Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

[zolayes 14,489]

75 year old acting like 10 year old.

now I know you are just a troll

[Leif 6,006]

Is there anything about Chelsea that you like?

Not anymore really. Love the past though. Lampard & Terry will be gone soon, leaving just Cech from the legends era. Sure, I love Mata and..oh and Cole, but the other aspects of the club would have me considering myself a lunatic to say I liked.

Chelsea is like a wife you've been with for years. You're now used to it and love it, but that doesn't mean you like it's traits still. I'm not going to just divorce old Chelsea and marry on-the-rise Tottenham or prettier Arsenal, am i?

[Styles 9,790]

He's a guy running a business. Show me one person who doesn't make mistakes in the first ten years?

And he probably did the right things to get us to the level where we could win titles, but it's shifting from a business based on outside investment to one that can be self-sustaining that is tricky and that's where we've fallen down.

There are so many positive signs though with the signings we've made and the performance of our young kids (our future) that people need to take a long-term view of things rather than simply calling for 'the board' to be sacked without being able to explain why.

The main thing needs to be sorting out the managerial situation.

Agreed. The issue is the players that should be bridging the gap in the meantime aren't performing for a number of reasons and they have been short on numbers all year. To be fair that's good enough reason alone as to why the board should be sacked (failing to provide numerous managers with enough players to compete properly in a season). This is Ron Gourlay speaking after Munich:

"We've got Fernando Torres. And Fernando Torres is the man that we will go forward with and Fernando Torres will score us the goals," Gourlay said. "Have no doubt that Fernando Torres is a world-class centre-forward and Fernando Torres will score goals for Chelsea."

There were stories of Di Matteo wanting another striker in the summer and being rebuffed. The decision was clearly made that Torres would be given every chance to succeed fail. Five months later we're out the Champions League, no hope of the title and end up buying a striker in the January transfer window. Who is making these decisions if it isn't the manager? Quite clearly 'the board'.

We have hoovered up a lot of young talent and it's promising but for a club that has for years failed to develop and integrate young players we have to see real progress before we go putting all our eggs into that basket.

[Leif 6,006]

Liverpool have fallen. Arsenal have fallen. AC Milan have fallen. Juventus had fallen. Tottenham have risen. Manchester City have risen. PSG have risen. Valencia have fallen. Lyon keep yo-yo-ing. Inter Milan have fallen. Borussia Dortmund have again risen.

Yet people think we're some exclusive magic club that'll never fall and just somehow sit at the top of the football world without merit? No. We can and will fall unless things change soon.

[Fulham Broadway 16,855]

I'm not the one who said the guy who wrote the piece had 'nailed it'. You're the one who did that and you've been walking it back ever since.

My view on Roman is that he's made plenty of mistakes, but that he's human and that he's been trying to run this club properly in recent years. Still, the signings of Torres (for which Carlo gets a free pass but others don't) and the hiring of Benitez (who I defended at the time because he seemed like the best option) were indefensible in hindsight.

But I made a point to put them into context with the other things we do. I look at the Lukaku and Courtois signings and think we're replacing key players. I look at the performance of our youth team and think we're doing exactly the right thing in the academy. I look at the signings of Azpi, Ba and Moses and think we're finally moving away from the high-priced 30 year olds we used to sign. I look at the continuing moves to secure a bigger stadium and think this is a guy in it for the long-haul. I look at the contracts we've offered to players like Mata and Cahill and think we're finally looking to balance the books.

Right now, we're in about as bad a spot as we've been for years. But I truly think we have something very special coming together that will start with the appointment of the right manager. Until I don't think that then I'm not going to call for heads to roll because I personally see no reason to.

And I'm going to continue to read things through and compare them with my own thoughts and feelings before I say someone's 'nailed-it'.

Yes hindsight is wonderful - so now you dont think Benitez is any good, do you still say Lampard should go ?

[The only place to be 11,313]

The atmosphere at a club has nothing to do with the trophies. That would be like a Liverpool fan saying "we should be much quieter at Anfield so the players can concentrate. That's how Chelsea get all their trophies!!!", no?

As for the points regarding Arsenal, did they not finish higher than us in the league last season? I don't think it's bad to aspire to be like a team who plays better football and finished higher in the league. Also out on loan they have Ryo, Joel and Afobe, all of which are expected to actually be a part of Arsenal one day, unlike 98% of anyone we've ever loaned out.

Instead of going out and splashing a cool £35m or whatever it was on Hazard and £20m on Oscar, they've brought through Wilshere, bought Oxlade-Chamberlain (who's probably had about the same impact Hazard has had with us IMO yet cost just a 3rd or something of Hazard), Gibbs, Coquelin, etc.

When players who are ex-Arsenal go on to win trophies elsewhere after failing to do-so with Arsenal, when they talk about their past, there's always a spark in their eye. A spark of happiness. They're proud to say "I played for Arsenal." Whenever ex-players of ours in the Roman era bring up "I played for Chelsea" I expect and have experienced seeing them feel awkward saying so. Notice how whenever Ashley Cole speaks of his past, just about everything positive he says is about "Arsenal" and fuck all about Chelsea? There's more to football than trophies.

If you want an atmosphere like Anfield, go to Anfield.

Yes they finished above us in one season. They've had eight years without a trophy though, and they've sold their best player on at least two occasions. They have three players out on loan who could be part of the first team - we have Lukaku, De Bruyne, Courtois, Kalas, Chalobah and Omeruo who I expect to be part of the first-team. We haven't done well in bringing players through in the past but I expect that to change much like our transfer policy has.

If you think Oxlade-Chamberlain has had a good season, then you either don't watch Arsenal or don't know many Arsenal fans. He's had a poor season and a lot of fans are blaming Wenger for that. Gibbs is a decent left-back but no better than Bertrand. In fact I'd hazard a guess Oscar has score more Champions League goals than those players have Champions League starts.

The last paragraph is bollocks. Ashley loves Chelsea and doesn't tend to talk in glowing terms about the Arsenal fans who labelled him Cashley.

[Leif 6,006]

The last paragraph is bollocks. Ashley loves Chelsea

The last paragraph was me actually stating what I've both heard and seen. Where did you get that from? I'm sure he loves our money, yeah.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Yes hindsight is wonderful - so now you dont think Benitez is any good, do you still say Lampard should go ?

I've said that Lamps should get a new contract if Mourinho becomes manager. But we still need to replace him in the first team so I'm then arguing in favour of a bench player being given at least £80k a week (at a guess), which is against my frugal nature.

I like the idea of Frank sticking around because I enjoy seeing him at the club and would hate seeing him at another. In footballing terms though, I don't know if he's needed.

Agreed. The issue is the players that should be bridging the gap in the meantime aren't performing for a number of reasons and they have been short on numbers all year. To be fair that's good enough reason alone as to why the board should be sacked (failing to provide numerous managers with enough players to compete properly in a season). This is Ron Gourlay speaking after Munich:

There were stories of Di Matteo wanting another striker in the summer and being rebuffed. The decision was clearly made that Torres would be given every chance to succeed fail. Five months later we're out the Champions League, no hope of the title and end up buying a striker in the January transfer window. Who is making these decisions if it isn't the manager? Quite clearly 'the board'.

We have hoovered up a lot of young talent and it's promising but for a club that has for years failed to develop and integrate young players we have to see real progress before we go putting all our eggs into that basket.

I can't stand Torres, but he was a £50million investment (probably double that with wages) and you can't just write them off. The fans didn't write him off either, up until last month (the Sunderland game was the last false dawn) so the board weren't alone in that. We knew how much he cost and that we needed him to succeed. I'm sure people on here were saying after Didier left that he would shine, I know I did.

I think with the hiring of AVB the club showed a willingness to embrace stability and promote young players, but that didn't work out and we all have our theories why. But the willingness and the investment in youth is enough for me to believe that the club does want to do things the right way and until I believe differently I won't be joining in the calls of 'sack the board'.

[The only place to be 11,313]

The last paragraph was me actually stating what I've both heard and seen. Where did you get that from? I'm sure he loves our money, yeah.

From what I've heard and seen at the club.

[Leif 6,006]

heard

Being?

[Term-X 7,891]

now I know you are just a troll

bushman has become active here because he was banned from a neutral football forum (TFF, a forum previously owned by Jim). He was banned for spamming the board with vulgar/poorly articulated posts in which he just 'stated the obvious', plus.. general derailing, trolling, bickering etc.

We actually found out he was only 13 years old, which explains a lot, but still..

[The only place to be 11,313]

Being?

That he was disrespected by Arsenal and turned-on by their fans. It's pretty well-known there's no love lost between him and his former club.

Have you ever read his twitter comments? https://twitter.com/TheRealAC3/status/227076381182406656

[zolayes 14,489]

bushman has become active here because he was banned from a neutral football forum (TFF, a forum previously owned by Jim). He was banned for spamming the board with vulgar/poorly articulated posts in which he just 'stated the obvious', plus.. general derailing, trolling, bickering etc.

We actually found out he was only 13 years old, which explains a lot, but still..

thanks

[Eggman 118]

I do not agree with the crux of the article: that Roman alters the club to increase revenue, to attract customers and to discourage "supporters". If buying Chelsea was a business plan to make profit, he would surely be not much of a business man, spending all that money on players.

In Belgium, one of the great old clubs, Standard de Liège, has been bought by a millionair type who aims exactly at making money out of it. He sold all of their good players instantly (to recuperate the money he invested) without replacing them by even remotely equal players. As a result, the club, who had just crawled out of a harsh 20 year period without trophees, has now been relegated to obscurity once again.

This is not what Roman's "business model" for Chelsea has looked like. Not at all. However, what can be said is that Roman and the people he surrounds himself with know too little about football. Coming out of a different business, he would do well to attract the know-how he himself misses.

RDM won the CL, by chance. This resulted in the fact that he was given the job of manager, without being the right man for the job. Yes, he is a club icon, and he did the impossible, and the manner in which he is treated (cf. the picture and all) is repugnant. But the football with him was horrible and lacked a whole lot, offensively. TFSW has not been able to turn this around.

In sum: Roman cannot think of anything else than to "buy stuff" when it comes to building a club. There is no football philosophy or long-term strategy involved. However, I do not think that he is trying to milk the club to fill his pockets - on the contrary.

[Styles 9,790]

I've said that Lamps should get a new contract if Mourinho becomes manager. But we still need to replace him in the first team so I'm then arguing in favour of a bench player being given at least £80k a week (at a guess), which is against my frugal nature.

I like the idea of Frank sticking around because I enjoy seeing him at the club and would hate seeing him at another. In footballing terms though, I don't know if he's needed.

I can't stand Torres, but he was a £50million investment (probably double that with wages) and you can't just write them off. The fans didn't write him off either, up until last month (the Sunderland game was the last false dawn) so the board weren't alone in that. We knew how much he cost and that we needed him to succeed. I'm sure people on here were saying after Didier left that he would shine, I know I did.

I think with the hiring of AVB the club showed a willingness to embrace stability and promote young players, but that didn't work out and we all have our theories why. But the willingness and the investment in youth is enough for me to believe that the club does want to do things the right way and until I believe differently I won't be joining in the calls of 'sack the board'.

Point is the manager at the time knew he was a busted flush and wanted somebody else but 'the board' in their infinite wisdom overruled his judgement. What supporters thought is irrelevant (and trust me there was plenty of supporters who wanted him gone in the summer let alone being our leading striker for the upcoming season). There are people who are making football decisions when they have no right to be doing so.

AVB showed no willingness to integrate youth players. I remember how he treated Bertrand. We are investing a lot on youth but that's it. We just have more talented young players than we did a few years ago. Only when they are providing options for the senior squad will they be worth talking about, until then it's just a pipe dream.

[Rmpr 8,977]

What a shit piece of article when he talks about Roman!

I completely agree with The only place to be...

[SinineUltra 1,170]

Point is the manager at the time knew he was a busted flush and wanted somebody else but 'the board' in their infinite wisdom overruled his judgement. What supporters thought is irrelevant (and trust me there was plenty of supporters who wanted him gone in the summer let alone being our leading striker for the upcoming season). There are people who are making football decisions when they have no right to be doing so.

AVB showed no willingness to integrate youth players. I remember how he treated Bertrand. We are investing a lot on youth but that's it. We just have more talented young players than we did a few years ago. Only when they are providing options for the senior squad will they be worth talking about, until then it's just a pipe dream.

Regarding youth - Roman took over June 2003 and has been trying to make our academy bring through players. Till now most of the players that have been sent away have been the product of PRE Roman time, they might have trained in better facilities since he took over but the bulk of their footballing knowledge has came before the Russian.

I think the real testimony for the work and effort put into youth academy comes in a year or two when boys -who have been part of the modern youth system of the Chelsea we have known for years now- come through. The early fruits can be tasted already with FA Youth Cup victories in 2010 and most recently 2012. Not to mention that we have been very stable in the tournament, always making it far in the knock out stages and beating one of the powerhouses in youth development Barcelona 2-0 away in NextGen series.

So I think the future is bright, they just haven't peaked yet. Also more and more prominent clubs are willing to take / want to take our players on loan for much needed play time. Illustrated by successful loans of KvB, Lukaku etc.

[NishC300 1,865]

bushman has become active here because he was banned from a neutral football forum (TFF, a forum previously owned by Jim). He was banned for spamming the board with vulgar/poorly articulated posts in which he just 'stated the obvious', plus.. general derailing, trolling, bickering etc.

We actually found out he was only 13 years old, which explains a lot, but still..

Man there are many very good 13 yrs I have a friend who's 12 and he's gr8 chelsea fan!