The Benitez Thread

[rafafan 10]

@rafafan,

He has made some great signing's i would not worry about expensive flops but if we plan on bringing in some cheap players i still worry we might end up with a Degan.

Back to some of the things you said previously i do agree with you and i am starting to think he might be the right man for the next 2-3 years, although im not sure he is better than Ancelotti and Hiddink.

Hello mate, the only way you can compare is to look at their resumes and clubs they been at and achieved what.

, Ancelloti has 2 league titles and 2 European cups, but he had been at Milan for 9 seasons who were dominant and rich enough at the time, and including Chelsea, while Hiddink outside Holland has not achieved much , and International football is not the same as club football, but they are great managers and achieved things at Chelsea, but let Rafa prove that to you, he as good as them if not better, in my opinion he can do better, although his side is younger and new.

Ancelotti is not a great tactician, if he was he still be here but he is a great man manger, I am sure you already know, he had a very powerful Chelsea team at its peak cycle and same with Hiddink, they all great coaches, the difference between the elite coaches very minimal, but interms of tactics I think Mourinho and Rafa are probably the best 2 in the world, these guys are made from the same cloth, they think football is a chess and obsessive about strategy, thats why games between those 2 are so tense and decide by mistakes.

Hiddinks best foreign coaching stint was the 6 months at Chelsea with a brillaint Chelsea team.

[Tomo 21,751]

Hello mate, the only way you can compare is to look at their resumes and clubs they been at and achieved what.

, Ancelloti has 2 league titles and 2 European cups, but he had been at Milan for 9 seasons who were dominant and rich enough at the time, and including Chelsea, while Hiddink outside Holland has not achieved much , and International football is not the same as club football, but they are great managers and achieved things at Chelsea, but let Rafa prove that to you, he as good as them if not better, in my opinion he can do better, although his side is younger and new.

Ancelotti is not a great tactician, if he was he still be here but he is a great man manger, I am sure you already know, he had a very powerful Chelsea team at its peak cycle and same with Hiddink, they all great coaches, the difference between the elite coaches very minimal, but interms of tactics I think Mourinho and Rafa are probably the best 2 in the world, these guys are made from the same cloth, they think football is a chess and obsessive about strategy, thats why games between those 2 are so tense and decide by mistakes.

Hiddinks best foreign coaching stint was the 6 months at Chelsea with a brillaint Chelsea team.

Ancelotti isn't the best tactically although he can have his moment's, he had this one tactic (this was before Torres arrived and changed the dynamic) where every now and again he use to swerve the opposition by sticking Drogba on the bench and it worked every time.

When thing's go well under Carlo they go ridiculously good, like our run in for the double when we scored for fun, although i do agree that tactically he can be found wanting at times case in point our two CL exit's under his management but he did produce some great tactical displays too.

Hiddink tactically i would say is right up there with Rafa and Jose, when he came up against Rafa he beat him fairly comfortably and i would think he would give Jose a good run for his money too (shame we are never likely to see the Dutchman and Portuguese go head to head).

I do like what i see of Rafa with us so far if im honest (bar the Corinthains fuck up) although my worry is his man management, i remember when Benayoun joined us he said he had to leave because of the way Rafa treated him, even tho it was likely he would get sacked he couldn't risk it not happening. Im not sure how our players will react if he tries similar here.

[Strike 7,478]

In the game against Fulham, Benitez used Bertrand out wide but hasn't done it again since, why? because he saw for himself it didn't work.

Mourinho is just as 'negative' as Rafa. It's funny he was the one that coined the whole "Parking the bus" phrase since he has used that same method a lot over the past few years at Madrid and Inter.

And i don't see how mind games can be used as a way to judge who's a better coach

regardless. What about their respective projects at Inter? Mourinho is miles ahead in terms of getting the best out of his squad.

also, you say Mourinho was as defensive as Benitez. i don't see how. we romped to the league title in 04-05. in his first game he played Eidur and Didier up top and we won 1-0 through Eidur scoring off a Didier knock-down. Benitez predominantly always tried to shore up the midfield rather than attack for the win. evident by his league forms.

also, his title challenge in 08-09 was only because of Fernando Torres' free-scoring run. or else Liverpoop would be stuck in 3rd-4th as ever. Mourinho's team, inspite of having Makelele in the middle, had Lampard, Robben, Didier, Eidur, Duff attacking. in 04-05 and then Cole instead of Eidur/Duff in 05-06. Benitez played hard-working wingers like Kuyt etc. don't see how Mourinho is more negative than Rafa tbh

[Sheva. 5,373]

regardless. What about their respective projects at Inter? Mourinho is miles ahead in terms of getting the best out of his squad.

also, you say Mourinho was as defensive as Benitez. i don't see how. we romped to the league title in 04-05. in his first game he played Eidur and Didier up top and we won 1-0 through Eidur scoring off a Didier knock-down. Benitez predominantly always tried to shore up the midfield rather than attack for the win. evident by his league forms.

also, his title challenge in 08-09 was only because of Fernando Torres' free-scoring run. or else Liverpoop would be stuck in 3rd-4th as ever. Mourinho's team, inspite of having Makelele in the middle, had Lampard, Robben, Didier, Eidur, Duff attacking. in 04-05 and then Cole instead of Eidur/Duff in 05-06. Benitez played hard-working wingers like Kuyt etc. don't see how Mourinho is more negative than Rafa tbh

Lol hard-working wingers = negative. It's like saying Rafa is only playing Moses out wide to be negative.

Kuyt scores more goals than your average winger, the main difference is he never neglected the other aspects of the game and worked hard for the team.

And Mourinho is known to be negative, you will notice i didn't even mention Chelsea, i mainly said at Madrid and Inter.

[Strike 7,478]

You don't know the facts. Mourinho didn't go to Inter and got the boys playing, he went to Inter after Mancini had buiit a fine team and he demanded another 97 million pounds to buy players who were at or just beyond their peak. He then played them to death (65 games, some of them) in order to win the League knowing that he had already done a deal to go to Real Madrid. He left the Inter team knackered -15 first team players with long term fatigue related injuries and financially broke - (Rafa was allowed one purchase of 7 million). Not satisfied with that Mourinho then kept meeting the players from Inter, even when he was with Real Madrid encouraging them not to work with Rafa. He does this or something like it at every club. As for Porto - do you remember him flinging his CL medal into the crowd and walking off the pitch instead of celebrating? He had finished with them. Some delusional Chelsea supporters think - well good on him to treat clubs and teams like that because he really loves Chelsea. He is a whore - he doesn't love anybody except himself and money. He was whoring himself to Manchester United when he was at Chelsea. And although it might hurt your pride he did apply for the LFC job but was rejected. LFC selected Rafa instead because they felt he was the type of manager who would build a club and not use it. He is despised in Madrid and Spain and he will get the sack just as soon as they figure out the cheapest way of doing it (probably in June). Abramovich won't touch him and neither will Manchester United.

so basically, your argument is based on your notion that mourinho is a whore and not that Rafa is a good manager. That's enough for me. i have no opinion of Mourinho's off-the-pitch antics so, No point taking this further

[rafafan 10]

regardless. What about their respective projects at Inter? Mourinho is miles ahead in terms of getting the best out of his squad.

also, you say Mourinho was as defensive as Benitez. i don't see how. we romped to the league title in 04-05. in his first game he played Eidur and Didier up top and we won 1-0 through Eidur scoring off a Didier knock-down. Benitez predominantly always tried to shore up the midfield rather than attack for the win. evident by his league forms.

also, his title challenge in 08-09 was only because of Fernando Torres' free-scoring run. or else Liverpoop would be stuck in 3rd-4th as ever. Mourinho's team, inspite of having Makelele in the middle, had Lampard, Robben, Didier, Eidur, Duff attacking. in 04-05 and then Cole instead of Eidur/Duff in 05-06. Benitez played hard-working wingers like Kuyt etc. don't see how Mourinho is more negative than Rafa tbh

Hello mate, Just want to point out that in 08/09 Toress played in 21 league games, and scored 17 goals, if he had palyed more than 21 games taht season we would have won the league hands down with 1 striker in him competing with Manchester Utd, who had Ronaldo, Tevez, Berbatov, Ronney, and oh Fcukin Macheda whose only contribution to FOOTBALL was a defected goal against sunderland ( that hit his ankle from scholes shot) and THAT goal against Villa in the last second, and those 2 moments won them the league.

[Strike 7,478]

Lol hard-working wingers = negative. It's like saying Rafa is only playing Moses out wide to be negative.

Kuyt scores more goals than your average winger, the main difference is he never neglected the other aspects of the game and worked hard for the team.

And Mourinho is known to be negative, you will notice i didn't even mention Chelsea, i mainly said at Madrid and Inter.

inter - 82 points and 75 goals in the 09-10 on the way to the treble. using Milito, Balotelli and Eto'o in attack. in the CL, of course he had to be negative. he had a Inter team of Muntari, Cambiasso etc in midfield working their socks off to supply for Sneijder, Eto'o etc. can't say he was negative there. he won the treble and Benitez inherited the team and did squat.

Madrid - he's playing negative football in Madrid? maybe against Barca but nowhere else. they were attacking with a good tempo against even Bayern last season.

[rafafan 10]

Ancelotti isn't the best tactically although he can have his moment's, he had this one tactic (this was before Torres arrived and changed the dynamic) where every now and again he use to swerve the opposition by sticking Drogba on the bench and it worked every time.

When thing's go well under Carlo they go ridiculously good, like our run in for the double when we scored for fun, although i do agree that tactically he can be found wanting at times case in point our two CL exit's under his management but he did produce some great tactical displays too.

Hiddink tactically i would say is right up there with Rafa and Jose, when he came up against Rafa he beat him fairly comfortably and i would think he would give Jose a good run for his money too (shame we are never likely to see the Dutchman and Portuguese go head to head).

I do like what i see of Rafa with us so far if im honest (bar the Corinthains fuck up) although my worry is his man management, i remember when Benayoun joined us he said he had to leave because of the way Rafa treated him, even tho it was likely he would get sacked he couldn't risk it not happening. Im not sure how our players will react if he tries similar here.

Hello mate, you scored 2 Invanovich set piece goals at anfield to win the tie, but at the bridge I remember it was 4-4 with you guys 2-0 down at half time and we totally dominating.

The game changed when Anelka crossed and Reina let the ball spill from his hands, for you to score the first .

Hiddink is a great coach I am not denying that, but he has not achieved anything apart from chelsea anywhere else , ( psv not included) he did not do much at Valencia or real Madrid before, but yes he is a good coach,not sure whether he can outiwt some of the elite coaches of today on a long term project, but yes he is a great manager, so is capello, so is ancelloti, but I think he may struggle to bring success to a club which is not at the top of the pyramid e.g a valencia, or liverpool.

He is a brilliant man manager for sure.

Regarding benayoun, his best 18 months in football was under Benitez, he aint achieved nothing since he left, and rafa did make him the player he was during that period, otherwise why would Chelsea than Arsenal sign him, why not when he was at west Ham.

The thing is mate footballers are fickle bunch, we hear mourinho is a players best friend, but how comes he has lost most of the dressing room at Madrid, what happened at Chelsea ?

A coach has to caoch and manage the team and club in its interest not of some players.

[Sheva. 5,373]

inter - 82 points and 75 goals in the 09-10 on the way to the treble. using Milito, Balotelli and Eto'o in attack. in the CL, of course he had to be negative. he had a Inter team of Muntari, Cambiasso etc in midfield working their socks off to supply for Sneijder, Eto'o etc. can't say he was negative there. he won the treble and Benitez inherited the team and did squat.

Madrid - he's playing negative football in Madrid? maybe against Barca but nowhere else. they were attacking with a good tempo against even Bayern last season.

Actually they were negative against Bayern, for 20 minutes in the 2nd leg they attacked - but after they scored they defended for the rest of the game.

First leg they were defensive and hardly looked threatening going forward, i remember reading a lot of criticism for the way he set them up that game.

And in La liga, they're much better than all but one team, so it's no surprise that is the only game they play defensive.

Anyway there's really no point arguing about this, everyone knows about Mourinho and his defensive tactics in the big games.

[Tomo 21,751]

Mourinho team's know how to defend, their is a difference between that and being defensive.

Like with us when we needed to we were out of the blocks smashing teams (like against Norwich) but when we went to Bolton and faced Big Sam's in your face football we could cope with that too.

All the teams who get credited for playing good football get battered against sides like that, coincidence?

[Sheva. 5,373]

Mourinho team's know how to defend, their is a difference between that and being defensive.

There is no difference. Of course you don't expect them to be defensive against lesser teams, but in the big games his teams are dirty, physical and negative.

I don't have a problem with this, because it works for him, but i just don't know how someone can say Mourinho is not defensive, but other managers are.

[Rmpr 8,977]

Hello mate, the only way you can compare is to look at their resumes and clubs they been at and achieved what.

, Ancelloti has 2 league titles and 2 European cups, but he had been at Milan for 9 seasons who were dominant and rich enough at the time, and including Chelsea, while Hiddink outside Holland has not achieved much , and International football is not the same as club football, but they are great managers and achieved things at Chelsea, but let Rafa prove that to you, he as good as them if not better, in my opinion he can do better, although his side is younger and new.

Ancelotti is not a great tactician if he was he still be here, I am sure you already know, he had a very powerful Chelsea team at its peak cycle same with Hiddink, they all great coaches, the difference between the elite coaches very minimal, but interms of tactics I think Mourinho and Rafa are probably the best 2 in the world, these guys are made from the same cloth, they think football is a chess and obsessive about strategy, thats why games between those 2 are so tense and decide by mistakes.iddinks best foreign coaching stint was the 6 months at Chelsea with a brillaint Chelsea team.

H

LMAO

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Here are some managers who can be viewed as better or just as good as your so beloved coach:

Guus Hiddink

Some achievements: PSV - 6 Eredivise, 4 Dutch Cup and 1 UEFA European Cup; Chelsea - 1 FA Cup and UCL Semifinal (vs Barcelona); Netherlands - 1998 FIFA World Cup Semifinal (vs Brazil); South Korea - 2002 FIFA World Cup Semifinal (vs Germany); Russia - 2008 UEFA Euro Semifinal; Anzi - Currently 1st at Russian Premiere League.

He has only failed at Real Madrid, but all of his other works have been outstanding!

Hiddink is one of the most complete managers, he was excellent at clubs and national teams.

Carlo Ancelotti

Some achievements: Parma - 1998 UCL Qualification by Serie A; Milan - 1 Serie A, 1 Copa Italia, 2 UEFA Champions League and 1 CWC; Chelsea - 1 EPL and 1 FA Cup; PSG - Just wait...

He has shined in Italy playing beautiful football, that is more than difficult. He gave Chelsea its very first double, also playing great football.

He is a very classy manager and will have much more to do in France.

Jose Mourinho

Some achievements: Porto - 2 Liga Portuguesa, 1 Taça de Portugal, 1 UEFA Cup and 1 UEFA Champions League; Chelsea - 2 EPL (back-to-back), 1 FA Cup and 2 League Cup; Inter - 2 Serie A, 1 Copa da Italia and 1 UEFA Champions League; Real Madrid - 1 La Liga and 1 Copa del Rey.

Jose never had one bad spell at any of his clubs. Even if he gets sacked from Real Madrid, he will leave them in a much better position than when he first arrived.

He is arguably the best coach of the modern era!

Alex Fergunson

Some achievements: Alberdeen - 3 Scotish Premier Divison, 4 Scotish Cup and 1 UEFA Winner`s Cup; ManUtd - 12 EPL, 5 FA Cup, 4 League Cup, 2 UEFA Champions League and 2 CWC.

I absolutely hate this mother fucking cunt. If I meet him in person I might even punch him. However, you cant deny he is the most successful manager of the 90s and 00s. Maybe even the best manager in British history.

Pep Guardiola

Some achievements: Barcelona B - 1 Terceira Divison; Barcelona - 3 La Liga, 2 Copa del Rey, 2 UEFA Champions League and 2 CWC.

He was part of one of the best football teams to have ever existed and (as much as some people dont want to see) he did a fenomenal job. Barcelona`s movement and possession immensily increased once he took over. He is a tactical genius and is only begining.

I personally dont like his style, but no one can deny he is a hell of a manager. Maybe not for every team, but definetly a great coach.

Vicente del Bosque

Some achievements: Real Madrid - 2 La Liga, 2 UEFA Champions League and 1 CWC; Spain - 1 UEFA Euro and 1 FIFA World Cup.

I agree that his job at Spain is a bit protocolar, but at least he showed he can cope with the clash in the dressing room. His spell at RM was superb though, they had as a trouble team as they do now and he isnt having the same problems Mourinho is having.

Joachim Low

Some achievements: Stuttgart - 1 DFB Pokal; Germany - 2006 FIFA World Cup Semifinal, 2008 UEFA Euro Final, 2010 FIFA World Cup Semifinal and 2012 UEFA Euro Semifinal.

He is also a young manager and his time at Germany has been great, despite the lack of trophies.

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Rafael Benitez is a very good manager and his time at Valencia and Liverpool does prove that. However, I think he is too one dimensional to be considered one of the best managers out there. He has never thrived with a different set of players, formation and style of play. It is always the same way of coaching, with the same qualities and weakness. His time with a winner suqad at Inter is to be taken into evaluation. He either gets it right or the team is doomed, there is not much variation or second plan.

Why he didnt get any offer from a big club for nearly 2 years? I wonder why so many owners and president are really that stupid to let such an amazing manager on the market. He did say so many times in his interview that he was waiting for the right job, I guess an interim 7 month spell at a club he hates is an excellent oportunity.

Again, still a good manager. Just cant be placed into the top2, laughable.

FSW!

[Blue Gino 377]

Benitez has done many great things like rotating the squad, experimenting Luiz at midfield, letting people know that Marin and Piazon are real players, not cardboard cut outs on the bench, etc. His main job was to get Torres reborn and so far it looks great. I'm sure he has no say in transfers which is the norm at Chelsea but he's been exceptional at tweaking things to get the best out of what he has. Getting the defense more compact, having midfielders track back. Maybe when January rolls around Roman actually listens to the manager and provides him with what he needs.

[Strike 7,478]

Benitez has done many great things like rotating the squad, experimenting Luiz at midfield, letting people know that Marin and Piazon are real players, not cardboard cut outs on the bench, etc. His main job was to get Torres reborn and so far it looks great. I'm sure he has no say in transfers which is the norm at Chelsea but he's been exceptional at tweaking things to get the best out of what he has. Getting the defense more compact, having midfielders track back. Maybe when January rolls around Roman actually listens to the manager and provides him with what he needs.

Lmao! the only time he really rotated was for the Leeds tie. rest of the games it's just been the same squad with the same setup also, as someone already mentioned, we went behind in the CWC final and he made 3 like-for-like changes. no backup tactic. no flexibility in his system . and btw Piazon played under RDM as well. started the LC tie vs United. and as for Marin. only 1 start for the club in a League Cup tie against Championship opposition and was removed after 50 mins.

also, about Luiz in midfield. It's been coming. Mikel and Ramires' suspension, Oriol and Lamps' injury meant the move was necessary. rafa deserves little credit for that but you definitely can't hail him for a move necessitated rather than decided.

tbf, Benitez is growing on me. the team is responding to him. playing better football as well but i won't get my hopes up. it was a great win on Sunday but it was an under 21 Villa team playing a 3 man defence. they looked like headless chicken in the second half. he will deliver top 4 finish and then i hope we try and get in a world class manager like Pep or Jose. Benitez should be given an extension only if we don't get those 2

[BleedsBlue 1,549]

He's done a good job so far.When the club does part ways with him,Rafa won't be unemployed for long like last time as top clubs will be interested in his services.