Should we put our faith in the youth?

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

If anything it would be ideal if one of our attacking midfielder's was adept as a forward, not the other way around. I don't know how good Moses is upfront.

I don't think very good. He'd be fine as an emergency striker, but I don't think any of us would be happy with him as our #9 for an extended period. It goes back to an overall strange transfer policy from us in many ways creating some real imbalance (we have made a bunch of good signings in the past year, but the overall vision still confuses me).

[JDY 1,290]

I don't think very good. He'd be fine as an emergency striker, but I don't think any of us would be happy with him as our #9 for an extended period. It goes back to an overall strange transfer policy from us in many ways creating some real imbalance (we have made a bunch of good signings in the past year, but the overall vision still confuses me).

Agreed. It seems the club is really fixated on building for the future, to the extent where we've just stockpiled a lot of promising young players (regardless of position) without any clear plan of how to use/develop them. We've started to do a good job with loans though.

[Mundaka 243]

That's why I believe we shouldn't understimate the importance of the striking force. That's why I believe that it's presumptuous and unwise to give the key of our attack to "only" a kid — yes, ready or not, he is still a "kid" — and a stop-gap — yes, Ba is a stop-gap, but don't jump on me, I will explain latter why in my mind he is so, please.

Thats not quite fair, hes more grown up, mentally, than the likes of bolatelli/hazard/oscar/ torres ... for example + his work attitude is already better than most of our players.

Also in his latest interview (see his personal topic) he explained all this and was getting fed up being called a kid an therefor getting less chances than other players, you also should know that he already made his debut at Anderlecht at the age of 16 yo and played more than 100 games on a high level... and for me once your passed 18 your not an kid anymore anyways, although some may still be a kid mentally when they are 25 ...

I doubt a "kid" could become the first foreign teenager in a league like this to score that much... (I am right aye? Only owen and fowler scored more?)

Years Team Apps† (Gls)†

2008–2011 Anderlecht 73 (33)

2011– Chelsea 8 (0)

2012– → West Bromwich Albion (loan) 26 (13)

National team‡

2008 Belgium U15 4 (1)

2011 Belgium U18 1 (0)

2009 Belgium U21 5 (1)

2010– Belgium 19 (3

Y

[Stingray 9,441]

How many Premier League goals has Cavani scored?

Ba is a stop gap who has scored 15 league goals this season. Lukaku has scored 12. The truth is you don't know how good this kid could be, but right now he's surpassing everyone's expectations and we have other areas we need to fill. But you may have a point that Roman won't be willing to change his ways. Yay.

There was this other successful team by the way - Chelsea 2005. Drogba scored 16 goals that season but he was a facilitator - he brought other players into the game because we had goals from the likes of Lamps and Duff. We could have that next season with Mata, Hazard and Oscar getting goals elsewhere whilst Lukaku creates space and chances for them.

It's very easy to say we should spend £50 million on a striker like Cavani because he's proven but he's still a risk. We did that before when we signed someone called Fernando Torres and Lukaku has done everything asked of him.

People willing to write him off using jaundiced logic when they won't apply it to their own suggestions really does piss me off.

Word up on this. Boooya!

[Stingray 9,441]

Also, this debate is based on the premise that Torres is goingto be gone. Is he? Do you know this?

If we were to get Cavani, still have Torres, Ba and get Lukaku back .... Well, whats the point of having young players on board anyway. This policy would be aftually very detrimental to Chelsea in the long run - and keep us into short term politics like we are now.

I do agree we need a good, no excellent striker to add depth to the team. Anything lower than Cavani quality is useless with our current team. So get Torres out, maybe even Ba, recall Lukaku and see if Feruz can make it to the bench.

Same for the cm position. KDB is more than ready for the CM. All the other pricey alternatives sound good (if it costs a lot, it must be good!!) but are a fallacy performance wise.

So, we HAVE amazing talent. Give it a chance, even though this year has made us so impatient, it is not worth sacrificing our future.

My two cents anyway.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Also, this debate is based on the premise that Torres is goingto be gone. Is he? Do you know this?

If we were to get Cavani, still have Torres, Ba and get Lukaku back .... Well, whats the point of having young players on board anyway. This policy would be aftually very detrimental to Chelsea in the long run - and keep us into short term politics like we are now.

I do agree we need a good, no excellent striker to add depth to the team. Anything lower than Cavani quality is useless with our current team. So get Torres out, maybe even Ba, recall Lukaku and see if Feruz can make it to the bench.

Same for the cm position. KDB is more than ready for the CM. All the other pricey alternatives sound good (if it costs a lot, it must be good!!) but are a fallacy performance wise.

So, we HAVE amazing talent. Give it a chance, even though this year has made us so impatient, it is not worth sacrificing our future.

My two cents anyway.

1) Feruz is not going to be on the team next year (except maybe in the way Ake is this year), He has played zero professional games. He's not even remotely ready for Chelsea. He's likely not even ready for a loan to a Premier League club.

2) Kevin De Bruyne is not ready to be our #1 CM. He's played exclusively as an attacking midfielder or a false 9 this season and mostly that or a winger last season as well and his game seems to be more suited for that position . It's possible, he can develop into a central midfielder as might Oscar (who I think is actually better suited there) but starting the season with someone who is not a central midfielder and has very little experience playing there as a starter is a massive risk and teams that plan on contending can't take risks like that in their starting XI.

3) We're all writing Torres off as gone but it's possible they won't be able to get rid of him which would very very bad for us in so many ways.

4) I don't think Ba and Lukaku is a good enough strike-force to win the Premier League (I'd rather see either as the #2 guy right now) but they're both too good to be a #3 striker as well.

[Stingray 9,441]

1) Feruz is not going to be on the team next year (except maybe in the way Ake is this year), He has played zero professional games. He's not even remotely ready for Chelsea. He's likely not even ready for a loan to a Premier League club.

2) Kevin De Bruyne is not ready to be our #1 CM. He's played exclusively as an attacking midfielder or a false 9 this season and mostly that or a winger last season as well and his game seems to be more suited for that position . It's possible, he can develop into a central midfielder as might Oscar (who I think is actually better suited there) but starting the season with someone who is not a central midfielder and has very little experience playing there as a starter is a massive risk and teams that plan on contending can't take risks like that in their starting XI.

3) We're all writing Torres off as gone but it's possible they won't be able to get rid of him which would very very bad for us in so many ways.

4) I don't think Ba and Lukaku is a good enough strike-force to win the Premier League (I'd rather see either as the #2 guy right now) but they're both too good to be a #3 striker as well.

1. I said SEE if he can make it to the bench.

2. You dont know that. Kevin HAS played as cm before and did really well. So that is conjecture.

3. Thats what I said. See my first sentence.

4. That is your opinion. They do make a lot of goals dont they. The taste of the pudding is in the eating. Still, as I said, Lukaku and Cavani is my dream combo.

Plz read my posts better before going all 1,2,3,4 on me :-)

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

1. I said SEE if he can make it to the bench.

2. You dont know that. Kevin HAS played as cm before and did really well. So that is conjecture.

3. Thats what I said. See my first sentence.

4. That is your opinion. They do make a lot of goals dont they. The taste of the pudding is in the eating. Still, as I said, Lukaku and Cavani is my dream combo.

Plz read my posts better before going all 1,2,3,4 on me :-)

1) There are a lot more theoretical tryouts than real ones in football. Rosters are pretty much set early and pre-season form doesn't change that. How much did our pre-season games change our roster or our lineup this season? The answer is none. It just doesn't work like that in football. The changes that get made in the roster are when someone is a sub is able to get a shot and show their quality and earn time. Feruz isn't even on the fringes. At best, he's our #4 striker right now. Feruz will be loaned out, probably to a Championship team.

2) KDB has rarely played CM and he certainly hasn't this year. The only games I can see his position from last year, he either played attacking midfield, winger or left midfield. He may have played CM with Genk a few times, but at that form, he wasn't good enough for Chelsea. The reason people are rightly excited by him is because of his form this year which has been as a very attacking player. The type of game he's playing this year is excellent for an attacking player, but it would be awful for a central midfielder. (Excellent in crossing, setting up chances, scoring, but a 76.7% passing percentage and poor defensive game). The idea that he will easily be able to play as a deep-lying midfielder is absurd. He might be able to play there but he might not.

3) I was agreeing with you.

4) Yes, it is my opinion which is why I said "I think" rather than a statement of fact.

[Stingray 9,441]

1) There are a lot more theoretical tryouts than real ones in football. Rosters are pretty much set early and pre-season form doesn't change that. How much did our pre-season games change our roster or our lineup this season? The answer is none. It just doesn't work like that in football. The changes that get made in the roster are when someone is a sub is able to get a shot and show their quality and earn time. Feruz isn't even on the fringes. At best, he's our #4 striker right now. Feruz will be loaned out, probably to a Championship team.

2) KDB has rarely played CM and he certainly hasn't this year. The only games I can see his position from last year, he either played attacking midfield, winger or left midfield. He may have played CM with Genk a few times, but at that form, he wasn't good enough for Chelsea. The reason people are rightly excited by him is because of his form this year which has been as a very attacking player. The type of game he's playing this year is excellent for an attacking player, but it would be awful for a central midfielder. (Excellent in crossing, setting up chances, scoring, but a 76.7% passing percentage and poor defensive game). The idea that he will easily be able to play as a deep-lying midfielder is absurd. He might be able to play there but he might not.

3) I was agreeing with you.

4) Yes, it is my opinion which is why I said "I think" rather than a statement of fact.

Fair enough :-)

[The only place to be 11,313]

Well apparently we're going to go after Falcao using Courtois as bait.

Great.

Put a high-priced striker in front of a young man who has done well, loves Chelsea but unfortunately won't sell as many shirts to people who couldn't find Stamford Bridge with Google fucking Maps helping them whilst also cashing in on someone who could live between the sticks for the next decade and a half.

Fucking ridiculous.

[The only place to be 11,313]

You didn't understand what I was saying (or I might have badly explained it).

What I was saying :

Manchester United 2012-13 : Van Persie (19), Rooney (11)

Manchester City 2011-12 : Aguero (23), Dzeko (14), Balotelli (13)

Manchester United 2010-11 : Berbatov (21), Own Goal (I don't remember the figure), Rooney (11), Hernandez (13)

Chelsea 2009-10 : Drogba (29), Anelka (11)

Manchester United 2008-09 : Rooney (12), Ronaldo (18), Tevez (5)

Manchester United 2007-08 : Ronaldo (31), Tevez (14), Rooney (13)

...

I was not talking about Chelsea when we had Mourinho. I was just looking at the five previous seasons (plus this one) to work out what was the current tendency in football. And from the stats, and my opinion, I can say that the striking force of the club which have recently won the Premier League has taken an important role in those victories — and this both regarding the goals scored and the work done (and I stress that I don't base my judgment solely on the goal record).

The same goes for the Liga. Though I don't really know for the Bundesliga and the Calcio.

And that is exactly the same for the Champions League. When Milan won in 2007, Kakà (who was played as a striker/Second striker), was instrumental in their victory (especially against United). And Super Pipo scored the two goals in the final. In 2008, the striking force Ronaldo/Tevez/Rooney was instrumental. In 2009, Eto'o was instrumental (in the CL and the league as well — he scored about 1/3 of Barcelona first goals). In 2010, Milito was instrumental (scored the two goals in the final). 2011, Messi was instrumental. 2012, Drogba was instrumental.

I am just saying that, to my understanding, the majority of the successful teams of the recent years had a powerful striking force. To my mind, a great striking force is required to be succesfull.

That's why I believe we shouldn't understimate the importance of the striking force. That's why I believe that it's presumptuous and unwise to give the key of our attack to "only" a kid — yes, ready or not, he is still a "kid" — and a stop-gap — yes, Ba is a stop-gap, but don't jump on me, I will explain latter why in my mind he is so, please.

Look, did you see what happens to Barça when Messi — for X ou Y reason — is not playing good ? The catalans struggle to score, they lack penetration, and they also have hard times to creat any goal-scoring chance. How many times this season Manchester United were saved by RvP ? How comes last year Arsenal managed to get the third spot ? The dutchman carried them there. How comes that ever sonce the summer 2010, we are in shambles ? Our striking force is average ! They aren't there to get in goals when it matters. They aren't there to cause havocs in defences, etc...

My point here, is that without a very good (not good, but very good) striking force, you will find it hard to lift some important trophies at the end of the season.

Not going to make a long post because I don't have time, but we don't have to do things the way other clubs do.

We have goals from around the front four like we did 8 years ago. Then our main contributor was Lamps, yet it worked. What Drogba did was bring other people into the game and made them better players and we can do that again. Hazard, Moses and even Oscar are capable of contributing goals whilst Lukaku has shown a knack of scoring goals too.

People keep saying we need a proven striker, and then thrown in names like Falcao and Cavani who ARE NOT proven in the Premier League. Yesterday Lukaku made Ashley Williams his bitch - this is a guy Arsenal are seriously looking at and who has been a form player all season.

Lukaku has done exactly what was asked of him and I don't see a single reason why he can't be our main guy next season. I want this guy to succeed, I'd be excited turning up to see him play every week because he loves this club like every single supporter in the ground does. He's stepped up and met every challenge thrown at him with an impeccable attitude and amazing results. He deserves a chance, he deserves us supporting him.

What he doesn't deserve is people saying he isn't good enough before he's had the chance to prove it. That's not supporting him.

[Santiago. 1,500]

Well apparently we're going to go after Falcao using Courtois as bait.

Great.

Put a high-priced striker in front of a young man who has done well, loves Chelsea but unfortunately won't sell as many shirts to people who couldn't find Stamford Bridge with Google fucking Maps helping them whilst also cashing in on someone who could live between the sticks for the next decade and a half.

Fucking ridiculous.

According to whom exactly?

[Styles 9,790]

Well apparently we're going to go after Falcao using Courtois as bait.

Great.

Put a high-priced striker in front of a young man who has done well, loves Chelsea but unfortunately won't sell as many shirts to people who couldn't find Stamford Bridge with Google fucking Maps helping them whilst also cashing in on someone who could live between the sticks for the next decade and a half.

Fucking ridiculous.

Sounds very much like the next manager has identified his main target. Guess the new man doesn't care much for the young players.

[Bosnian Blue 2,471]

The answer is yes, we should, but the reality is that we won't.

[Santiago. 1,500]

Sounds very much like the next manager has identified his main target. Guess the new man doesn't care much for the young players.

Again, according to where?

[Mundaka 243]

The rumour:

http://www.elcentrocampista.com/2013/02/chelsea-closing-in-on-la-liga-star/

Courtois already made a statement about this rumour(Has been going on since our defeat vs Atl. Madrid):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/feedarticle/10661678

Anyways 47M + Courtois(70/80M?) vs Falcao whom we might not even need? Would be ridiculous considering fair play rules + we should strengthen CM first if anything, doubt much money will be left like that :/.

[Mundaka 243]

The answer is yes, we should, but the reality is that we won't.

Care to explain why?

[Bosnian Blue 2,471]

Care to explain why?

No stability, no manager who would last longer than a year or two, no football men at the Board, no patience, the fact Roman doesn't know what he wants etc. Plenty of reasons.

Just for the record, I'm speaking about Chelsea's youth, Chelsea's academy products, not youngsters like Hazard or Oscar who costed quite a lot of money.

[Peace. 4,352]

Not going to make a long post because I don't have time, but we don't have to do things the way other clubs do.

We have goals from around the front four like we did 8 years ago. Then our main contributor was Lamps, yet it worked. What Drogba did was bring other people into the game and made them better players and we can do that again. Hazard, Moses and even Oscar are capable of contributing goals whilst Lukaku has shown a knack of scoring goals too.

People keep saying we need a proven striker, and then thrown in names like Falcao and Cavani who ARE NOT proven in the Premier League. Yesterday Lukaku made Ashley Williams his bitch - this is a guy Arsenal are seriously looking at and who has been a form player all season.

Lukaku has done exactly what was asked of him and I don't see a single reason why he can't be our main guy next season. I want this guy to succeed, I'd be excited turning up to see him play every week because he loves this club like every single supporter in the ground does. He's stepped up and met every challenge thrown at him with an impeccable attitude and amazing results. He deserves a chance, he deserves us supporting him.

What he doesn't deserve is people saying he isn't good enough before he's had the chance to prove it. That's not supporting him.

Yes, we do not have to do things the other clubs do. But we neither have to act like hipsters and believe that a squad lacking quality will do just fine. The board already did it this year and last year.

Yes, we could try and apply this tactic once again. But in fact, I see many flaws in it. First of all, Lukaku is not Drogba. They are two different player. Drogba is a target man. He holds the ball perfectly. Lukaku plays different football. Even if he is tall and strong, he doesn't play like a target man. I could be wrong, if he has dramatically changed is way of playing, but I don't think it's the case (maybe someone can enlight us). Of course, he can adapt to a different role. But let's not make the same mistake we did with Mikel, i.e. change his role while developing. I'd rather let him develope further and then why not try to change his playing style.

Secondly, Hazard/Mata/Oscar aren't Lampard. In my honest opinion, the Lampard back then was head and shoulders above them, when it comes to score goals. They are not as good and tend to miss golden opportunities. The best exemple is Oscar missing three golden opportunities against West Bromwich. The two others do it also. That's why I would be recalcitrant to expect them to do the same job as Lampard was doing back then.

And finally, I don't like this tactic where you put the goalscoring responsability upon your midfielders' shoulders. Because they are not natural goal scorers, that's not their job, that's all. It's really a bonus to have midfielders like Mata and Oscar who are perfectly able to score a lot of goals. But that doesn't mean they should do the striker job. This ability is a bonus. You cannot expect your midfielders to be your goalscoring players, then expect your striker to step up when they cannot find the net. That's the other way around. That's how I see things, at least. To me, strikers should score goals and midfielders should do the play.

People keep saying Falcao, maybe, but not me. Actually I think it will be the flop n°3 and I don't want him. However, I want Cavani. And no, please, not because it looks nice to throw in such a name or whatsoever. I want him because I like his profil, and I think that he is what we need. Voilà.

And in another post of yours you told me :

People willing to write him off using jaundiced logic when they won't apply it to their own suggestions really does piss me off.

That baffles me. You say this and then go on about that Cavani is not proven in the Premier League and blablabla. Is Lukaku proven against big teams ? No. And you say that Chalobah is ready for coming back to Chelsea. But is he proven in the PL ? No. Is he proven against top opposition ? No.

I fail to understand you there. Yeah, Cavani is not proven in the Premier League, so what ? Ah but yeah ! Lukaku looked great against Ashley Williams, the player followed by Arsenal. Is he of the caliber of Giroud, Squillacy, André Santos, Mertesacker, etc...? Don't get me wrong, I am not undermining his performance.

P.S. In another post you told me that I was writting him off, not at all.... That's quite the contrary. I believe that he is ready, but I also believe that there are better solutions for both him and us, that's all.

[Stingray 9,441]

Lukaku himself said in that belgian interview that he is NOT a target man, and probably never will be. He prefers putting more depth in his game instead of footballing with his back to the goal. He simply has different qualities (strength, speed - the only one faster is Hazard in the NT, he said, and his nose for goals).

As is Peace, I love Cavani. Not for the hype (eg Falcao) but for his player profile. I do see a match in playing our midfield + Cavani. Also, we would have options playing with two strikers (cavani/Lukaku or ba).

Somehow it computes in my brain. So, do we put faith in youth? Yes! But we put some additional experience, quality and the position of target man in the blender. One does not rule out the other in this case.

Ps: we will prolly still need to 'malouda' Torres though.