Why Are We Playing 4-2-3-1?

[Spike 12,049]

WARNING FANTASY TEAM

1. Mata is lazy as all hell on defence and always looks somewhat afraid to make challenges. He is clever enough to be a sole Number 10 (I refuse to use the term false 9).

2. Theo works hard out right, and will play essentially as a wide foward.

3. Eden works hard out left and just let him do whatever he wants.

4. César and Fabio are very dynamic fullbacks that can attack and defend all day.

5. Captain and Gazz work well together even though they are less talented than Luiz.

6. Moutinho and Lamps work hard. They can put in a tackle and pick a clever pass.

7. Busquets is the best DM in the world bar none.

Just me having a wank. Leave me alone.

[Slam Dunk 1,442]

I agree with whoever said the formation isn't as important as the players out there on the pitch and their roles in the team. From now until the end of the upcoming transfer windows, it's damage limitation as far as i'm concerned. I posted my thoughts about the christmas tree formation ages ago, and i'm still waiting to see it, but if we're insistent upon sticking with 4-2-3-1, then we need to be lining up:

Cech

Azpilicueta - Ivan - Cahill (JT when fit) - Cole

Luiz - Mikel

Moses - Mata - Hazard

Torres

This has to be our starting lineup. The midfield is seriously lacking in power and on-the-ball ability going forward (we all know this), so Luiz needs to be there, especially as Romeu is out, Lampard isn't and never has been a deep-lying player. I know he only played the role against a poor opponent, but Luiz is our best option imo. This also means he isn't at CB, which is fine with me

So Ramires is out of the team, and so is Oscar. Having Oscar in the team means Mata has to play on the wing, in which he doesn't work hard enough up and down the flanks like Hazard, who, by the way I have been very impressed with lately, we're going to have a very complete player on our hands soon, as opposed to a new 'Messi'. Anyway, Mata is so crucial to the team (unfortunately) and the fact that we rely on him so much means he has to play the no.10 role even if he is a little too weak on the ball for me.

Torres is our only true striker, and like it or not, he will be until we sign a new 'marquee' striker imo. The only way we're ever going to get some kind of form out of him, is with Mata in behind him. This means our best option for RW is Moses, who works incredibly hard, even if his end product is lacking. It may be like having a more powerful, more technical version of Ramires on the wing, but it's all we've got.

[Strike 7,474]

Henrique has pointed it out. We need a manager actually in charge of transfers etc and I believe no one other than Pep Guardiola or Jose Mourinho could walk into Chelsea and control all first team affairs under Roman's watch

Let us revaluate our objective this season and just finish top 4 regardless of what happens in Europa League, COC, FACup. Pep or Jose in the summer is A MUST to sort our team (bunch of talented individuals)

Jurgen Klopp or any other manager mentioned don't stand a chance imo. they would never get total control of first team affairs. Pep or Jose. That's all

[Deanocfc 22]

I've read a few detailed reports on what people think needs to be changed but I think 3 key things will improve the team:

1. If we aren't going to change the formation then play Lampard or Oscar in the double pivot with Mikel. Ramires is fantastic but the link between the defence and deep midfield to attack isn't working because of the lack of vision/passing ability that Rami and Mikel have. They move it on to the front three and it's like "you open up the defence", there's too much pressure on them. David Luiz looked good in this position as he threaded some balls to get behind the defenders, using the clever runs of the front three.

2. If we are going to change the formation, then I think a 4-3-3 has to happen again. I think this formation will loosen us up and we would lose the rigid, predictable look of our side in the last couple of months. Oscar/Lampard and Ramires playing off Mikel in the middle with Hazard and Mata playing off of STURRIDGE (when fit), sounds more appealing to me.

3. Sign a striker who can score goals. It's the most key thing we are missing. With Torres we are toothless and it's like playing with 10 men. You can see the lack of confidence that our attacking midfielders have in him as Mata and Hazard prefer to pass to each other than look for Torres. When Sturridge is fit I'd play him over Torres every day - he's quicker, more technical, confident and has a 'ready' attitude and body language. But we do need another striker. And right now I'd be happy with literally any other premier league striker who's playing every week.

I'd rather have a consistently good/run of the mill prem striker than a striker who shows flashes of excellence followed by hours of hopeless, infuriating crap.

I think we should seriously look at Fletcher at Sunderland, but to be honest I'd be more happy having fucking Grant Holt or Rickie Lambert wearing our number 9 shirt right now.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I was hoping for a good discussion about formations and tactics and sadly got yet another Mikel 'debate', if you can call it that. No offence to the opening post, but I stopped reading when you said Tiote is better than Mikel.

Luckily @Rmpr, managed to steer this topic back on track. Thank you!

I agree that there are very small differences between formations like 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1, 4-1-4-1, 4-3-2-1...etc When you get on the pitch it's all about the players and how they move and where they like to play. The shape changes completely depending on the players and the situation.

Our current problem is not the formation. There is no formation that can magically solve all of our problems. Our problems are lack of squad depth, lack of quality in some areas (I'm looking at you Torres!), injuries and suspensions and mostly absence of team spirit since Robbie left.

[SeB 1,281]

Most of what I could have said has already been said on this page. In my opinion, in 4231 the player in the hole is crucial with and without the ball. He's the one who can make vary the shape of the team.

I did that after the Fulham game, that was the first time we saw that in a fairly regular basis in the first half

[Spike 12,049]

@SeB, and the Right Back was nameless. Condemed to a life and death of anonymity. Here lies the Unkown Right Back. He gave his life, his body, his everything for our right to have clean sheets.

[SeB 1,281]

Stupid post, Tiote is one of the best at what he does, you're basically saying Essiens job was pointless, yeah well say that when your team is constantly winning the ball back and holding posession. I suggest you watch these players more instead of going on about them, you go on about Mikel like he's a god yet he plays shit and is so average at best it's unbelievable.

I know you love stats so that's for you

Cabaye:

4 goals, 6 assists, 51 shots, 38/133 crosses, 56 key passes, 95/175 long balls, 34 fouls

Tioté

0 goal, 1 assist, 29 shots, 3/22 crosses, 13 key passes, 96/137 long balls, 57 fouls

Both were played in a double pivot so shared the defensive and attacking duties. So tell me who's the best defensively, who's the best attacking? That's Cabaye.

I think we had a chat about Tioté one or two years ago, I was quite impressed by what he did for his first season because I thought he was able to do a lot of stuff.

Since he constantly disappoints me: doesn't acts as a box to box anymore, loses the ball more often, plays less passes, misses more passes.

He's an ersatz of a defensive midfield, like has been said he runs like a headless chicken to recover the ball, create massive holes. He was pathetic again against City, lost the ball a couple of times and he's unique responsible of one chance and one goal (the situation leading to the corner) conceded

Is he creative and plays that good pass forward after having regained the ball? I'm not sure about that

[SeB 1,281]

@SeB, and the Right Back was nameless. Condemed to a life and death of anonymity. Here lies the Unkown Right Back. He gave his life, his body, his everything for our right to have clean sheets.

That's incredible, I really didn't notice it haha

[Spike 12,049]

I know you love stats so that's for you

Cabaye:

4 goals, 6 assists, 51 shots, 38/133 crosses, 56 key passes, 95/175 long balls, 34 fouls

Tioté

0 goal, 1 assist, 29 shots, 3/22 crosses, 13 key passes, 96/137 long balls, 57 fouls

Both were played in a double pivot so shared the defensive and attacking duties. So tell me who's the best defensively, who's the best attacking? That's Cabaye.

I think we had a chat about Tioté one or two years ago, I was quite impressed by what he did for his first season because I thought he was able to do a lot of stuff.

Since he constantly disappoints me: doesn't acts as a box to box anymore, loses the ball more often, plays less passes, misses more passes.

He's an ersatz of a defensive midfield, like has been said he runs like a headless chicken to recover the ball, create massive holes. He was pathetic again against City, lost the ball a couple of times and he's unique responsible of one chance and one goal (the situation leading to the corner) conceded

Is he creative and plays that good pass forward after having regained the ball? I'm not sure about that

Monsieur Cabaye is one of my favourite midfielders in the world at the moment. He has been so since I saw him destory Man Utd at St. Jame's Park last season. It's a shame that he injured right now because if I could sign one player in January it would be him. But I doubt he would leave Newcastle in January anyway. However I do find it strange that Tioté has more long passes than Cabaye, but I suppose less of them would have been key passes.

[SeB 1,281]

Monsieur Cabaye is one of my favourite midfielders in the world at the moment. He has been so since I saw him destory Man Utd at St. Jame's Park last season. It's a shame that he injured right now because if I could sign one player in January it would be him. But I doubt he would leave Newcastle in January anyway. However I do find it strange that Tioté has more long passes than Cabaye, but I suppose less of them would have been key passes.

Long pass is more than 25 yards. Cabaye often goes for the spectacular diagonal one whereas as you shall have noticed, Tioté feeds a lot the channels

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Monsieur Cabaye is one of my favourite midfielders in the world at the moment. He has been so since I saw him destory Man Utd at St. Jame's Park last season. It's a shame that he injured right now because if I could sign one player in January it would be him. But I doubt he would leave Newcastle in January anyway. However I do find it strange that Tioté has more long passes than Cabaye, but I suppose less of them would have been key passes.

Long passes is a stat that can be greatly improved upon because it's so misleading right now. For example, David Luiz has 6.3 successful long balls a game because he plays a lot of 25-30 yard passes to unmarked players ahead of him or on the wings. It's not a particularly difficult pass. How successful has Luiz been when he tries his long balls way up the field? Not successful at all. The long balls that some midfielders hit are sometimes back to the keeper or to a defender yet these long balls are not differentiated from say a long ball that hits a streaking winger who is well covered which is an incredible pass. There is no differentiation in the stat between types of long balls. I would love to see the stat broken down into forward, sideways, and backwards long balls as well as long balls from which zone to which zone at the least.

[Kojo 4,676]

I know you love stats so that's for you

Cabaye:

4 goals, 6 assists, 51 shots, 38/133 crosses, 56 key passes, 95/175 long balls, 34 fouls

Tioté

0 goal, 1 assist, 29 shots, 3/22 crosses, 13 key passes, 96/137 long balls, 57 fouls

Both were played in a double pivot so shared the defensive and attacking duties. So tell me who's the best defensively, who's the best attacking? That's Cabaye.

I think we had a chat about Tioté one or two years ago, I was quite impressed by what he did for his first season because I thought he was able to do a lot of stuff.

Since he constantly disappoints me: doesn't acts as a box to box anymore, loses the ball more often, plays less passes, misses more passes.

He's an ersatz of a defensive midfield, like has been said he runs like a headless chicken to recover the ball, create massive holes. He was pathetic again against City, lost the ball a couple of times and he's unique responsible of one chance and one goal (the situation leading to the corner) conceded

Is he creative and plays that good pass forward after having regained the ball? I'm not sure about that

Well of course your right, you're this big scout with big posts and lots of stats, sorry to of misjudge you, i will never get in the way of your greatness ever again.

[SeB 1,281]

Well of course your right, you're this big scout with big posts and lots of stats, sorry to of misjudge you, i will never get in the way of your greatness ever again.

You're such a twat, who's speaking about me being a scout? Is that you or me? Wonder from where you found that out by the way but that's pretty annoying.

[LukakutoStamford 779]

4-2-3-1 doesn't work for Chelsea's personnel. There is no sufficent 2 pairing that can properly handle the duties. I think a 4-3-2-1 or a 4-5-1 would be a much better formation. Hell go to a 4-6-0 if it means Torres isn't on the pitch.

I think the front needs to be fluid to allow for Hazard to play on the left, right or middle with overlap from Mata and Oscar and vice versa.