Asier Illaramendi

[Leif 6,006]

There was talk of him on here before the tournament, his price was known when he signed a new contract last year.

This is simply not true. His role throughout the season for Sociedad was different to the role he played for Spain at the Euros, anyone who watched him enough would know this. With Sociedad he played alongside Markel who was the deepest of the pair, akin to what Illarra was doing for Spain this summer, albeit in a 4-3-3 for Spain. Illarra for Sociedad had the freedom to join the attack and link the play knowing the he had Markel behind him to cover the space.

It's illogical to compare the player that played for Spain to what he did for Sociedad all season. The two teams contrast in styles are totally different. Sociedad are mainly a counter attacking side, whilst Spain are the polar opposite. And as I said before, he played a different role. It's easy to just look at the stats and draw up your own conclusion, but they often don't tell the whole story.

I'm not talking about whatever his buy-out clause may be. I'm saying that his evaluation has shot up after this U21 tournament which I feel should be questioned when you take into account the fact that he performed against players not even in the top leagues in their country. He hasn't shown anything during this tournament that he hasn't already shown with Sociedad. The media like to pick a player and just put them into the spotlight, it's how they do things, and they've just decided they'll go with Asier now. He's not done nor has he been doing anything special.

He played around different players but he was deployed in the same position and role with Spain. Regardless whether Spain play possession football or Sociedad play counter-attacking football he has always stuck to his position, limiting his runs forward, looking to break up play and get the ball to a playmaker - usually Thiago or Prieto - to then make a final decisive pass as he's not capable of doing this himself (whereas other deep players are more than capable of this.)

He's played like a more agile Romeu. Their strengths and weaknesses are almost identical. He's simply around players who better suit his chemistry with that U21 squad than he is with Sociedad which of course makes people rate him higher. He's barely worth £10m in my eyes. He doesn't bring something new to a team. He's simply an above average decent at most things player. That's what you want at a club as a back-up option when your real talent get injured or need a rest. He's a player Arsenal would go for in hopes he magically turns into the next Fabregas. He's not what a top club like Chelsea should take a second look at.

More testament to my point regarding him losing his head a lot is a very simple stat - he had the most yellow cards for Real Sociedad last season - and committed the most fouls - and he only made around the 8th most appearances for Real last season while doing that. So he doesn't have anything to suggest he can be a playmaker, so in a deep role you'd expect his 'qualities' to be profound in defence - yet he doesn't do them any better than our current options do. He's a machine at giving the opposition free-kicks. He's a machine at getting dribbled past. He's a machine at fouling.

He's 23 but he plays like a child still learning the game. That is simply not good enough at all.

[Leif 6,006]

he averages more tackles per game than alonso...

Because Real Madrid have the ball more then their opposition unless they're facing Barcelona whereas Real Sociedad's whole game plan is to let the other team have the ball allowing their defensive midfielders to rack up tackles and try starting a counter-attack. Alonso's primary job is being a playmaker and the tackles in that team are mainly instigated by Khedira.

Now if we compare him to Khedira you'll notice the German does his job with far less fouls and also better pass accuracy.

[lucio 5,418]

he anchors the midfield and has fantastic passing and can tackle well. what else are you expecting? thiago is the playmaker for spain u21 just like someone like oscar would be for us in a midfield 3.

[Leif 6,006]

Not trying to 'base opinions off of a Youtube video' but I just Youtube'd him to see what came up. Found this showing exactly what he does consistently at club level. Always winning the aerial duels - but heading the ball back to the opposition and giving them possession while committing a foul as they then attack Real. Lots of dwelling on the ball and then being tackled too. Also note how many passes he attempts when his teammate is clearly offside.

[Despiadado.Maleante 1,046]

Its really scary how good Spain are and how much talent the have coming up

[lucio 5,418]

Because Real Madrid have the ball more then their opposition unless they're facing Barcelona whereas Real Sociedad's whole game plan is to let the other team have the ball allowing their defensive midfielders to rack up tackles and try starting a counter-attack. Alonso's primary job is being a playmaker and the tackles in that team are mainly instigated by Khedira.

Now if we compare him to Khedira you'll notice the German does his job with far less fouls and also better pass accuracy.

sami khedira wins on average 2 tackles a game. illaremendi wins 3.8. far less fouls? khedira makes 1.2 compared to his 1.5 hardly astronomical and their supposed to rack up tackles as you said so there is no problem here. and khediras passing is 1% higher despite playing in a much better team who has more possession. and illaremendi averages quite allot more passes per game

[Leif 6,006]

sami khedira wins on average 2 tackles a game. illaremendi wins 3.8. far less fouls? khedira makes 1.2 compared to his 1.5 hardly astronomical and their supposed to rack up tackles as you said so there is no problem here. and khediras passing is 1% higher despite playing in a much better team who has more possession. and illaremendi averages quite allot more passes per game

Of course Khedira will average less tackles per game. If Real Madrid have 60% possession most games and Real Sociedad have around 40% that's a whole lot more time for Sociedad's players to try and tackle isn't it? Also how much Asier do you watch? If you watch a lot you'll agree that a lot of his tackles hit the ball right towards the opposition and lead to a scoring chance for whoever his team is facing, yes? This is because he slides in, often from behind or the side, with no intent other than to get the ball away from whoever's in possession. He doesn't think ahead. His football brain is naive and young. He doesn't think "I should tackle this player with this technique". It's just "Tackle him" like he's a cyborg.

Khedira on the other hand will tackle/intercept and then lay the ball off to Ozil or Alonso and be a constant recycling-possession option, and also offer a lot more in terms of going forward.

That is far less fouls. That racks up to 3+ fouls in 2 games for Asier whereas it'd take at least 3 games for Khedira to even reach that 3-foul mark. Again, of course he'll have more passes per game. You're not exactly a main playmaker when you've got Xabi Alonso and Ozil in your team. And again, if you watch him, you'll see that the majority of those passes are quick one-twos with defenders. The exact thing Mikel is berated for by half the forum.

To touch on passing; Khedira often uses smart simple passes to a playmaker as he knows he's not exactly Pirlo on the ball. Asier tries too much though and doesn't think enough. He won't even look where he's passing half the time meaning the ball either goes out for a throw-in or his teammate has to run out of position to the stray ball leaving a gaping hole behind him for the opposition to potentially exploit.

Having the technique to pass well is one thing. Having the brain to pass well is a whole other and more important thing.

[JDY 1,290]

I honestly don't know whether he's trolling or not. I disagree with just about everything said, throwing statistics in without any context and massively exaggerating what you consider flaws even though it's normal for the player in his mould.

We've clearly been watching a different player & different Real Sociedad, so let's just agree to disagree.

[Leif 6,006]

I disagree with just about everything said

Well it is a forum after all which is all about opinions. Just because you disagree doesn't mean you're correct.

throwing statistics in without any context

I backed literally every single stat up

and massively exaggerating what you consider flaws even though it's normal for the player in his mould.

Or perhaps you're massively suppressing?

[lucio 5,418]

the only flaws IMO are a possible lack of stamina and over reliance on his right foot. other than that he is a suitable defensive mid in a 4-3-3 provided the other 2 midfielders are of high quality.

[OneMoSalah 8,889]

Yeah not good enough for us but good enough for Madrid who are known admirers of his......

[Leif 6,006]

other than that he is a suitable defensive mid in a 4-3-3 provided the other 2 midfielders are of high quality.

Indeed. But to start with we play a 4-2-3-1. And if we switch back to a 4-3-3 we have Mikel still. If Mikel remains next season there's little doubt he'll be a starter, meaning Asier would be on the bench (neither Mikel nor Asier will take up a role just ahead of the other defensive midfielder surely). So then what happens with Romeu? We just pay for this guy (who we're not even linked with I just realised) and write Romeu off because he had an injury?

[Leif 6,006]

Yeah not good enough for us but good enough for Madrid who are known admirers of his......

Known admirers? How is this known? That 'information' originated in a non-Spanish paper who are still running a story that we look likely to be losing Mata:

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/409202/Friday-Transfer-News-Liverpool-to-sign-Luis-Alberto-as-Arsenal-go-big-for-Gonzalo-Higuain

Real Madrid have also had Woodgate, Faubert, Drenthe, Granero etc. but that doesn't mean they're magically good enough for us.

[OneMoSalah 8,889]

Known admirers? How is this known?

Linked with him. Alonso's father has also said he'd be a good fit at Real and hes similar to his son IIRC.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Not good enough for us IMO. Better players out there.

Is he even better than Romeu?

[Leif 6,006]

Linked with him.

We've been 'linked' with Gomez, Dzeko, Falcao, Cavani, Rooney, Lewandowski, Aspas, Higuain and Jovetic just this year though and it's not really a link when it's just posted as a rumour to garner views for a newspaper who make the majority of their stories up.

In the exact same position as Asier Real Madrid have also been 'linked' with Benat, Vidal, Pogba, Kondogbia, Toure etc. and just signed Modric not long ago.

[OneMoSalah 8,889]

We've been 'linked' with Gomez, Dzeko, Falcao, Cavani, Rooney, Lewandowski, Aspas, Higuain and Jovetic just this year though and it's not really a link when it's just posted as a rumour to garner views for a newspaper who make the majority of their stories up.

In the exact same position as Asier Real Madrid have also been 'linked' with Benat, Vidal, Pogba, Kondogbia, Toure etc. and just signed Modric not long ago.

Well anyway. Lets just say that Illaramendi is a quality player and if he moves on this summer big clubs will want him. (Madrid, Arsenal, Chelsea, etc.)

[JDY 1,290]

Well it is a forum after all which is all about opinions. Just because you disagree doesn't mean you're correct.

I backed literally every single stat up

Or perhaps you're massively suppressing?

- I didn't say I was correct, I just disagreed with you, like you disagreed with me.

- Yes, backed up without context. Comparing him to players who are playing in different roles this season (the only fair comparison based on his season with Sociedad was Khedira). He was not playing as a DLP for Sociedad, but showed potential that he could have the right attributes to be a good one (which he demonstrated with Spain with his style akin to Busquets/Carrick). Some of the stats were also wrong.

- Maybe I am, but I'm only calling it as I see it, just like you are. Like I said, clearly we have been watching a different player, because our opinions couldn't be more different.

[OneMoSalah 8,889]

Anyway Leif, your post you put up there......

Having the technique to pass well is one thing. Having the brain to pass well is a whole other and more important thing.

Well that is odd because I'd say he was the glue in that Spanish U21's team, he was always making himself available and playing passes at the right time, dribbling at the right time, timing when to pass and when not to pass well etc. I'm pretty sure thats using his brain isn't it?

He doesn't think ahead. His football brain is naive and young. He doesn't think "I should tackle this player with this technique". It's just "Tackle him" like he's a cyborg.

What the fuck?

No offence but that is a ridiculous statement on its own. When you tackle someone you don't think about the technique, you think about trying to get the ball.... not where is the ball going to go or will they get the ball back... you just try and get the ball... sure some players tackle someone and the ball goes to their team mate but I have serious doubts they do the tackle knowing their team mate will get the ball. Name me one player who intentionally tackles someone so their team mate gets the ball from the tackle?

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Wasn't Romeu the fulcrum of the Spanish side before his injury?

Illara is obviously a good player but you simply can't ignore the system he's playing, the players supporting him and the quality of the opposition he's facing.

Lets see how he performs in the upcoming CL before crowning him the next Busquets/Redondo or whatever.