No.10 Role

[Mustafa 885]

Here's a thought Jose... Why not play them together ? Just like last season ! I understand that Mata doesnt fulfill the criteria that Jose wants but when we are playing against a team thats gonna sit back with 2 banks of 4 for most of the game... I dont see why we cant have the 3 amigos starting together ! This will benefit for Chelsea and Jose because 1. Mata needs fitness (and he's not gonna get that if he watching from the bench) 2. He'll find some sort of form if he plays against inferior sides 3. We wont play shite, slow, unattractive, rhythmless football

Its a no brainer really....

[Barbara 15,149]

Here's a thought Jose... Why not play them together ? Just like last season ! I understand that Mata doesnt fulfill the criteria that Jose wants but when we are playing against a team thats gonna sit back with 2 banks of 4 for most of the game... I dont see why we cant have the 3 amigos starting together ! This will benefit for Chelsea and Jose because 1. Mata needs fitness (and he's not gonna get that if he watching from the bench) 2. He'll find some sort of form if he plays against inferior sides 3. We wont play shite, slow, unattractive, rhythmless football

Its a no brainer really....

he just said in one the interviews (better check the Mourinho thread) his plan is to play the two of them together (I assume as AM's, no pivot nonsense), but that he feels Mata isn't ready to start the matches. So I think his plan is to keep Mazacar, but he won't play them until Mata is fit - which should apply to Hazard too btw as Eden has been below par - as much or even more so than Mata and that is while playing at all possible minutes except today's last five. I support Mata being benched and proving his value, but I can't understand why the same doesn't apply to Hazard - quite the opposite the more he sucks, the more he plays it seems.

[MHL 47 378]

Listening to Jose it's clear he rates Mata but wants more from him. Smacks very much of Joe Cole and that turned out OK until JC had the bad knee injury, he wasn't the same player after that.

There have been rumours that people in the club (back to last season) have felt that Mata went missing in the really big games, this might explain the stance being taken?

Oscar/Mata - Each has their own special set of abilities and both can be played together, therefore I believe it's not an 'either, or' scenario. Having watched Ramires play centrally and advanced, he doesn't have the guile and passing ability that Oscar and Mata possess. Yesterday's game being a prime example.

It is fairly clear that we will start most games with one striker, Oscar has probably been our best performer thus far this season and deserves his starting place. My own way of dealing with the scenario would be to make whatever exact point Jose is making with Mata and then go with a Ramires or Mikel plus Oscar as our central pairing in midfield, Hazard and De Bruyne in the wide areas, these are interchangeable with Willian and Schurlle and then have Mata in a role in between the midfield and forward. Oscar and Mata can also interchange positions during the course of any game.

[bluezola 7]

Oh okay I see.

I'm fact it looks like Mourinho is thinking just like that. I remember when we used to say if Oscar can play in double pivot?

Well I think that is what Mourinho will push for eventually.

Oscar would be like the xavi alonso playing in the mid helping out the dm but also adding creativity.

And mata our main 10.

I think Mourinho wants mata to be a bit more aggressive like Oscar so he can help us when we need to press in the high line.

[Zoro 151]

Here's a thought Jose... Why not play them together ? Just like last season ! I understand that Mata doesnt fulfill the criteria that Jose wants but when we are playing against a team thats gonna sit back with 2 banks of 4 for most of the game... I dont see why we cant have the 3 amigos starting together ! This will benefit for Chelsea and Jose because 1. Mata needs fitness (and he's not gonna get that if he watching from the bench) 2. He'll find some sort of form if he plays against inferior sides 3. We wont play shite, slow, unattractive, rhythmless football

Its a no brainer really....

You obviously slept through the matches where the 3 amigos played together. Offensively great, defensively shit.

[Shakez 755]

If the eventual goal is to play Mazacar. Did we buy Shürrle (18 million) and Willian (30 million) for squad depth? Not a good message to the other AM's if you ask me, or i guess José is bullshitting alot.

[bluezola 7]

Agree with your post

I wrote a post last season stating that I believe Oscar will eventually be 1 of 2 CM.

Must admit that I am worried by JM total mindset with the defensive side of our game. Maybe JM actually believes that we will not score enough goals to win games. That every game will be won by the odd goal. It seems that Mata has been cited as being the cause to goals being conceded. Mata scored more goals last season than either Hazard or Oscar but doesn't play. Created more than Hazard or Oscar still doesn't play. Mata work rate has never been questioned before so why now? Mata would walk into any side in the Premiership right now except ours for dubious reasons. By the way has anyone noticed that since the Con Fed Cup our Spanish players have bearly had a kick. Why?

Lets not forget that Romelu was shipped out on loan quick enough.

Something isn't right between the Spanish players and JM. Get the feeling this is an overspill from JM stint at RM and the Spanish press.

[meetdoscar 335]

out of 6 players for the am position, 4 are 22 and below oscar, hazard, kdb, schurlle, the rest are 25 willian and mata. so even if willian and mata both play atleast one of the "youth" will be playing. that argument itself is invalid. these are players who are proven at different levels. each of them has already played a part in their NT, in their clubs' success all over europe. even kdb played for genk in CL before coming to chelsea, hazard at lille, mata at valencia, schurlle with leverkusen. "youth" argument would be most apt if some1 like mvg, ake make thru to the team and are played.

oscar is already a proven player as is mata and even more complete than mata. mou is not choosing oscar to develop him and all that jazz, he is choosing oscar cos he wants a team with defensive organization, discipline, workrate as well with their creativity.

I understand how you can say oscar hazard kdb schurrle are experienced but comparing them to willian, lampard, mata, eto,o, torres e.t.c. they are not that experienced exactly why mourinho calls them his kids. One always have to play as you said but the last match three played(hazard,oscar,schurrle) and the match before three also played(hazard,oscar,vanginkel)

That's what you say but mourinho actually said differently even before the basel game he said he will offer the chance to some players to have experience at this level, for me that meant the younger players like vanginkel and co. who have less experience comparatively and Ba who is new to champions league. He is giving younger players who perform well or better a chance, what he does is on merit probably in training and on the pitch. For example Oscar and or schurrle would be benched if they weren't playing better than a more experienced mata or willian at the moment, same way vanginkel and essien is benched because they are not better at the moment than lamps, ramires or mikel and if they will surely be playing more regularly.

[The only place to be 11,313]

It's clear that whilst Mata might be the better attacking number 10, Jose thinks he can build the better TEAM with Oscar in that position and I tend to agree. He always seems to link the play better, simply with his higher workrate allowing him to cover more ground than Mata. Mata HAS gone missing and not just in big matches. Look at the Villa game at the end of last season where the link between defence and attack was non-existent, and that was by no means a one-off.

Jose explained exactly why he is doing what he is doing. If people don't trust him then I'm not really sure what to tell them - he is the manager of Chelsea and he will get my full support. We're trying to build something new here and we're top of the table. There's a breed of Chelsea supporter who want instant success and don't want any of the pain that goes along with supporting a football club. It's probably best to ignore these guys until we're back where we were a few years ago and they are kept quiet with their plastic flags again.

[Styles 9,790]

It's clear that whilst Mata might be the better attacking number 10, Jose thinks he can build the better TEAM with Oscar in that position and I tend to agree. He always seems to link the play better, simply with his higher workrate allowing him to cover more ground than Mata. Mata HAS gone missing and not just in big matches. Look at the Villa game at the end of last season where the link between defence and attack was non-existent, and that was by no means a one-off.

Jose explained exactly why he is doing what he is doing. If people don't trust him then I'm not really sure what to tell them - he is the manager of Chelsea and he will get my full support. We're trying to build something new here and we're top of the table. There's a breed of Chelsea supporter who want instant success and don't want any of the pain that goes along with supporting a football club. It's probably best to ignore these guys until we're back where we were a few years ago and they are kept quiet with their plastic flags again.

The ones that annoy me the most are the ones who can't even understand how the games play out and what most opposition teams do against us.

Almost every team we play whether at home or away will defend deep with 11 men and try to make life as difficult as possible, yet we're supposed to just steamroller teams and win 4-0 every week. They don't care that we're playing against professional teams with players who earn millions, we're supposed to win easily like we do in pre-season and if we don't then the manager doesn't have a clue.

Every team we play against sees us a bonus game so they completely alter the way they play. That some people can't get their head around that is amazing.

[The only place to be 11,313]

The ones that annoy me the most are the ones who can't even understand how the games play out and what most opposition teams do against us.

Almost every team we play whether at home or away will defend deep with 11 men and try to make life as difficult as possible, yet we're supposed to just steamroller teams and win 4-0 every week. They don't care that we're playing against professional teams with players who earn millions, we're supposed to win easily like we do in pre-season and if we don't then the manager doesn't have a clue.

Every team we play against sees us a bonus game so they completely alter the way they play. That some people can't get their head around that is amazing.

The fact that we're less than 10 games into a new season, with a new style, new manager and new personnel should see people giving the club a bit more time, but football fans can live in the moment.

Jose could be here for years and hundreds of games, and people are panicking after matchday 7?

[Styles 9,790]

The fact that we're less than 10 games into a new season, with a new style, new manager and new personnel should see people giving the club a bit more time, but football fans can live in the moment.

Jose could be here for years and hundreds of games, and people are panicking after matchday 7?

Exactly. Even the Mata issue is showing that some people support individual players more than they do the club. You have people on here seriously suggesting that Mata should be exempt from defensive duties, yet they demand that and more from others.

It's a funny way to support a club but the fanboyism is rampant.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Exactly. Even the Mata issue is showing that some people support individual players more than they do the club. You have people on here seriously suggesting that Mata should be exempt from defensive duties, yet they demand that and more from others.

It's a funny way to support a club but the fanboyism is rampant.

Well that shirt printing is expensive.

Win a local derby, top of the league and Mikel scores....but Mata didn't play so I'm gonna bitch.

Some things I just don't understand.

[remains of the day 564]

Exactly. Even the Mata issue is showing that some people support individual players more than they do the club. You have people on here seriously suggesting that Mata should be exempt from defensive duties, yet they demand that and more from others.

It's a funny way to support a club but the fanboyism is rampant.

You can choose to see it as "fanboyism", I see it as showing loyalty and appreciation towards a player that has served us very well. Wasn't aware that, that was (as you say) "a funny way to support a club." But hey, my bad.

Also not too sure I understand what the point of this argument is. If the question is, is there a significant drop in creativity when Oscar plays in the no. 10 role as opposed to when Mata plays in no 10....I think the answer is clear. The game against Basel, Oscar made only 2 key passes, to put that into perspective, Lampard (who tends to receive a lot of unfair criticism on here) produced four key passes, basically double the number of Oscar's. I don't think there was a match this season that Oscar actually created the most chances in the game. Rather than debating who is more creative, I think the question should be, are the qualities that Oscar brings (and that Mata doesn't) enough to counterbalance the drop in creativity? What I'm seeing from Oscar right now are a lot of good individual performances from him that aren't translating to us winning games or performing better.

[The only place to be 11,313]

You can choose to see it as "fanboyism", I see it as showing loyalty and appreciation towards a player that has served us very well. Wasn't aware that, that was (as you say) "a funny way to support a club." But hey, my bad.

Also not too sure I understand what the point of this argument is. If the question is, is there a significant drop in creativity when Oscar plays in the no. 10 role as opposed to when Mata plays in no 10....I think the answer is clear. The game against Basel, Oscar made only 2 key passes, to put that into perspective, Lampard (who tends to receive a lot of unfair criticism on here) produced four key passes, basically double the number of Oscar's. I don't think there was a match this season that Oscar actually created the most chances in the game. Rather than debating who is more creative, I think the question should be, are the qualities that Oscar brings (and that Mata doesn't) enough to counterbalance the drop in creativity? What I'm seeing from Oscar right now are a lot of good individual performances from him that aren't translating to us winning games or performing better.

Against Basel Oscar scored one, hit the crossbar and put Hazard through clear on goal. Against a team who defended deep, that's enough isn't it?

Mata makes us attack better, but I think that right now Oscar can make us the better team. He's carried this team at times this season both in attack and defensively. Until he stops doing that, he's the number 10.

[Fernando 6,488]

I remember when the Belgians fan base where telling us that KDB will take Oscar spot and all that.

Now look how things have changed?

[Rmpr 8,977]

Until he stops doing that, he's the number 10.

Oscar is the number 11, idiot!

[The only place to be 11,313]

Oscar is the number 11, idiot!

He's the number one, number ten, with the number eleven and he looks twelve.