Chelsea Youth

[Tomo 21,751]

What? You hoped Mourinho would have gone for a 'dynasty', what does that fucking means?

Who said that creating a dynasty is playing inexperienced (and even doubtful) teenagers?

We have a lot of promising youngsters, but nothing concrete yet. We have no idea how the finishing products will look like. There is absolutely no reason why Mourinho (or anyone else) should bet their success (be that long term or not) on pure bets!

The development of a player takes time, no one will come out with 18yo and earn a starting place at a club with big aspirations. The risk is too high!

Some Chelsea fans are totally inexperienced with how these stuff works (we are new to it and England isnt known for knowing how to develop a player), so they simply believe (in their narrow minded vision) a player has to be given a chance in the first team if they show potential. Acting as if this was all a mathematics expression based on a linear growth. However, that couldnt be more wrong!

There are many nuances to it, both regarding the actual footballing part of it (skills, attributes, tactical awareness, etc) and the mental part of it (ego, dressing room ethics, etc). (I can elaborate more on that if you want to)

This is the problem I have with the people who think our youth academy is all flowers...

100% agree, Wenger and Roy Evans are the prime example's, writing off the present and planning for 2/3 years time doesn't work that much.

Look at when Arsenal sold Patrick Vieira and didn't replace him, yes it gave Fabregas a chance to play week in week out, but it also meant Arsenal went from finishing 2nd with 83 points (if they weren't up against a freak Chelsea team they would have challenged for the title till the end) to 4th with 64 and needing a Tottenham food poising to get Champions League football. Yes they got to the CL final, but that was more off a one man Thierry Henry crusade.

Wenger 'built for the future' and the players he pinned his hopes on either didn't make the grade in the end (Djorou, Bendtner, Eboue) or go so fed up with the long 'transition' they fucked off to actually win the trophies their talent's deserved (Fabregas, Nasri, Song) Van Persie wasted most of his career waiting for this great Arsenal team that never came. Can you imagine Hazard sticking around if we are still hiding behind transition when he is 26 while Real Madrid pushing hard for him? i can't either. One of the players we planned our future around, gone because he is fed up of waiting for the eggs to hatch, players have short career's after all.

That sounds a really bad comment on a fan point of view but it's not, when i started following we were a mid table team in the 90's when i was a little, little kid, but i knew that, accepted that and adjusted my expectation's accordingly and i will do that again if we ever end up back as a midtable team in my lifetime. I just really don't want to go through all this 'this team will be great in 2 or 3 years' crap, i use to mock Arsenal fans for that, and ultimately got proved right.

Ofcourse i want the youth players that are good enough to be trusted to some extent, but to be given a nailed on first team place at the age of 18-20? sorry but i cross the line there (unless that player was a complete freak of nature, which none of our youth player are).

[Stingray 9,441]

Ofcourse i want the youth players that are good enough to be trusted to some extent, but to be given a nailed on first team place at the age of 18-20? sorry but i cross the line there (unless that player was a complete freak of nature, which none of our youth player are).

I dont know if you are reacting to the strawman made of my argument, but nowhere did i say or read anything about 18 year olds with nailed on first team places, really.

[lionsden 4,689]

100% agree, Wenger and Roy Evans are the prime example's, writing off the present and planning for 2/3 years time doesn't work that much.

Look at when Arsenal sold Patrick Vieira and didn't replace him, yes it gave Fabregas a chance to play week in week out, but it also meant Arsenal went from finishing 2nd with 83 points (if they weren't up against a freak Chelsea team they would have challenged for the title till the end) to 4th with 64 and needing a Tottenham food poising to get Champions League football. Yes they got to the CL final, but that was more off a one man Thierry Henry crusade.

Wenger 'built for the future' and the players he pinned his hopes on either didn't make the grade in the end (Djorou, Bendtner, Eboue) or go so fed up with the long 'transition' they fucked off to actually win the trophies their talent's deserved (Fabregas, Nasri, Song) Van Persie wasted most of his career waiting for this great Arsenal team that never came. Can you imagine Hazard sticking around if we are still hiding behind transition when he is 26 while Real Madrid pushing hard for him? i can't either. One of the players we planned our future around, gone because he is fed up of waiting for the eggs to hatch, players have short career's after all.

That sounds a really bad comment on a fan point of view but it's not, when i started following we were a mid table team in the 90's when i was a little, little kid, but i knew that, accepted that and adjusted my expectation's accordingly and i will do that again if we ever end up back as a midtable team in my lifetime. I just really don't want to go through all this 'this team will be great in 2 or 3 years' crap, i use to mock Arsenal fans for that, and ultimately got proved right.

Ofcourse i want the youth players that are good enough to be trusted to some extent, but to be given a nailed on first team place at the age of 18-20? sorry but i cross the line there (unless that player was a complete freak of nature, which none of our youth player are).

Selective argument at best. How convenient of you to omit their inability to retain their best players as the major reason for their demise. Selling the likes of Henry, fabregas, RVP,Nasri,Song, Cole et al was the main factor rather than their focus on youth integration and since we haven't shown the tendency to sell our best players then how exactly are we likely to turn out like arsenal if we show more commitment to youth development and integration.so because we want to nurture Chalobah for e.g means that we would sell ramires?.

[The only place to be 11,313]

100% agree, Wenger and Roy Evans are the prime example's, writing off the present and planning for 2/3 years time doesn't work that much.

Sorry but I've corrected you on your use of Wenger as an example in these debates on youth before. The problem at Arsenal wasn't a reliance on use but A WOEFUL UNDERINVESTMENT IN THE FIRST TEAM.

Also no-one is saying that 18-20 year olds should have nailed-on spots but that they should be used in the squad rather than us wasting spots on Essien, Ba and Eto'o.

Selective argument at best. How convenient of you to omit their inability to retain their best players as the major reason for their demise. Selling the likes of Henry, fabregas, RVP,Nasri,Song, Cole et al was the main factor rather than their focus on youth integration and since we haven't shown the tendency to sell our best players then how exactly are we likely to turn out like arsenal if we show more commitment to youth development and integration.so because we want to nurture Chalobah for e.g means that we would sell ramires?.

Exactly. Arsenal actually got a few things rights, but failed to capitalise on their opportunities by investing. Right now they seem to have reached something of a middle ground with expensive signings like Ozil alongside young players developed in-house (Wilshere, Gibbs) and those acquired and trained up (Ramsay, Walcott).

[Korea 734]

Selective argument at best. How convenient of you to omit their inability to retain their best players as the major reason for their demise. Selling the likes of Henry, fabregas, RVP,Nasri,Song, Cole et al was the main factor rather than their focus on youth integration and since we haven't shown the tendency to sell our best players then how exactly are we likely to turn out like arsenal if we show more commitment to youth development and integration.so because we want to nurture Chalobah for e.g means that we would sell ramires?.

TBH, had Arsenal not sold them, a lot of the younger players would of never gotten as much gametime. But we all know Wenger puts more trust in young players and develops them better than most managers..

100% agree, Wenger and Roy Evans are the prime example's, writing off the present and planning for 2/3 years time doesn't work that much.

Look at when Arsenal sold Patrick Vieira and didn't replace him, yes it gave Fabregas a chance to play week in week out, but it also meant Arsenal went from finishing 2nd with 83 points (if they weren't up against a freak Chelsea team they would have challenged for the title till the end) to 4th with 64 and needing a Tottenham food poising to get Champions League football. Yes they got to the CL final, but that was more off a one man Thierry Henry crusade.

Wenger 'built for the future' and the players he pinned his hopes on either didn't make the grade in the end (Djorou, Bendtner, Eboue) or go so fed up with the long 'transition' they fucked off to actually win the trophies their talent's deserved (Fabregas, Nasri, Song) Van Persie wasted most of his career waiting for this great Arsenal team that never came. Can you imagine Hazard sticking around if we are still hiding behind transition when he is 26 while Real Madrid pushing hard for him? i can't either. One of the players we planned our future around, gone because he is fed up of waiting for the eggs to hatch, players have short career's after all.

That sounds a really bad comment on a fan point of view but it's not, when i started following we were a mid table team in the 90's when i was a little, little kid, but i knew that, accepted that and adjusted my expectation's accordingly and i will do that again if we ever end up back as a midtable team in my lifetime. I just really don't want to go through all this 'this team will be great in 2 or 3 years' crap, i use to mock Arsenal fans for that, and ultimately got proved right.

Ofcourse i want the youth players that are good enough to be trusted to some extent, but to be given a nailed on first team place at the age of 18-20? sorry but i cross the line there (unless that player was a complete freak of nature, which none of our youth player are).

Wenger knew deep inside he could never compete after the invincible team due to lack of funds and BOD support.

His primary goal was to stay top 4 in the league, play CL football and good football, and make profits on a yearly basis.

[Korea 734]

On a side note, I was really surprised that you guys thought Jose would actually use the youth products.

You guys should know what type of manager Jose is by now and the fact that his "win now" mentality is and always been the same.

[Tomo 21,751]

Selective argument at best. How convenient of you to omit their inability to retain their best players as the major reason for their demise. Selling the likes of Henry, fabregas, RVP,Nasri,Song, Cole et al was the main factor rather than their focus on youth integration and since we haven't shown the tendency to sell our best players then how exactly are we likely to turn out like arsenal if we show more commitment to youth development and integration.so because we want to nurture Chalobah for e.g means that we would sell ramires?.

RVP, Nasri, Song and Fabregas were all there in 2010/2011, i am sure that part of the reason they left was because their talents deserved better than sitting through a never ending transition (like i mentioned on my comment).

Sorry but I've corrected you on your use of Wenger as an example in these debates on youth before. The problem at Arsenal wasn't a reliance on use but A WOEFUL UNDERINVESTMENT IN THE FIRST TEAM.

Also no-one is saying that 18-20 year olds should have nailed-on spots but that they should be used in the squad rather than us wasting spots on Essien, Ba and Eto'o.

Yes you are right, but then again weren't you as good as campaigning in the summer against signing Cavani because of Lukaku? like now with Witsel/Chalobah? So in theory wouldn't that be under-investing? turning down the chance to sign two players in their prime on the off chance two youngsters would turn out to be as good? and if Arsenal did invest properly, then the Fabregas would probably have had to wait a few years before he was a nailed on starter.

[Rmpr 8,977]

Yes you are right, but then again weren't you as good as campaigning in the summer against signing Cavani because of Lukaku? like now with Witsel/Chalobah? So in theory wouldn't that be under-investing? turning down the chance to sign two players in their prime on the off chance two youngsters would turn out to be as good? and if Arsenal did invest properly, then the Fabregas would probably have had to wait a few years before he was a nailed on starter.

How do you have the courage to say that? Lukaku, Chalobah, Baker, Josh, Kalas, Blackman, etc, are all future Ballon D'or winners!!!

Fuck, I dont even know why do we buy so many players to be quite honest, I think we should sell them all and play the future best players of the galaxy...

[Tomo 21,751]

How do you have the courage to say that? Lukaku, Chalobah, Baker, Josh, Kalas, Blackman, etc, are all future Ballon D'or winners!!!

Fuck, I dont even know why do we buy so many players to be quite honest, I think we should sell them all and play the future best players of the galaxy...

Im still furious we signed Azpilicueta instead of promoting Billy Clifford, he was outstanding at Yeovil Town

[Rmpr 8,977]

Im still furious we signed Azpilicueta instead of promoting Billy Clifford, he was outstanding at Yeovil Town

How come we still play Cech and have Courtois at Atletico? Blackman deserves his starting position, we must sell both keepers and stick with a true Cobham product!

I blame it on the Brazilian glory-hunters that support our team nowadays. If it wasnt for them, Chelsea would be lighting the world on fire with Blackman and other 18-20yos...

[Tomo 21,751]

How come we still play Cech and have Courtois at Atletico? Blackman deserves his starting position, we must sell both keepers and stick with a true Cobham product!

I blame it on the Brazilian glory-hunters that support our team nowadays. If it wasnt for them, Chelsea would be lighting the world on fire with Blackman and other 18-20yos...

I still can't forgive the club for signing Didier Drogba when we had a perfectly good forward in Carlton Cole on our books

[Stingray 9,441]

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[Atlas Lion 1,223]

Mentality like that is the primary reason why this league has absolutely no identity and a loss tradition. Fuck me, modern football has horrifically taken it's course

[The only place to be 11,313]

Yes you are right, but then again weren't you as good as campaigning in the summer against signing Cavani because of Lukaku? like now with Witsel/Chalobah? So in theory wouldn't that be under-investing?

Do you use 'in theory' interchangeably with 'nothing at all like'?

It's like there's a few posters who struggle with simple points. I was happy with most of our spending and see the place for it in our future, but I also think that we should use the academy to promote squad players as well as a few key first-teamers. That doesn't mean I (or anyone else) think that we have 11 Ballon D'or winners coming up but that we have players who could have good careers here and improve our squad

Im still furious we signed Azpilicueta instead of promoting Billy Clifford, he was outstanding at Yeovil Town

Cesar is exactly the type of signing I like though. Cheap, young but now worth more than what we paid for him.

In short, value.

[Mufassir08 2,400]

When United's wingers were struggling this season,Moyes took a punt gave a chance to Januzaj and reaped its rewards.While we have an inconsistent Lampard,cripppled essien,Mikel who is in and out of the side and Ramires who we are fast running to the ground because he is our only reliable midfielder yet we cant give Ake some gametime who was promising last season.I am not saying Ake is the answer but is he really all that worse then the current Lampard and Essien?

[The only place to be 11,313]

And apparently the club haven't been in contact with Lukaku for two months??

I honestly can't believe that's true, but if it is then what does that say about our club's commitment to developing young players? The fact that a talented proven PL player felt that he wouldn't get a fair chance here is perhaps the biggest indictment of our 'youth system' yet.

[Stingray 9,441]

And apparently the club haven't been in contact with Lukaku for two months??

I honestly can't believe that's true, but if it is then what does that say about our club's commitment to developing young players? The fact that a talented proven PL player felt that he wouldn't get a fair chance here is perhaps the biggest indictment of our 'youth system' yet.

Indeed. We might need to work on our hatchery. It really isn't warming the eggs like it should.

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[The only place to be 11,313]

I've just realised that all the arguments about us not playing young players are becoming reasons not to play our senior stars.

Can't play Chalobah because he might make a cock-up that leads to a goal, or he simply doesn't have the experience to control a game in the pivot.

Essien makes a massive cock-up in 13 seconds against Southampton and Ramires blows 4 chances against Stoke and has a 74% pass completion rate.

Courtois still needs to prove himself able to deal with British crosses at places like Stoke.

Cech fails to deal with a simple cross away to Stoke.

Lukaku needs to improve his general play and passing outside the box.

Eto'o gives the ball away whilst we're in transition and Stoke score the winner on the break.

[Hamilton 2,120]

Indeed, what point has our youth academy if you not use your youth??

Creating good young players for other teams?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

And apparently the club haven't been in contact with Lukaku for two months??

I find that unlikely. We've just create a new position in the club just to keep an eye on the loan players and gave it Eddie Newton. And I even remember him saying that he has a team working with him on it.