The Politics of Chelsea

[bushman 2,043]

Currently, there are more & better educated people in the world than ever before.

Racism is present in every society. In some places more than in others.

These extreme groups will be there for much longer than we would like to see it.

[bluesman2610 1,417]

If only the other De Guzman would play for us as well. Spain has a lot of racism unfortunately, even the Madrid clubs have problems with it.

About religion. It's obviously a weighty topic and very complex and difficult for many to discuss. I don't really get religion, how anyone can believe in some creator being that watches over us and judges us based on our morality, is beyond me. Marx was wrong about a lot, but he was right about religion being the opiate of the masses. When people think there is going to justice in the world to come, they can overlook the horrible injustices in the real world. That said, I can see where religion comes from. It's a natural instinct and I don't think that without religion, we'd have peace or anything. People find ways to divide themselves and squabble. We are tribal beings which once may have served us well but now destroys us. Overall, if someone wants to be religious, I don't care at all, just don't try to force it on anyone and don't use it as an excuse not to allow basic human rights.

if only..played with johnathan when we were kids before he moved out to the netherlands and was always better than julian to me.. but now hes officially capped theres no way thats going to happen.. and he looks so promising just looking at how well he has been playing for swansea.. but that will always be OUR downfall our players don't really want to play for us begovic(stoke) haregraves ( in his prime before injury) de guzman and hoilett

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

Historically Chelsea's "base" is politically mildly conservative/centre-right but no right wing or any extremist. This has nothing to do with racism. There might be a group of "fans" who actually may represent racist positions and sometimes commit racist chants (remember that game against spurs with the "yiddo Ausschwitz" comments, but IMO that is just plain racism that is found everywhere, a problem in society but not a specific problem of the club. Especially considering our traditionally multinational and multiethnical squad no one can say we are not liberal-minded.

To that religion thing:

You can not say religion is bad in general. There are religions that defy our ethical values. But Christianty is "good" per definiton as it has lain the foundation for what are our values in the Westerm hemisphere. There might have been evil/mislead people who have instrumentalised religion for war etc. but that is not the religion's fault but also due to the circumstances such as uneducated people, stirr society system etc. Now you can say u do not need religion to do the moralic right things. But not all ethics can be derived from the nature of human coexistence. In this world u can not always see the consequences of your actions. To evaluate actions right and make sure you do the moralic right things u have to follow instructions. These can be simply informations and rational thinking or s.o. you trust. To get information u have to belive a medium or at least. And religion is no more than that. Simply a belief system. Now you can say. I do not belive in anything and do what I want to. well that again is believing you can do anything you want. So you believe in yourself and the freedom of your action. Again a belief system. Whatever you do you have principles for your action even if these are to have no principles. Hence religion is simply a phenomenon of human consciousness.

[bushman 2,043]

Christianity was present everywhere not only in Western hemisphere.

[dave30 728]

Always had a broadly loyalist fanbase but success has obviously diluted this.

[Behemoth 266]

Always had a broadly loyalist fanbase but success has obviously diluted this.

Loyalist?

[bushman 2,043]

Ever since Roman came on board & the team began to win trophies, Chelsea became recognized worldwide.

In other words from so called " loyalists" to an international club.

[manpe 10,861]

Conflits are part of human nature

It is not.

You are literally saying that the essence of religion is bad. It is not, they all basically instigate good concepts and behavior, but people misuse it!

I haven't read the bible or whatever, but I've seen excerpts of it and there are some vile stuff in there. For example it instructs to punish raped women by killing them. There are also sadistic episodes against animals, among other things. Then there is God himself sending his son on Earth to suffer and die for mankind, instead of coming himself perhaps to sweep the mess he created. Father of the year that bloke was.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

I assume Dave was referring to Loyalist in the sense of being nationalist, protestant, and against a unified Ireland as opposed to being "loyal".

Religion did not create morality and does not own it. In fact, countries that are less religious tend to have better morals IMO than countries that are more religious (less violent, more equality, less discrimination, etc...).

[Behemoth 266]

I assume Dave was referring to Loyalist in the sense of being nationalist, protestant, and against a unified Ireland as opposed to being "loyal".

Religion did not create morality and does not own it. In fact, countries that are less religious tend to have better morals IMO than countries that are more religious (less violent, more equality, less discrimination, etc...).

I understood from his avatar. Whats with the Israeli flag in there though?

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

I understood from his avatar. Whats with the Israeli flag in there though?

No idea, you can ask him. To me, it looks like a pic of a bunch of friends meeting up at the Ibrox gates. Maybe one of the friends is Israeli.

[fAnta 107]

It is not.I haven't read the bible or whatever, but I've seen excerpts of it and there are some vile stuff in there. For example it instructs to punish raped women by killing them. There are also sadistic episodes against animals, among other things. Then there is God himself sending his son on Earth to suffer and die for mankind, instead of coming himself perhaps to sweep the mess he created. Father of the year that bloke was.

if you haven't read the complete of anything, your not really in a position in judge. By reading extracts, chances are your reading someone else's opinion who manipulated specfic extracts out of context.

also don't just use the bible as your basis against 'religion' in general. christianity isn't the only religion out there...Anyway religion is hard to talk about over the internet for obvious reasons.

one thing I want to say in this message though is never judge something from what you read in the news or read on a website. I used to do this and in hindsight feel foolish. not until I read the primary source or things in question did I fully realise this.

[Rmpr 8,977]

It is not.I haven't read the bible or whatever, but I've seen excerpts of it and there are some vile stuff in there. For example it instructs to punish raped women by killing them. There are also sadistic episodes against animals, among other things. Then there is God himself sending his son on Earth to suffer and die for mankind, instead of coming himself perhaps to sweep the mess he created. Father of the year that bloke was.

1. This is very disrespectful for those who believe in it. I advise you delete it.

2. We are not discussing The Bible. This is about religion in general being a good or bad thing. Dont make this a Christian debate...

3. You haven't read, so no point in criticizing it.

4. If you had indeed read it, you would realise it is way less about teaching and way more about showing how (in their own view) the world has developded and the lessons you can take out of it.

5. Again, if you had read it. It would only strengthen your disbelief in it (at leat that was what happened with me), but you would learn to understand it...

6. You havent answered whether you believe books, movies, etc are evil.

[dave30 728]

Loyalist?

Yer loyalist with regards to keeping Ulster British as opposed to a united Ireland, links in with our connection to Rangers. I made that flag ages ago when I was like 15 with a friend, so at the time we needed an extra flag and just went for that one i think I felt at the time Israel got a rough time of it basically.

[Santiago. 1,500]

Getting it all wrong!

Are movies evil? Are books evil? TV Shows? Sports? Everything can be used to brainwash mass population and it is up to individuals to use it for good or bad. Conflits are part of human nature, people fight for various reasons and missunderstandings, it is not something atributed solely to religous stuff.

You are literally saying that the essence of religion is bad. It is not, they all basically instigate good concepts and behavior, but people misuse it!

Spot on mate.

Some people should watch the show, 'the news room'

[Santiago. 1,500]

Can we fucking end this nonsense debate? Unbelievable how we are actually discussing this

[manpe 10,861]

2. We are not discussing The Bible. This is about religion in general being a good or bad thing. Dont make this a Christian debate...

I'm not singling out christianity, in fact I don't care for none of the religions enough for me to single one out.

6. You havent answered whether you believe books, movies, etc are evil.

I didn't answer it because it's a silly analogy and I won't waste my time on it. If you want to talk about books and films, do it in proper forums or open another thread.

Deuteronomy 22:23-24

If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her,

you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

How do you defend this piece of noble and moral story? A woman stoned to death for not crying for help, my word.

[Rmpr 8,977]

Can we fucking end this nonsense debate? Unbelievable how we are actually discussing this

I agree!

All I think is the problem is that people make bad use of it like they do with other tools humanity invented (books, movies, sports, etc). Religious is just a set of believes some choose to accept or not...

I am personality too much of a science guy to blindly accept it, but I dont go bashing the ones who does (my own familiy for instance). The atheist that do it are just as stupid as extremists.

[Rmpr 8,977]

I'm not singling out christianity, in fact I don't care for none of the religions enough for me to single one out.

I didn't answer it because it's a silly analogy and I won't waste my time on it. If you want to talk about books and films, do it in proper forums or open another thread.

Deuteronomy 22:23-24

If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her,

you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

How do you defend this piece of noble and moral story? A woman stoned to death for not crying for help, my word.

You have no arguments mate, you are discussing something you know shit about.

We better just stop it there, sometimes all you need is a happy life.

[manpe 10,861]

You have no arguments mate, you are discussing something you know shit about.

We better just stop it there, sometimes all you need is a happy life.

So you concede that I won? I accept that :tophat: But in all seriousness I don't care about religion enough to have some kind of in depth argument over it, it bores me, I just consider it evil (maybe it's not the best word to use how I feel about it, but I just don't like it), but I don't go fighting religious people, I keep it to myself because otherwise I wouldn't be any better than the jews leaving after that muslim scored. I'm no extremist in that sense, I just may have an "extreme" opinion for some people. If you accept that I consider it bad then I accept that you don't, that's how two non-agreeing adults work things out.

Where does my dislike stem from? Most likely from the books I've read about my nation being abused, killed and enslaved by christians in the past. It was so bad that we almost became extinct. That was probably the moment I started seeing it as nothing more but evil.