The Rotation

[Barbara 15,149]

Except it hasn't. 2 players for each position is way, way too much. Barcelona had 6 players start a game in the league at attacking midfield/striker. Real Madrid had 8. Bayern had 7. ManU had 7. City had 7.

Anyway, here are the avg stats for Bayern, Barcelona, Real Madrid, City, and ManU (top teams in top leagues with the best depth)

Average # of starts in league for teams'

#5 attacking player-15.4

#6 attacking player-11.4

#7 attacking player-8

#8 attacking player-1

The #7 attacking player on super-deep squads barely plays (starts about,once a month) but Chelsea are going to somehow work in 8 or 9 players regularly? Two or three Chelsea attackers are barely going to play. (And people need to stop with the Oscar or De Bruyne in the centre stuff unless it actually happens. Oscar has played about 60 games under 3 managers with Chelsea and about 59 of them he's been an attacking player. De Bruyne is a defensive liability and and only works as an attacking player).

if so, what's the problem? I fail to see it.

If the player is unhappy he'll leave - and then we'd have the amount you consider ideal to the team (I suppose). The best will play because Mourinho is quite fair and players under him play when they prove to be better than their teammates.

If the best play, it means the second level will play less. If they become unhappy because of it, they'll leave - on loan or transfer. Either way the best players continue here. I fail to see what's the problem with a player leaving the club. Look at the Marin situation.

The only place I see we're really crowded is in the AM - so we have Eden, Oscar, Mata and now also Willian, Kevin, and André. It's two for each position just fine. If among them let's say Oscar e Kevin play 8 matches as you suggested - is because Eden, Mata, Willian and André have played much better. Oscar would have no problem being benched - Kevin I don't know, but supposing they do have a problem. Well, if they want to leave they will and we'll have the other four who are surely the best players - reason why they played more. Players leaving a club when we have better players for the position doesn't sound like a problem to me.

Where is the problem? For me the problem is when a player doesn't produce what you expected him to produce (again Marin example), or is way too inconstant (Moses - great matches and horrible matches) or when a player is injured and we don't have alternatives to replace said player. Having too many options will never be a problem and the unhappy player will leave and Chelsea will continue to have quality players and if the club see fit, they'll replace or if not, they'll keep the ones that played 80% of the matches anyway. Minimal loss.

Also amount of starts is one thing, amount of matches played is something else. I'd love to see the # of matches those played because second half subs should count as well to make it a little bit more reliable. Players that are super subs and enter often in matches are normally happy with their condition, as among the many matches they play they also start a few...

edit: let me illustrate the whole matches played x matches started.

Last season Oscar is the second outfield player to have played more matches for us. He played 64, starting 43, coming as a sub in 21 = (64; 43/21). It doesn't change the fact he played 64 matches.

Our midfield was mainly Ramires (66; 56/10) - Lamps (54; 42/12) - Mata (64; 55/9) - Eden (66; 52/14), Oscar (64; 43/21)

The others players used in midfield:

Mikel (41; 34/7); Moses (43; 27/16); Marin (20; 7/13); Romeu (9; 7/2).

I'd say Mikel and Moses played quite enough, and Marin is decent - as he was injured and never really showed to fit.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

if so, what's the problem? I fail to see it.

If the player is unhappy he'll leave - and then we'd have the amount you consider ideal to the team (I suppose). The best will play because Mourinho is quite fair and players under him play when they prove to be better than their teammates.

If the best play, it means the second level will play less. If they become unhappy because of it, they'll leave - on loan or transfer. Either way the best players continue here. I fail to see what's the problem with a player leaving the club. Look at the Marin situation.

The only place I see we're really crowded is in the AM - so we have Eden, Oscar, Mata and now also Willian, Kevin, and André. It's two for each position just fine. If among them let's say Oscar e Kevin play 8 matches as you suggested - is because Eden, Mata, Willian and André have played much better. Oscar would have no problem being benched - Kevin I don't know, but supposing they do have a problem. Well, if they want to leave they will and we'll have the other four who are surely the best players - reason why they played more. Players leaving a club when we have better players for the position doesn't sound like a problem to me.

Where is the problem? For me the problem is when a player doesn't produce what you expected him to produce (again Marin example), or is way too inconstant (Moses - great matches and horrible matches) or when a player is injured and we don't have alternatives to replace said player. Having too many options will never be a problem and the unhappy player will leave and Chelsea will continue to have quality players and if the club see fit, they'll replace or if not, they'll keep the ones that played 80% of the matches anyway. Minimal loss.

Also amount of starts is one thing, amount of matches played is something else. I'd love to see the # of matches those played because second half subs should count as well to make it a little bit more reliable. Players that are super subs and enter often in matches are normally happy with their condition, as among the many matches they play they also start a few...

There are a few problems

1) Younger players, more likely to be benched, will have their development stalled or even derailed.

2) Unhappy players make for an unhappy locker room. If you have 4 or 5 players who aren't playing at all, it's an easy way to create factions in the dressing room. ("Why is he playing instead of my friend?" etc...). This is usually not a problem when winning, but when not, it can tear a team apart.

3) Not enough time to prove yourself. Some players take time to get going. Maybe a 3-5 game run to get in to a groove. Maybe they are a fit against certain teams or with certain players.With a rotation this large, there's no time for that.

4) Familiarity- Just as important for top teams as depth is familiarity. Players know where their teammates will likely be, what move they'll likely make, etc... If you're Mata and one game you're playing in the centre surrounded by Willian, Eto'o and Hazard and the next your're on the left with Oscar in the middle, Schurrle on the other side and Torres in the middle, these players make different decisions and have different movements and speeds. The familiarity just isn't there no matter how well you train. Rotation is incredibly important, but so is finding your best regular 12-15 players. That's why teams have a regular 15 or so outfield players and don't try to rotate 20 players.

5) Bad for football in general. I realize most people on a Chelsea board won't care about this, but as much as I love Chelsea, I also like football and I hate to see talented players wasting away. Kaka's signing ended up being awful for Real Madrid but even worse for football because one of the best players in the world was stuck on the bench. You want to see top teams have depth, they need it, but the amount of depth the rich teams have now is insane where players that would be starting for 15 teams in their league get into a a few games a year and it's just awful for the quality of football.

[Barbara 15,149]

There are a few problems

1) Younger players, more likely to be benched, will have their development stalled or even derailed.

2) Unhappy players make for an unhappy locker room. If you have 4 or 5 players who aren't playing at all, it's an easy way to create factions in the dressing room. ("Why is he playing instead of my friend?" etc...). This is usually not a problem when winning, but when not, it can tear a team apart.

3) Not enough time to prove yourself. Some players take time to get going. Maybe a 3-5 game run to get in to a groove. Maybe they are a fit against certain teams or with certain players.With a rotation this large, there's no time for that.

4) Familiarity- Just as important for top teams as depth is familiarity. Players know where their teammates will likely be, what move they'll likely make, etc... If you're Mata and one game you're playing in the centre surrounded by Willian, Eto'o and Hazard and the next your're on the left with Oscar in the middle, Schurrle on the other side and Torres in the middle, these players make different decisions and have different movements and speeds. The familiarity just isn't there no matter how well you train. Rotation is incredibly important, but so is finding your best regular 12-15 players. That's why teams have a regular 15 or so outfield players and don't try to rotate 20 players.

5) Bad for football in general. I realize most people on a Chelsea board won't care about this, but as much as I love Chelsea, I also like football and I hate to see talented players wasting away. Kaka's signing ended up being awful for Real Madrid but even worse for football because one of the best players in the world was stuck on the bench. You want to see top teams have depth, they need it, but the amount of depth the rich teams have now is insane where players that would be starting for 15 teams in their league get into a a few games a year and it's just awful for the quality of football.

1) well the young players can always be loaned - where they'll complete their development and come back if they or the club see fit

2) if they're this kind of professionals, the sooner they leave the better. Chelsea isn't here to have their friends play. The best play. End of story. A good professional understands that and either decides to work harder and fight for the position, or gets lazy and doesn't mind the bench, or leaves.

3) I do agree with this point. Again a loan is a simple and efficient solution to remedy that

4) They train together 5 days a week for 9 months, Mourinho's training sessions have many drills where players from the same zone execute the activity - starting players and bench players. He trains by drills, not mini-matches or reserves apart from titular. Actually most managers these days (in Europe) do it. There aren't reserves x titulars.

5) I don't care about football in general. I care about Chelsea FC (and Real Madrid and Internazionale). Also if they're unhappy, they'll leave and will improve football in general somewhere else. Horrible example with Kaká, but one you were unlucky as he addressed his situation just today. He said he lost the passion to play football and he said it wasn't RM fault or Mourinho's fault. He blamed himself and the injuries. Also he was already on a descending when he joined us - exactly because of injuries. Injuries took Kaká away from football, not RM or Mourinho. His words not mine.

Bottom line is, if the player doesn't play and is angry because of it and is destroying the environment or is just unhappy, they'll leave. If they weren't playing in the first place, it means they won't be missed much. If they're young, they'll have the chance to develop in their new club.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Ok, i get your point now. Its true, but i just have this bad feeling that one of hazard oscar or mata will get an injury(dont kill me yet) they've played so many games for 2 years now (look at messi getting injuries here and there) and i dont want us to regret not having better quality on the bench.

But i understand where you're coming from now

I knew one of our players would get injured, and it will make us know the importance of depth, now I hear oscar twisted his ankle... Oh God!!

[didierforever 7,349]

i dont understand what the problem is here. for once we have a big squad with atleast 2 players for each role and we NEED it. look at the number of matches we are going to be playing. we are not just going to be playing in 4 competitions but also will be trying to win each and every of those competitions. for that to happen you need fit players, healthy players.

i mean look at bayern munich. they have a squad exactly as big as ours.

last year they had -

strikers - gomez, mandzukic and pizzaro (ba,etoo and torres)

attacking midfielders - ribery, robben, shaqiri, muller, kroos (mazacar, kdb, willian, schurlle)

defensive midfielders - bastian, javi, luiz, tymoshchuk (lamps, essien, rambo, mvg, mikel)

defenders - lahm, dante, holger, rafinha, contento, jerome, alaba, buyten (jt, cahill, luiz, kalas, azpi, iva, cole, bert)

so its 2 midfielders more than bayern munich. now lets compare the ideal no. of games both team would be expecting to play

LEAGUE - 34 (38)

DOMESTIC - 6 (6 + 6 = 12) (this is considering that there will be no fa cup replays)

EUROPEAN - 13 (13)

TOTAL - 53 (63)

so we will be playing about 10 extra games (ATLEAST) than what munich does and you have to take into account the number of injuries simply shoots due to continous football. also exhaustion plays a big part , for eg - the bundesliga is shut down for almost a month, and at the same time the PL teams are playing 3 games in a week due to fa cup.

we need 22 outfield players to not just play but play to WIN. and at this moment that is what we have.

[Shane 2,275]

People need to get the fact that Oscar is key to Jose's system and is probably our most important player at the minute. A creative number 10 that will work tirelessly for the team. Everything good we did this season went through him, and that will be the way it continues.

Oscar is vital to our future, If he gets injured we'd miss him more then any other player, even with our wealth of options in his department.

Brazil haven't made him their number 10 for the world cup for nothing, and Jose clearly see's it too.

[didierforever 7,349]

Last season, Real Madrid regularly used 5 attacking players for the 3 attacking midfielder/striker roles with 2 other players getting semi-regular time. That's 7 players for 4 spots. Chelsea have 9 players for those 4 spots which means that 2 or 3 our attacking players are likely to rarely play.

last season madrid had

strikers - benzema (50), higuain (44), morata (15)

attacking mids - CR (55), ozil (52), callejon (41),di maria (52), kaka (26).

so that is 8 players for 4 positions. we have 9 for the same 4 position.

not much of a difference.

in mid we have 4 players (lamps, mvg, mikel, rambo) compared to madrid's 5 (modric, alonso, khedira, casemiro and illaramendi) right now.

essien is nothing but a stop gap who will be used in dead rubbers or injuries in the deep mid, center back and full back positions and that is proven by his absence from our CL squad this year.

[-Kaplan- 410]

people need to get over the idea that Oscar will play in the pivot

Seriously. A good amount of posters put him there in their line-ups when he hasn't even played there yet under Mourinho.

[Blue Armour 4,436]

There is a thin line between having depth and being overloaded with talented players, some of who will rarely play and Chelsea have crossed that line so who will be the players left out?

Last season, Real Madrid regularly used 5 attacking players for the 3 attacking midfielder/striker roles with 2 other players getting semi-regular time. That's 7 players for 4 spots. Chelsea have 9 players for those 4 spots which means that 2 or 3 our attacking players are likely to rarely play. Madrid used 3 regular players for the central midfield with a 4th occasionally playing. Chelsea have 5 players there. I think at defence, we have the right balance of depth with Luiz, Terry, Ivanovic, Cahill, and Azpilicueta covering 3 spots and Cole playing almost all the time. It will be interesting to see. Who would you leave out?

9 players, meaning 3 strikers and 6 attacking mids.

6 attacking mids for 3 positions is not a management problem. Especially when you consider 3 out of those 6 are less experienced in the PL, and also offer something tactically different from the established trio of Oscar, Hazard and Mata. Plus, you take into consider fitness problems (like the kind affecting Mata) and the sheer volume of games, everyone is bound to get a fair chance.

Now, for the 3 strikers in the 1 striking role...Its safe to say that its realistically between Torres and Eto'o for that one. Ba is a squad option for his abilities as a targetman, and is unlikely to see much game time. This shouldn't come as a surprise to most people.

And I won't give any names for who should be left out. You yourself have said before, it very much is a squad game for the entire season and we are likely to see all kinds of combinations for the starting 11 when games come thick and fast.

[Barbara 15,149]

People need to get the fact that Oscar is key to Jose's system and is probably our most important player at the minute. A creative number 10 that will work tirelessly for the team. Everything good we did this season went through him, and that will be the way it continues.

Oscar is vital to our future, If he gets injured we'd miss him more then any other player, even with our wealth of options in his department.

Brazil haven't made him their number 10 for the world cup for nothing, and Jose clearly see's it too.

my example using him and Kevin was completely random. I could have said Willian and Mata, or Eden and André. I just used the first two guys that came in my mind.

As for Mourinho's decision... I think we can only guess at this point, as it's been only 4 matches so far - Mata is unfit and now Oscar is injured and Mata is a great player - horrible work rate, but amazing creative player. I'd start both, but I wouldn't be surprised if José decides to play Juan over Oscar. If I had to guess I'd say Eden, Ramires and Oscar are the three outfield players Mourinho likes the most although he trusts Terry and Lamps a lot as well. But maybe even liking Oscar more than Mata, maybe we'll miss having Mata and his assists...

I don't think Oscar is better than Mata, Mata is the best out of the two, I think Oscar is better suited for the starting XI though. At the end of the day Mata may not even compete with Oscar if Mou sticks with his idea of playing Mata in the RW

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

people need to get over the idea that Oscar will play in the pivot

Seriously. A good amount of posters put him there in their line-ups when he hasn't even played there yet under Mourinho.

Honestly, I would not be surprised if he could do well also in pivot.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

Yeah I think it's too early to tell, but I can definitely see someone going.

I think, you're too early to see someone will going, sir.

Wait for Mata to perform at his level again. We're back with Mazacar again. KDB, Willian, Schurrle will mostly be used as a subs.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

my example using him and Kevin was completely random. I could have said Willian and Mata, or Eden and André. I just used the first two guys that came in my mind.

As for Mourinho's decision... I think we can only guess at this point, as it's been only 4 matches so far - Mata is unfit and now Oscar is injured and Mata is a great player - horrible work rate, but amazing creative player. I'd start both, but I wouldn't be surprised if José decides to play Juan over Mata. If I had to guess I'd say Eden, Ramires and Oscar are the three outfield players Mourinho likes the most although he trusts Terry and Lamps a lot as well. But maybe even liking Oscar more than Mata, maybe we'll miss having Mata and his assists...

I don't think Oscar is better than Mata, Mata is the best out of the two, I think Oscar is better suited for the starting XI though. At the end of the day Mata may not even compete with Oscar if Mou sticks with his idea of playing Mata in the RW

"if jose plays juan over mata"

[Stingray 9,441]

I knew one of our players would get injured, and it will make us know the importance of depth, now I hear oscar twisted his ankle... Oh God!!

Add Hazard to the list. Also the NT games are still to be played - xtra injuries can still come up. So, I for one am glad with the depth.

[Barbara 15,149]

"if jose plays juan over mata"

I meant Juan over Oscar

thanks for picking it