the players around him, keeping the ball moving, providing an out ball and just keeping things ticking over. Torres has the option to force things because Oscar is making runs for him, providing him with the ball.

Oscar makes players around him better - do you think it's a coincidence that every player around Mata had noticeably poorer stat lines yesterday? They all decided to have bad games on the same day? The gap between the attack and defence looked very similar to last seasons all of a sudden?

Our movement and passing is better yet our attack is worse than under Rafa last season.

And again Mata didn't make Lampard and co have an awful game, but he's the easy target and Mourinho's scapegoat.

Mata had bad games towards the end of last season, but we still did well and Hazard and Lamps were scoring.

[Jase 43,479]

Actually if it had happened in several games then my point wouldn't be as valid.

The fact that it happened when we reverted to last year's team selection of Hazard/Mata/Oscar and the performance was so similar right through the team makes me think that there might have been something beyond the cliche of a 'bad day at the office'.

I honestly hope the coaching team doesn't take such a lazy view of the match and actually looks to learn from it.

If we have been playing the trio of Mata/Hazard/Oscar this season and been performing poorly, then you might well have a strong case of Mata affecting the team's performance especially in the current setup of what Mourinho wants. And we didn't always play badly with those 3 last season, did we? The team's setup under Benitez and Mourinho maybe different but really, like I said, to read so much into one bad game, one bad performance and pin all the blame on Mata is just . Better to just see what happens next time if those 3 play again...

Actually Sheva said that I used the word agenda about others....and he was mistaken, just like you appear to be now.

But if you want to dismiss my views as having a public agenda about a player I've cheered on for the last two seasons, voted for in two consecutive player of the season votes and said thank you to in person for his contribution to this club both on the pitch and off it then you're perfectly welcome to.

Maybe you have an agenda against me.

Not dismissing your views as having public agenda but don't think it helps one bit if you go around doing that. It will just make people think you do have a public agenda against Mata.

And , don't flatter yourself. Wouldn't waste my time having a public agenda against you at all.......

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

The only place to be, on 03 Nov 2013 - 3:36 PM, said:

Totally agree with this ,the team was never compact we did not attack or defend as a unit .

An excuse for all our players yesterday, including Frank - whom most now know I'm not in favour of him playing in the pivot - is that the pitch was really really heavy. As soon as I saw that I thought; not a good sign, we looked lethargic because our playing style mostly involves passing it on the floor unlike Newcastle who just lumped it.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Our movement and passing is better yet our attack is worse than under Rafa last season.

And again Mata didn't make Lampard and co have an awful game, but he's the easy target and Mourinho's scapegoat.

Mata had bad games towards the end of last season, but we still did well and Hazard and Lamps were scoring.

We're playing a different style than last season, so you make sacrifices in attack to be more solid defensively which is why Oscar has gotten the nod over Mata. Unfortunately I think we went back to 'Rafa-ball' yesterday.

I don't know why it's such a contentious point to suggest that the number 10 made other players play differently/worse. It's such an important position in our system that it will always have so many knock-on effects. But if you disagree, you disagree.

If we have been playing the trio of Mata/Hazard/Oscar this season and been performing poorly, then you might well have a strong case of Mata affecting the team's performance especially in the current setup of what Mourinho wants. And we didn't always play badly with those 3 last season, did we? The team's setup under Benitez and Mourinho maybe different but really, like I said, to read so much into one bad game, one bad performance and pin all the blame on Mata is just . Better to just see what happens next time if those 3 play again...

You might think it's then that's fine. I personally wouldn't like to see them play together again because I saw enough of it last season, and yesterday was just more of the same. I much prefer what we've been doing this season.

Not dismissing your views as having public agenda but don't think it helps one bit if you go around doing that. It will just make people think you do have a public agenda against Mata.

And , don't flatter yourself. Wouldn't waste my time having a public agenda against you at all.......

If people are of some mindset that might make them think I have a public agenda against a player then that's their problem. Personally I think it's a fantastically silly idea considering my support of this club but that's something I'm not really up for explaining on a Sunday afternoon.

Plus I don't do public agendas with Chelsea supporters.

[Jase 43,479]

You might think it's then that's fine. I personally wouldn't like to see them play together again because I saw enough of it last season, and yesterday was just more of the same. I much prefer what we've been doing this season.

Don't think there's a problem with Mata and Oscar playing together. The issue is, and I believe some have mentioned about it, playing either Schurrle or Willian to offer us width and stretch the play on the other side. We have already seen, for instance against Steaua and Norwich, how this has worked just fine. The trio of Hazard, Oscar and Mata is generally fine but under Mourinho's setup where combination play just doesn't seem to exist, the narrowness suddenly becomes an issue, a bigger one than it probably is.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Don't think there's a problem with Mata and Oscar playing together. The issue is, and I believe some have mentioned about it, playing either Schurrle or Willian to offer us width and stretch the play on the other side. We have already seen, for instance against Steaua and Norwich, how this has worked just fine. The trio of Hazard, Oscar and Mata is generally fine but under Mourinho's setup where combination play just doesn't seem to exist, the narrowness suddenly becomes an issue, a bigger one than it probably is.

I disagree. I think that you need two of Hazard, Willian or Schurrle to provide that directness on the wings and Oscar in the middle. That doesn't mean I have an agenda against Mata as one person suggested in a rather silly way, it just means that I think Oscar is better at tying the team together. I think we defend better and I think we attack better with that setup.

I actually praised Mata a fucking lot last year, but I just think that with the change in our style this season that there are other options better suited to our team.

Norwich is a weird choice to support your argument. We were actually drawing until Mata was taken off and replaced with Willian, and Mata had a rather uneventful day whilst Oscar (in a more central role if I remember correctly) was MOTM.

[Sheva. 5,373]

I think we attack better with that setup.

Nothing we have done so far justifies this. We counter better yes, but like I have been saying, we struggle otherwise.