The Benitez Thread

[rafafan 10]

Hello everyone, Liverpool fan here following the career of a hero , been following this forum since rafa got the job. and had to register to make the following point regarding Benitez and Mourinho.

Who is the first manager out of Benitez, Mourinho, Ferguson, Wenger, Mancini, to reach 2 Champions League finals ? answer ; Rafa

(Guardiola started in 08/09 but he achieved 2 finals in 3 seasons with his Mega Team but your interim also did the same before without xavi, inietsa, messi, villa)

Which Manager has the highest win ratio in the Champions League ? answer rafa

If comparisons are to be made between Mourinho and rafa then look at there tenure in english football at the same time as each other, Mourinho 3 seasons and a half, 2 League titles, 2 League cups, 1 Fa Cup, 1 charity shield, spending Romans millions .

Rafa in the same time as jose, 1 european Cup, 1 fa Cup, 1 uefa Super cup, 1 charity Shield, 1 Europen cup final runner up, 1 Worlc Club Cup Final Runner up, and 1 League Cup final Runner up, spending 70% less than mourinho, and inheriting, quality such as Djimi traore, Milan baros, Igor biscan, and not Drogba, Lampard, duff, robben , terry etc.

Between 07/08-.08/09 , Liverpool lost only 6 Premier league Matches ( 3 in injury time.) out of 76 Premier league matches, which is comparable with Mourinho's first 2 seasons, the only difference being you had a quality squad, and we only had a quality first team, we had 1 striker in toress , otherwise we would have won the league, in those 2 seasons.

(Ancelloti won the league with less points in 09/10 and more defeats)

That was achieved under the ownership of Hicks and gillett, you know the guys who were bankrupting us, and not bankrolling like roman is, 2 different conditions of work for both managers.

Inter Milan, 2 trophies were won, and he only took charge of 12 games in the league, with the first 8 games being unbeaten in the league and top of the table, and quicker qualification for CL second round then Jose achieved in his 2 seasons. but then injuries took their toll on an overaged and overused squad from Jose ( 15 players above 30.) and Rafa decided to take on morrati and sound him out over no investment into the team where previously Jose spent over 90 Million pounds.

There are reasons as to why Inter was bad, but not as bad as the haters from Media will have you believing, Rafa wanted fresh legs, and his point has proven since since he left them,

Jose has all the Medals, he goes to the richest and biggest clubs, name me a club that he has not gone to that is not the richest or powerful enough to not compete? e.g Valecia, Liverpool ...

Also Jose has also been sacked from jobs, its not just rafa, Benfica, and Chelsea, and possibly Madrid maybe , Mutual consent is a sacking ???

They are 2 fantastic managers, but 1 is a builder of Teams (Jose) who only cares about today, and other who builds clubs ( rafa) who cares about tommorow, ask Liverpool fans about the academy. ( Jose makes decisions with head, Rafa with the Heart, truth be told he should have left Liverpool after Hicks and Gillett entered but he fell in love with the club and sacrificed his career to make us League champions, and he almost did on peanut budget.

Another comparison to make between both managers will be transfer records and signings, name me a single player signed by mourinho at Chelsea, inter Milan, and at real Madrid , that will leave for more money than originally bought, and also a single youth player that he has developed ? Rafa wins this hands down no contest.

The media love mourinho, and hate Rafa, thats why opinions of football fans are indiferent towards him because we are influenced by newspaers, talk shit sport and sky sports, the love rafa bashing.

I understand yours because of the comments, but he is one of the worlds elite coaches, and in the top 5 of coaches.

some1 posted earlier saying he is not world class, well mate thats just bullshit, apart from mourinho no other coach chelsea has had is better than Rafa including ancelloti and Hiddink. ( Hiddink has 1 fa cup win outside holland in 35 years of management.)

You will begin to see why Liiverpool fans think he is special, he has resources now, and can buy anybody he wants, at liverpool, we could have had alves, villa, simoa, hazard, jovetic, vidic,evra before they were stars, but from david moores to hicks and gillett we was skint ( imagine Chelsea before Roman.),

He needed to buy, to develop the player and sell for more money to get an upgrade, but at Chelsea its different now, and he will deliver the trophies and the football that Chelsea want, the seasons is going to be interesting.

[Rmpr 8,977]

@rafafan, your name gives it all...

You seem a Benitez fan, not a Loserpool fan!

[rafafan 10]

Also chaps you guys talk about the "ghost goal in the first CL semi Final" but you never mention that if the goal was not given, then it would have been a penalty, peter cech sent off, and you would have played with 10 men, and the result would have been more likely 2-3 Nil rather than 1.

You also mention penalties for the second Semi final , but you never mention the perfectly good goal from Kuyt in extra time that was wrongly chalked off for offside when he was clearly onside by 2 yards, it would not have gone to penalties at 2-0 !!!

You also never mention the " ghost penalty" at anfield in the 07/08 campaign when malouda jumps onto finnan and fouls finnan but wins a penalty for you to draw the game 1-1.!!!

how about the Volleyball handball from Tiago in the CL group game at the bridge, in which he fisted the ball off crouches head blatantly but Referee does not give a penalty ? the game ended 0-0 at the bridge.

How about 07/08 CL semi (3rd one) extra time Hypia hacked down in the box, referee about to blow for penalty then does not give it with the game at 2-1 extra time under avram grant !!!

Memories hey chaps !!!

there is enough evidence in these incidents above to realise what a job he did at Liverpool, and what he can do at your club .

[rafafan 10]

Hello everyone, Liverpool fan here following the career of a hero , been following this forum since rafa got the job. and had to register to make the following point regarding Benitez and Mourinho.

Who is the first manager out of Benitez, Mourinho, Ferguson, Wenger, Mancini, to reach 2 Champions League finals ? answer ; Rafa

(Guardiola started in 08/09 but he achieved 2 finals in 3 seasons with his Mega Team but your interim also did the same before without xavi, inietsa, messi, villa)

Which Manager has the highest win ratio in the Champions League ? answer rafa

If comparisons are to be made between Mourinho and rafa then look at there tenure in english football at the same time as each other, Mourinho 3 seasons and a half, 2 League titles, 2 League cups, 1 Fa Cup, 1 charity shield, spending Romans millions .

Rafa in the same time as jose, 1 european Cup, 1 fa Cup, 1 uefa Super cup, 1 charity Shield, 1 Europen cup final runner up, 1 Worlc Club Cup Final Runner up, and 1 League Cup final Runner up, spending 70% less than mourinho, and inheriting, quality such as Djimi traore, Milan baros, Igor biscan, and not Drogba, Lampard, duff, robben , terry etc.

Between 07/08-.08/09 , Liverpool lost only 6 Premier league Matches ( 3 in injury time.) out of 76 Premier league matches, which is comparable with Mourinho's first 2 seasons, the only difference being you had a quality squad, and we only had a quality first team, we had 1 striker in toress , otherwise we would have won the league, in those 2 seasons.

(Ancelloti won the league with less points in 09/10 and more defeats)

That was achieved under the ownership of Hicks and gillett, you know the guys who were bankrupting us, and not bankrolling like roman is, 2 different conditions of work for both managers.

Inter Milan, 2 trophies were won, and he only took charge of 12 games in the league, with the first 8 games being unbeaten in the league and top of the table, and quicker qualification for CL second round then Jose achieved in his 2 seasons. but then injuries took their toll on an overaged and overused squad from Jose ( 15 players above 30.) and Rafa decided to take on morrati and sound him out over no investment into the team where previously Jose spent over 90 Million pounds.

There are reasons as to why Inter was bad, but not as bad as the haters from Media will have you believing, Rafa wanted fresh legs, and his point has proven since since he left them,

Jose has all the Medals, he goes to the richest and biggest clubs, name me a club that he has not gone to that is not the richest or powerful enough to not compete? e.g Valecia, Liverpool ...

Also Jose has also been sacked from jobs, its not just rafa, Benfica, and Chelsea, and possibly Madrid maybe , Mutual consent is a sacking ???

They are 2 fantastic managers, but 1 is a builder of Teams (Jose) who only cares about today, and other who builds clubs ( rafa) who cares about tommorow, ask Liverpool fans about the academy. ( Jose makes decisions with head, Rafa with the Heart, truth be told he should have left Liverpool after Hicks and Gillett entered but he fell in love with the club and sacrificed his career to make us League champions, and he almost did on peanut budget.

Another comparison to make between both managers will be transfer records and signings, name me a single player signed by mourinho at Chelsea, inter Milan, and at real Madrid , that will leave for more money than originally bought, and also a single youth player that he has developed ? Rafa wins this hands down no contest.

The media love mourinho, and hate Rafa, thats why opinions of football fans are indiferent towards him because we are influenced by newspaers, talk shit sport and sky sports, the love rafa bashing.

I understand yours because of the comments, but he is one of the worlds elite coaches, and in the top 5 of coaches.

some1 posted earlier saying he is not world class, well mate thats just bullshit, apart from mourinho no other coach chelsea has had is better than Rafa including ancelloti and Hiddink. ( Hiddink has 1 fa cup win outside holland in 35 years of management.)

You will begin to see why Liiverpool fans think he is special, he has resources now, and can buy anybody he wants, at liverpool, we could have had alves, villa, simoa, hazard, jovetic, vidic,evra before they were stars, but from david moores to hicks and gillett we was skint ( imagine Chelsea before Roman.),

He needed to buy, to develop the player and sell for more money to get an upgrade, but at Chelsea its different now, and he will deliver the trophies and the football that Chelsea want, the seasons is going to be interesting.

i am a fan of rafa like you are of Mourinho no difference.

[Sheva. 5,373]

@rafafan, your name gives it all...

You seem a Benitez fan, not a Loserpool fan!

Surely he can be both lol.

[Kojo 4,676]

Also chaps you guys talk about the "ghost goal in the first CL semi Final" but you never mention that if the goal was not given, then it would have been a penalty, peter cech sent off, and you would have played with 10 men, and the result would have been more likely 2-3 Nil rather than 1.

You also mention penalties for the second Semi final , but you never mention the perfectly good goal from Kuyt in extra time that was wrongly chalked off for offside when he was clearly onside by 2 yards, it would not have gone to penalties at 2-0 !!!

You also never mention the " ghost penalty" at anfield in the 07/08 campaign when malouda jumps onto finnan and fouls finnan but wins a penalty for you to draw the game 1-1.!!!

how about the Volleyball handball from Tiago in the CL group game at the bridge, in which he fisted the ball off crouches head blatantly but Referee does not give a penalty ? the game ended 0-0 at the bridge.

How about 07/08 CL semi (3rd one) extra time Hypia hacked down in the box, referee about to blow for penalty then does not give it with the game at 2-1 extra time under avram grant !!!

Memories hey chaps !!!

there is enough evidence in these incidents above to realise what a job he did at Liverpool, and what he can do at your club .

You clearly never watched us last season in the CL did you?, even by your CL campaign you should know anythings possible.

Messi never misses penalties, he missed it against us when he could've put us to sleep, Arjen Robben penalty extra time, he scores that we are more than likely out, but what happens?.

Exactly, it's only a denial way to base that you still would've won as a fact. Why are you on here anyway?, instead of looking to argue like most of you scummy fans do go post some delusional crap on RAWK or something.

[Blue Armour 4,459]

We will sack him, appoint some one not as good after failing to get Mourinho or Pep.

It's obvious already.

Just a question, if given some control during the transfer window..do you trust Rafa to make good additions to the squad?

[Tomo 21,751]

Just a question, if given some control during the transfer window..do you trust Rafa to make good additions to the squad?

Hopefully he and the board can work together with signing's. Together i reckon they can find some good players. Giving Rafa full control im not too sure about, especially if it comes to eyeing a bargain, the last thing we need is the next N Gog.

[rafafan 10]

Hopefully he and the board can work together with signing's. Together i reckon they can find some good players. Giving Rafa full control im not too sure about, especially if it comes to eyeing a bargain, the last thing we need is the next N Gog.

How about Alonso, toress,mascherano,reina,agger,skrtel,leiva,johnson,suso,sterling,sisoko,crouch, Garcia, just to name few, they all have been bought and sold for very high prices to keep team competitive, also NGOG was bought for £1 million at 19 for the future not for the present, sold for over £5 million, is that something something really really bad, can a manger not have the odd bad signing for a million when you are operating at Primark and not selfridges. , look at malouda, bosingwa, thiago, kalou,, veron, just to name a few.

He bought some great players in and also some bad signings, but they were free transfers, Aquilani was injured in rafa last season, and managers after him never played him and loaned him out afterwards , but when he did play he was quality.

robbie keane was a good player at spurs so it was natural signing, but he became a trouble maker in the dressing room so got rid and recouped most of the money.

Its a media myth regarding rafa, he has a higher success rate of signings then most media would like to give him credit for its all part of the Anti Rafa agenda, AVB gets similar treatment but Rafa has it all the time.

He has an eye for good players, but let him prove that, so your in good hands, but I think piazon could save you some money !!

[Tomo 21,751]

@rafafan,

He has made some great signing's i would not worry about expensive flops but if we plan on bringing in some cheap players i still worry we might end up with a Degan.

Back to some of the things you said previously i do agree with you and i am starting to think he might be the right man for the next 2-3 years, although im not sure he is better than Ancelotti and Hiddink.

[rafafan 10]

@rafafan,

He has made some great signing's i would not worry about expensive flops but if we plan on bringing in some cheap players i still worry we might end up with a Degan.

Back to some of the things you said previously i do agree with you and i am starting to think he might be the right man for the next 2-3 years, although im not sure he is better than Ancelotti and Hiddink.

Hello mate, the only way you can compare is to look at their resumes and clubs they been at and achieved what.

, Ancelloti has 2 league titles and 2 European cups, but he had been at Milan for 9 seasons who were dominant and rich enough at the time, and including Chelsea, while Hiddink outside Holland has not achieved much , and International football is not the same as club football, but they are great managers and achieved things at Chelsea, but let Rafa prove that to you, he as good as them if not better, in my opinion he can do better, although his side is younger and new.

Ancelotti is not a great tactician, if he was he still be here but he is a great man manger, I am sure you already know, he had a very powerful Chelsea team at its peak cycle and same with Hiddink, they all great coaches, the difference between the elite coaches very minimal, but interms of tactics I think Mourinho and Rafa are probably the best 2 in the world, these guys are made from the same cloth, they think football is a chess and obsessive about strategy, thats why games between those 2 are so tense and decide by mistakes.

Hiddinks best foreign coaching stint was the 6 months at Chelsea with a brillaint Chelsea team.

[Tomo 21,751]

Hello mate, the only way you can compare is to look at their resumes and clubs they been at and achieved what.

, Ancelloti has 2 league titles and 2 European cups, but he had been at Milan for 9 seasons who were dominant and rich enough at the time, and including Chelsea, while Hiddink outside Holland has not achieved much , and International football is not the same as club football, but they are great managers and achieved things at Chelsea, but let Rafa prove that to you, he as good as them if not better, in my opinion he can do better, although his side is younger and new.

Ancelotti is not a great tactician, if he was he still be here but he is a great man manger, I am sure you already know, he had a very powerful Chelsea team at its peak cycle and same with Hiddink, they all great coaches, the difference between the elite coaches very minimal, but interms of tactics I think Mourinho and Rafa are probably the best 2 in the world, these guys are made from the same cloth, they think football is a chess and obsessive about strategy, thats why games between those 2 are so tense and decide by mistakes.

Hiddinks best foreign coaching stint was the 6 months at Chelsea with a brillaint Chelsea team.

Ancelotti isn't the best tactically although he can have his moment's, he had this one tactic (this was before Torres arrived and changed the dynamic) where every now and again he use to swerve the opposition by sticking Drogba on the bench and it worked every time.

When thing's go well under Carlo they go ridiculously good, like our run in for the double when we scored for fun, although i do agree that tactically he can be found wanting at times case in point our two CL exit's under his management but he did produce some great tactical displays too.

Hiddink tactically i would say is right up there with Rafa and Jose, when he came up against Rafa he beat him fairly comfortably and i would think he would give Jose a good run for his money too (shame we are never likely to see the Dutchman and Portuguese go head to head).

I do like what i see of Rafa with us so far if im honest (bar the Corinthains fuck up) although my worry is his man management, i remember when Benayoun joined us he said he had to leave because of the way Rafa treated him, even tho it was likely he would get sacked he couldn't risk it not happening. Im not sure how our players will react if he tries similar here.

[Strike 7,527]

In the game against Fulham, Benitez used Bertrand out wide but hasn't done it again since, why? because he saw for himself it didn't work.

Mourinho is just as 'negative' as Rafa. It's funny he was the one that coined the whole "Parking the bus" phrase since he has used that same method a lot over the past few years at Madrid and Inter.

And i don't see how mind games can be used as a way to judge who's a better coach

regardless. What about their respective projects at Inter? Mourinho is miles ahead in terms of getting the best out of his squad.

also, you say Mourinho was as defensive as Benitez. i don't see how. we romped to the league title in 04-05. in his first game he played Eidur and Didier up top and we won 1-0 through Eidur scoring off a Didier knock-down. Benitez predominantly always tried to shore up the midfield rather than attack for the win. evident by his league forms.

also, his title challenge in 08-09 was only because of Fernando Torres' free-scoring run. or else Liverpoop would be stuck in 3rd-4th as ever. Mourinho's team, inspite of having Makelele in the middle, had Lampard, Robben, Didier, Eidur, Duff attacking. in 04-05 and then Cole instead of Eidur/Duff in 05-06. Benitez played hard-working wingers like Kuyt etc. don't see how Mourinho is more negative than Rafa tbh

[Sheva. 5,373]

regardless. What about their respective projects at Inter? Mourinho is miles ahead in terms of getting the best out of his squad.

also, you say Mourinho was as defensive as Benitez. i don't see how. we romped to the league title in 04-05. in his first game he played Eidur and Didier up top and we won 1-0 through Eidur scoring off a Didier knock-down. Benitez predominantly always tried to shore up the midfield rather than attack for the win. evident by his league forms.

also, his title challenge in 08-09 was only because of Fernando Torres' free-scoring run. or else Liverpoop would be stuck in 3rd-4th as ever. Mourinho's team, inspite of having Makelele in the middle, had Lampard, Robben, Didier, Eidur, Duff attacking. in 04-05 and then Cole instead of Eidur/Duff in 05-06. Benitez played hard-working wingers like Kuyt etc. don't see how Mourinho is more negative than Rafa tbh

Lol hard-working wingers = negative. It's like saying Rafa is only playing Moses out wide to be negative.

Kuyt scores more goals than your average winger, the main difference is he never neglected the other aspects of the game and worked hard for the team.

And Mourinho is known to be negative, you will notice i didn't even mention Chelsea, i mainly said at Madrid and Inter.

[Strike 7,527]

You don't know the facts. Mourinho didn't go to Inter and got the boys playing, he went to Inter after Mancini had buiit a fine team and he demanded another 97 million pounds to buy players who were at or just beyond their peak. He then played them to death (65 games, some of them) in order to win the League knowing that he had already done a deal to go to Real Madrid. He left the Inter team knackered -15 first team players with long term fatigue related injuries and financially broke - (Rafa was allowed one purchase of 7 million). Not satisfied with that Mourinho then kept meeting the players from Inter, even when he was with Real Madrid encouraging them not to work with Rafa. He does this or something like it at every club. As for Porto - do you remember him flinging his CL medal into the crowd and walking off the pitch instead of celebrating? He had finished with them. Some delusional Chelsea supporters think - well good on him to treat clubs and teams like that because he really loves Chelsea. He is a whore - he doesn't love anybody except himself and money. He was whoring himself to Manchester United when he was at Chelsea. And although it might hurt your pride he did apply for the LFC job but was rejected. LFC selected Rafa instead because they felt he was the type of manager who would build a club and not use it. He is despised in Madrid and Spain and he will get the sack just as soon as they figure out the cheapest way of doing it (probably in June). Abramovich won't touch him and neither will Manchester United.

so basically, your argument is based on your notion that mourinho is a whore and not that Rafa is a good manager. That's enough for me. i have no opinion of Mourinho's off-the-pitch antics so, No point taking this further

[rafafan 10]

regardless. What about their respective projects at Inter? Mourinho is miles ahead in terms of getting the best out of his squad.

also, you say Mourinho was as defensive as Benitez. i don't see how. we romped to the league title in 04-05. in his first game he played Eidur and Didier up top and we won 1-0 through Eidur scoring off a Didier knock-down. Benitez predominantly always tried to shore up the midfield rather than attack for the win. evident by his league forms.

also, his title challenge in 08-09 was only because of Fernando Torres' free-scoring run. or else Liverpoop would be stuck in 3rd-4th as ever. Mourinho's team, inspite of having Makelele in the middle, had Lampard, Robben, Didier, Eidur, Duff attacking. in 04-05 and then Cole instead of Eidur/Duff in 05-06. Benitez played hard-working wingers like Kuyt etc. don't see how Mourinho is more negative than Rafa tbh

Hello mate, Just want to point out that in 08/09 Toress played in 21 league games, and scored 17 goals, if he had palyed more than 21 games taht season we would have won the league hands down with 1 striker in him competing with Manchester Utd, who had Ronaldo, Tevez, Berbatov, Ronney, and oh Fcukin Macheda whose only contribution to FOOTBALL was a defected goal against sunderland ( that hit his ankle from scholes shot) and THAT goal against Villa in the last second, and those 2 moments won them the league.

[Strike 7,527]

Lol hard-working wingers = negative. It's like saying Rafa is only playing Moses out wide to be negative.

Kuyt scores more goals than your average winger, the main difference is he never neglected the other aspects of the game and worked hard for the team.

And Mourinho is known to be negative, you will notice i didn't even mention Chelsea, i mainly said at Madrid and Inter.

inter - 82 points and 75 goals in the 09-10 on the way to the treble. using Milito, Balotelli and Eto'o in attack. in the CL, of course he had to be negative. he had a Inter team of Muntari, Cambiasso etc in midfield working their socks off to supply for Sneijder, Eto'o etc. can't say he was negative there. he won the treble and Benitez inherited the team and did squat.

Madrid - he's playing negative football in Madrid? maybe against Barca but nowhere else. they were attacking with a good tempo against even Bayern last season.

[rafafan 10]

Ancelotti isn't the best tactically although he can have his moment's, he had this one tactic (this was before Torres arrived and changed the dynamic) where every now and again he use to swerve the opposition by sticking Drogba on the bench and it worked every time.

When thing's go well under Carlo they go ridiculously good, like our run in for the double when we scored for fun, although i do agree that tactically he can be found wanting at times case in point our two CL exit's under his management but he did produce some great tactical displays too.

Hiddink tactically i would say is right up there with Rafa and Jose, when he came up against Rafa he beat him fairly comfortably and i would think he would give Jose a good run for his money too (shame we are never likely to see the Dutchman and Portuguese go head to head).

I do like what i see of Rafa with us so far if im honest (bar the Corinthains fuck up) although my worry is his man management, i remember when Benayoun joined us he said he had to leave because of the way Rafa treated him, even tho it was likely he would get sacked he couldn't risk it not happening. Im not sure how our players will react if he tries similar here.

Hello mate, you scored 2 Invanovich set piece goals at anfield to win the tie, but at the bridge I remember it was 4-4 with you guys 2-0 down at half time and we totally dominating.

The game changed when Anelka crossed and Reina let the ball spill from his hands, for you to score the first .

Hiddink is a great coach I am not denying that, but he has not achieved anything apart from chelsea anywhere else , ( psv not included) he did not do much at Valencia or real Madrid before, but yes he is a good coach,not sure whether he can outiwt some of the elite coaches of today on a long term project, but yes he is a great manager, so is capello, so is ancelloti, but I think he may struggle to bring success to a club which is not at the top of the pyramid e.g a valencia, or liverpool.

He is a brilliant man manager for sure.

Regarding benayoun, his best 18 months in football was under Benitez, he aint achieved nothing since he left, and rafa did make him the player he was during that period, otherwise why would Chelsea than Arsenal sign him, why not when he was at west Ham.

The thing is mate footballers are fickle bunch, we hear mourinho is a players best friend, but how comes he has lost most of the dressing room at Madrid, what happened at Chelsea ?

A coach has to caoch and manage the team and club in its interest not of some players.

[Sheva. 5,373]

inter - 82 points and 75 goals in the 09-10 on the way to the treble. using Milito, Balotelli and Eto'o in attack. in the CL, of course he had to be negative. he had a Inter team of Muntari, Cambiasso etc in midfield working their socks off to supply for Sneijder, Eto'o etc. can't say he was negative there. he won the treble and Benitez inherited the team and did squat.

Madrid - he's playing negative football in Madrid? maybe against Barca but nowhere else. they were attacking with a good tempo against even Bayern last season.

Actually they were negative against Bayern, for 20 minutes in the 2nd leg they attacked - but after they scored they defended for the rest of the game.

First leg they were defensive and hardly looked threatening going forward, i remember reading a lot of criticism for the way he set them up that game.

And in La liga, they're much better than all but one team, so it's no surprise that is the only game they play defensive.

Anyway there's really no point arguing about this, everyone knows about Mourinho and his defensive tactics in the big games.

[Tomo 21,751]

Mourinho team's know how to defend, their is a difference between that and being defensive.

Like with us when we needed to we were out of the blocks smashing teams (like against Norwich) but when we went to Bolton and faced Big Sam's in your face football we could cope with that too.

All the teams who get credited for playing good football get battered against sides like that, coincidence?