Chelsea Youth

[Rmpr 8,977]

This was my initial desillusion a bit with Mou ... I hoped he went for the dynasty on the long term, but he seems to have opted for a hybrid (some already bought youngsters with crazy talent such as Hazard/Oscar, older players such as Eto'o for the succes here and now) to get sort of a long term thing and still get the succes now.

What? You hoped Mourinho would have gone for a 'dynasty', what does that fucking means?

Who said that creating a dynasty is playing inexperienced (and even doubtful) teenagers?

We have a lot of promising youngsters, but nothing concrete yet. We have no idea how the finishing products will look like. There is absolutely no reason why Mourinho (or anyone else) should bet their success (be that long term or not) on pure bets!

The development of a player takes time, no one will come out with 18yo and earn a starting place at a club with big aspirations. The risk is too high!

Some Chelsea fans are totally inexperienced with how these stuff works (we are new to it and England isnt known for knowing how to develop a player), so they simply believe (in their narrow minded vision) a player has to be given a chance in the first team if they show potential. Acting as if this was all a mathematics expression based on a linear growth. However, that couldnt be more wrong!

There are many nuances to it, both regarding the actual footballing part of it (skills, attributes, tactical awareness, etc) and the mental part of it (ego, dressing room ethics, etc). (I can elaborate more on that if you want to)

This is the problem I have with the people who think our youth academy is all flowers...

[The only place to be 11,313]

I wouldn't follow or practice the "throw money at the problem" or "throw enough shit on the wall until one sticks" policy that's for sure.And I would try to think outside the box and apply common sense, use club's resources more efficiently and fix the team's major weakness for one instead of spunking millions on players we don't actually NEED.

But what do i know since i'm not a football expert like Stuart pearce and Jamie redknapp.

Exactly. The thing I was hoping FFP would force us to be was a bit more artful with our use of resources. We have a fine academy yet we neglected young players for about 5 years and had an ageing squad. No-one is expecting 11 potential ballon d'or winners to come through but it's the development of the John O'Shea's, Jonny Evans, Darren Fletchers etc. that we should be getting at least.

No-one is saying we shouldn't buy players either. There should be a balance though and Mourinho had the chance to do that. He could've kept Chalobah and Lukaku around and not relied on Eto'o and Essien. In the league cup he could've played a few youngsters rather than a b-team. If he'd had wanted to he could've even replaced Cech with Courtois (although that's a stretch).

What we've seen is none of this. Worse, players who were on the fringes like Ake are nowhere to be seen.

It's a shame because there's something beautiful about seeing young players progress from the youth ranks to a spot in the first team but for some reason there's no will to make that happen.

[lionsden 4,689]

What? You hoped Mourinho would have gone for a 'dynasty', what does that fucking means?

Who said that creating a dynasty is playing unexperienced (and even doubtful) teenagers?

We have a lot of promissing youngsters, but nothing concrete yet. We have no idea how the finishing products will look like. There is absolutely no reason why Mourinho (or anyone else) should bet their success (be that long term or not) on pure bets!

The development of a player takes time, no one will come out with 18yo and earn a starting place at a club with big aspirations. The risk is too high!

Some Chelsea fans are totally unexperienced with how these stuff works (we are new to it and England isnt known for knowing how to develop a player), so they simply believe (in their narrow minded vision) a player has to be given a chance in the first team if they show potential. Acting as if this was all a mathematic expression based on a linear growth.

However, that couldnt be more wrong! There are many nuances to it, both regarding the actual footballing part of it (skills, attributes, tactical awerness, etc) and the mental part of it (ego, dressing room ethics, etc). (I can elaborate more on that if you want to)

This is the problem I have with the people who think our youth academy is all flowers...

Perhaps clubs that have had success in this area should have adopted our strategy of battering their most promising youngsters to submission with heavy loans and wait patiently in the hope that they would be "ready and good enough" when they reach their prime before blooding them into the team, instead. Wenger, Klopp, Guardiola et al missed a trick there. How dare Jupp Heynckes turn Alaba, a teenager who had barely reached puberty and unproven, into a first team regular before reaching his prime. Our policy on youth integration is clearly the best and the blue print for others to follow

[lionsden 4,689]

Exactly. The thing I was hoping FFP would force us to be was a bit more artful with our use of resources. We have a fine academy yet we neglected young players for about 5 years and had an ageing squad. No-one is expecting 11 potential ballon d'or winners to come through but it's the development of the John O'Shea's, Jonny Evans, Darren Fletchers etc. that we should be getting at least.

No-one is saying we shouldn't buy players either. There should be a balance though and Mourinho had the chance to do that. He could've kept Chalobah and Lukaku around and not relied on Eto'o and Essien. In the league cup he could've played a few youngsters rather than a b-team. If he'd had wanted to he could've even replaced Cech with Courtois (although that's a stretch).

What we've seen is none of this. Worse, players who were on the fringes like Ake are nowhere to be seen.

It's a shame because there's something beautiful about seeing young players progress from the youth ranks to a spot in the first team but for some reason there's no will to make that happen.

sadly that attitude of throwing money at the problem and lack of trust and faith in youth is entrenched deeply in the club's culture from top to bottom,from the board to the coaching staff to the fans. Can you imagine the outrage from fans if we announce that we won't be buying any central midfielder and striker in the near future as we are looking to put the faith in Ake, chalobah and Lukaku?.

It would be hilarious to read messages like ffs they aren't good enough and inexperienced, Roman buy Gundogan, Pogba, Cavani . . .buy everyone, anyone ffs anyone.

[Stingray 9,441]

This was my initial desillusion a bit with Mou ... I hoped he went for the dynasty on the long term, but he seems to have opted for a hybrid (some already bought youngsters with crazy talent such as Hazard/Oscar, older players such as Eto'o for the succes here and now) to get sort of a long term thing and still get the succes now.

What? You hoped Mourinho would have gone for a 'dynasty', what does that fucking means?

Who said that creating a dynasty is playing unexperienced (and even doubtful) teenagers?

It fucking means that sometimes it pays off to fucking go for a fucking policy wherein you don't necessarily want to fucking win the league straight away, but try to build something with consideration. All in due time in order to create a dynasty, a team that clicks, has identity and can fucking win the league year after year while it povides us with stability, enough stability to unbloster all those unexperienced and fucking doubtful youngsters you talk about.

At this moment we can't even play KDB Lukaku, ... While having to resort to old timers like Eto'o and buy extra am's to fill it all up. Great vision , also our play sure is sexy as fuck, innit?

Ps: chill on the fuck.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Rmpr 8,977]

It fucking means that sometimes it pays off to fucking go for a fucking policy wherein you don't necessarily want to fucking win the league straight away, but try to build something with consideration. All in due time in order to create a dynasty, a team that clicks, has identity and can fucking win the league year after year while it povides us with stability, enough stability to unbloster all those unexperienced and fucking doubtful youngsters you talk about.

At this moment we can't even play KDB Lukaku, ... While having to resort to old timers like Eto'o and buy extra am's to fill it all up. Great vision , also our play sure is sexy as fuck, innit?

Ps: chill on the fuck.

Not in the slightest!

Nobody in here knows the strategy Mourinho is taking, he has been here for only one transfer season. It is absolutely pathetic to say he isnt creating a 'dynasty' because he decided to loan a few promising players (as if a dynasty meant using young players)...

Jose is for the long term and he knows that. If he was worried with the short term results, he would have spent hundreds of millions on a bunch of players and released a whole other bunch. Did he do that? No! All he did was loan some players (he doesnt yet trust to lead our team) and relly on the dudes he was once victorious with (the old guard, so to speak). There is nothing wrong with that, even if it is not working!

A youth player must first spend sometime with the first team, then he goes back to the youth, then he comes back and get some more involvement with the team, then he goes on loan again if necessary and then he starts playing. That is how Barcelona, Ajax and Santos have done throughout all those decades (the three best developers in the world). You dont rush it!

I also want the same things you (and others) do, which is to have a balance between big signings and youth. But, just like the people who run the club, I have a different mentality on how we should approach and ultimately reach that balance.

Going slowly and taking things step by step is the best way to develop a player. You dont throw them into the trenches because the risk is too high...

[Stingray 9,441]

Not in the slightest!

Nobody in here knows the strategy Mourinho is taking, he has been here for only one transfer season. It is absolutely pathetic to say he isnt creating a 'dynasty' because he decided to loan a few promising players (as if a dynasty meant using young players)...

Jose is for the long term and he knows that. If he was worried with the short term results, he would have spent hundreds of millions on a bunch of players and released a whole other bunch. Did he do that? No! All he did was loan some players (he doesnt yet trust to lead our team) and relly on the dudes he was once victorious with (the old guard, so to speak). There is nothing wrong with that, even if it is not working!

A youth player must first spend sometime with the first team, then he goes back to the youth, then he comes back and get some more involvement with the team, then he goes on loan again if necessary and then he starts playing. That is how Barcelona, Ajax and Santos have done throughout all those decades (the three best developers in the world). You dont rush it!

I also want the same things you (and others) do, which is to have a balance between big signings and youth. But, just like the people who run the club, I have a different mentality on how we should approach and ultimately reach that balance.

Going slowly and taking things step by step is the best way to develop a player. You dont throw them into the trenches because the risk is too high...

Rmpr, really just chill, take a deep breath and reread what i said at first:

I hoped he went for the dynasty on the long term, but he seems to have opted for a hybrid (some already bought youngsters with crazy talent such as Hazard/Oscar, older players such as Eto'o for the succes here and now) to get sort of a long term thing and still get the succes now.

Seem to .... as in I get the impression. Also a hybrid as in betting on two horses (some youth and still wanting the succes already this year).

[Rmpr 8,977]

Rmpr, really just chill, take a deep breath and reread what i said at first:

Seem to .... as in I get the impression. Also a hybrid as in betting on two horses (some youth and still wanting the succes already this year).

I am chill, I have reread what you said and I would rewrite everything I said if I have to...

The overall point of my argument is that the club and Jose is doing the right moves, so people should stop criticizing them and acting like our youth players are our saving grace and that if they were here Chelsea would be winning all games by 5-0!

[Stingray 9,441]

acting like our youth players are our saving grace and that if they were here Chelsea would be winning all games by 5-0!

I said almost the exact contrary. Only, I believe we should have refrained from wanting to win it this year because it would pay off in the long run.

[zolayes 14,489]

Pogba is older and has benefitted massively from being entrusted with a spot in a midfield with quality players.

I know...I know a few scouts so I don't need you telling me stuff. But you stick to denigrating our players both young and old. I come here to talk to Chelsea supporters, so congrats on being the first person on my ignore list.

Enjoy your pint.

he was the first on mine as well...only see his stuff when it is quoted ...He NOT th Messiah ...just a very silly (naughty ) boy

[Tomo 21,751]

What? You hoped Mourinho would have gone for a 'dynasty', what does that fucking means?

Who said that creating a dynasty is playing inexperienced (and even doubtful) teenagers?

We have a lot of promising youngsters, but nothing concrete yet. We have no idea how the finishing products will look like. There is absolutely no reason why Mourinho (or anyone else) should bet their success (be that long term or not) on pure bets!

The development of a player takes time, no one will come out with 18yo and earn a starting place at a club with big aspirations. The risk is too high!

Some Chelsea fans are totally inexperienced with how these stuff works (we are new to it and England isnt known for knowing how to develop a player), so they simply believe (in their narrow minded vision) a player has to be given a chance in the first team if they show potential. Acting as if this was all a mathematics expression based on a linear growth. However, that couldnt be more wrong!

There are many nuances to it, both regarding the actual footballing part of it (skills, attributes, tactical awareness, etc) and the mental part of it (ego, dressing room ethics, etc). (I can elaborate more on that if you want to)

This is the problem I have with the people who think our youth academy is all flowers...

100% agree, Wenger and Roy Evans are the prime example's, writing off the present and planning for 2/3 years time doesn't work that much.

Look at when Arsenal sold Patrick Vieira and didn't replace him, yes it gave Fabregas a chance to play week in week out, but it also meant Arsenal went from finishing 2nd with 83 points (if they weren't up against a freak Chelsea team they would have challenged for the title till the end) to 4th with 64 and needing a Tottenham food poising to get Champions League football. Yes they got to the CL final, but that was more off a one man Thierry Henry crusade.

Wenger 'built for the future' and the players he pinned his hopes on either didn't make the grade in the end (Djorou, Bendtner, Eboue) or go so fed up with the long 'transition' they fucked off to actually win the trophies their talent's deserved (Fabregas, Nasri, Song) Van Persie wasted most of his career waiting for this great Arsenal team that never came. Can you imagine Hazard sticking around if we are still hiding behind transition when he is 26 while Real Madrid pushing hard for him? i can't either. One of the players we planned our future around, gone because he is fed up of waiting for the eggs to hatch, players have short career's after all.

That sounds a really bad comment on a fan point of view but it's not, when i started following we were a mid table team in the 90's when i was a little, little kid, but i knew that, accepted that and adjusted my expectation's accordingly and i will do that again if we ever end up back as a midtable team in my lifetime. I just really don't want to go through all this 'this team will be great in 2 or 3 years' crap, i use to mock Arsenal fans for that, and ultimately got proved right.

Ofcourse i want the youth players that are good enough to be trusted to some extent, but to be given a nailed on first team place at the age of 18-20? sorry but i cross the line there (unless that player was a complete freak of nature, which none of our youth player are).

[Stingray 9,441]

Ofcourse i want the youth players that are good enough to be trusted to some extent, but to be given a nailed on first team place at the age of 18-20? sorry but i cross the line there (unless that player was a complete freak of nature, which none of our youth player are).

I dont know if you are reacting to the strawman made of my argument, but nowhere did i say or read anything about 18 year olds with nailed on first team places, really.

[lionsden 4,689]

100% agree, Wenger and Roy Evans are the prime example's, writing off the present and planning for 2/3 years time doesn't work that much.

Look at when Arsenal sold Patrick Vieira and didn't replace him, yes it gave Fabregas a chance to play week in week out, but it also meant Arsenal went from finishing 2nd with 83 points (if they weren't up against a freak Chelsea team they would have challenged for the title till the end) to 4th with 64 and needing a Tottenham food poising to get Champions League football. Yes they got to the CL final, but that was more off a one man Thierry Henry crusade.

Wenger 'built for the future' and the players he pinned his hopes on either didn't make the grade in the end (Djorou, Bendtner, Eboue) or go so fed up with the long 'transition' they fucked off to actually win the trophies their talent's deserved (Fabregas, Nasri, Song) Van Persie wasted most of his career waiting for this great Arsenal team that never came. Can you imagine Hazard sticking around if we are still hiding behind transition when he is 26 while Real Madrid pushing hard for him? i can't either. One of the players we planned our future around, gone because he is fed up of waiting for the eggs to hatch, players have short career's after all.

That sounds a really bad comment on a fan point of view but it's not, when i started following we were a mid table team in the 90's when i was a little, little kid, but i knew that, accepted that and adjusted my expectation's accordingly and i will do that again if we ever end up back as a midtable team in my lifetime. I just really don't want to go through all this 'this team will be great in 2 or 3 years' crap, i use to mock Arsenal fans for that, and ultimately got proved right.

Ofcourse i want the youth players that are good enough to be trusted to some extent, but to be given a nailed on first team place at the age of 18-20? sorry but i cross the line there (unless that player was a complete freak of nature, which none of our youth player are).

Selective argument at best. How convenient of you to omit their inability to retain their best players as the major reason for their demise. Selling the likes of Henry, fabregas, RVP,Nasri,Song, Cole et al was the main factor rather than their focus on youth integration and since we haven't shown the tendency to sell our best players then how exactly are we likely to turn out like arsenal if we show more commitment to youth development and integration.so because we want to nurture Chalobah for e.g means that we would sell ramires?.

[The only place to be 11,313]

100% agree, Wenger and Roy Evans are the prime example's, writing off the present and planning for 2/3 years time doesn't work that much.

Sorry but I've corrected you on your use of Wenger as an example in these debates on youth before. The problem at Arsenal wasn't a reliance on use but A WOEFUL UNDERINVESTMENT IN THE FIRST TEAM.

Also no-one is saying that 18-20 year olds should have nailed-on spots but that they should be used in the squad rather than us wasting spots on Essien, Ba and Eto'o.

Selective argument at best. How convenient of you to omit their inability to retain their best players as the major reason for their demise. Selling the likes of Henry, fabregas, RVP,Nasri,Song, Cole et al was the main factor rather than their focus on youth integration and since we haven't shown the tendency to sell our best players then how exactly are we likely to turn out like arsenal if we show more commitment to youth development and integration.so because we want to nurture Chalobah for e.g means that we would sell ramires?.

Exactly. Arsenal actually got a few things rights, but failed to capitalise on their opportunities by investing. Right now they seem to have reached something of a middle ground with expensive signings like Ozil alongside young players developed in-house (Wilshere, Gibbs) and those acquired and trained up (Ramsay, Walcott).

[Korea 734]

Selective argument at best. How convenient of you to omit their inability to retain their best players as the major reason for their demise. Selling the likes of Henry, fabregas, RVP,Nasri,Song, Cole et al was the main factor rather than their focus on youth integration and since we haven't shown the tendency to sell our best players then how exactly are we likely to turn out like arsenal if we show more commitment to youth development and integration.so because we want to nurture Chalobah for e.g means that we would sell ramires?.

TBH, had Arsenal not sold them, a lot of the younger players would of never gotten as much gametime. But we all know Wenger puts more trust in young players and develops them better than most managers..

100% agree, Wenger and Roy Evans are the prime example's, writing off the present and planning for 2/3 years time doesn't work that much.

Look at when Arsenal sold Patrick Vieira and didn't replace him, yes it gave Fabregas a chance to play week in week out, but it also meant Arsenal went from finishing 2nd with 83 points (if they weren't up against a freak Chelsea team they would have challenged for the title till the end) to 4th with 64 and needing a Tottenham food poising to get Champions League football. Yes they got to the CL final, but that was more off a one man Thierry Henry crusade.

Wenger 'built for the future' and the players he pinned his hopes on either didn't make the grade in the end (Djorou, Bendtner, Eboue) or go so fed up with the long 'transition' they fucked off to actually win the trophies their talent's deserved (Fabregas, Nasri, Song) Van Persie wasted most of his career waiting for this great Arsenal team that never came. Can you imagine Hazard sticking around if we are still hiding behind transition when he is 26 while Real Madrid pushing hard for him? i can't either. One of the players we planned our future around, gone because he is fed up of waiting for the eggs to hatch, players have short career's after all.

That sounds a really bad comment on a fan point of view but it's not, when i started following we were a mid table team in the 90's when i was a little, little kid, but i knew that, accepted that and adjusted my expectation's accordingly and i will do that again if we ever end up back as a midtable team in my lifetime. I just really don't want to go through all this 'this team will be great in 2 or 3 years' crap, i use to mock Arsenal fans for that, and ultimately got proved right.

Ofcourse i want the youth players that are good enough to be trusted to some extent, but to be given a nailed on first team place at the age of 18-20? sorry but i cross the line there (unless that player was a complete freak of nature, which none of our youth player are).

Wenger knew deep inside he could never compete after the invincible team due to lack of funds and BOD support.

His primary goal was to stay top 4 in the league, play CL football and good football, and make profits on a yearly basis.

[Korea 734]

On a side note, I was really surprised that you guys thought Jose would actually use the youth products.

You guys should know what type of manager Jose is by now and the fact that his "win now" mentality is and always been the same.

[Tomo 21,751]

Selective argument at best. How convenient of you to omit their inability to retain their best players as the major reason for their demise. Selling the likes of Henry, fabregas, RVP,Nasri,Song, Cole et al was the main factor rather than their focus on youth integration and since we haven't shown the tendency to sell our best players then how exactly are we likely to turn out like arsenal if we show more commitment to youth development and integration.so because we want to nurture Chalobah for e.g means that we would sell ramires?.

RVP, Nasri, Song and Fabregas were all there in 2010/2011, i am sure that part of the reason they left was because their talents deserved better than sitting through a never ending transition (like i mentioned on my comment).

Sorry but I've corrected you on your use of Wenger as an example in these debates on youth before. The problem at Arsenal wasn't a reliance on use but A WOEFUL UNDERINVESTMENT IN THE FIRST TEAM.

Also no-one is saying that 18-20 year olds should have nailed-on spots but that they should be used in the squad rather than us wasting spots on Essien, Ba and Eto'o.

Yes you are right, but then again weren't you as good as campaigning in the summer against signing Cavani because of Lukaku? like now with Witsel/Chalobah? So in theory wouldn't that be under-investing? turning down the chance to sign two players in their prime on the off chance two youngsters would turn out to be as good? and if Arsenal did invest properly, then the Fabregas would probably have had to wait a few years before he was a nailed on starter.

[Rmpr 8,977]

Yes you are right, but then again weren't you as good as campaigning in the summer against signing Cavani because of Lukaku? like now with Witsel/Chalobah? So in theory wouldn't that be under-investing? turning down the chance to sign two players in their prime on the off chance two youngsters would turn out to be as good? and if Arsenal did invest properly, then the Fabregas would probably have had to wait a few years before he was a nailed on starter.

How do you have the courage to say that? Lukaku, Chalobah, Baker, Josh, Kalas, Blackman, etc, are all future Ballon D'or winners!!!

Fuck, I dont even know why do we buy so many players to be quite honest, I think we should sell them all and play the future best players of the galaxy...