🇧🇪 Charly Musonda Jr.

[!Hazard! 3,394]

9 minutes ago, CJRead said:

It's weird how John Swift got game time under Mourinho but Musonda didn't. Not knocking the former but Musonda is better.

 

Yeah that makes no sense whatsoever. And the only academy product integrated to the first team, Loftus-Cheek, got chances solely because of his physical attributes.

Mourinho is like job recruiters in the 21st century. You need to have a Master's Degree and 10 years of work experience at the age of 20.

[CJRead 5]

Just now, !Hazard! said:

 

Yeah that makes no sense whatsoever. And the only academy product integrated to the first team, Loftus-Cheek, got chances solely because of his physical attributes.

Mourinho is like job recruiters in the 21st century. You need to a Master's Degree and 10 years of work experience at the age on 20.

I'm aware I may get a bad reception for saying this, I love Mourinho but now he's gone at least next season we may see more of the youngsters we've been so desperate to see but Mourinho refused.

I can see why Hiddink isn't playing because he's only here till the end of the season, he want's instant success now.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,074]

8 hours ago, CJRead said:

I'm aware I may get a bad reception for saying this, I love Mourinho but now he's gone at least next season we may see more of the youngsters we've been so desperate to see but Mourinho refused.

I can see why Hiddink isn't playing because he's only here till the end of the season, he want's instant success now.

This may be true of course but I don't think it is. My own view is the youngsters are not getting games because they don't deserve to.

Some evidence of the reason for this difference of opinion between us comes in our assessments of Charlay's displays so far at Betis. I did not see the Gijon game but I saw the performance against Depor and I watched an all touches video of his debut vs Valencia. You feel that he has been fantastic but my respective ratings of those two outings are; OK, for a debut and very ordinary. There is perhaps no point in arguing whose assessment is right since we have both seen what we've seen, and think what we think. It is though some sort of explanation of why we see the bigger picture so differently.

I don't think I watch any less academy football than many around here and suspect that in fact I watch more than most. Even so, I don't share the general clamour that the kids must play. My call is that our kids must get better.

[kiwi1691 255]

He clearly has huge potential, but from what I have seen is still raw. It is better he is on loan getting consistent game time.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,074]

2 hours ago, !Hazard! said:

How the hell did he not play a single game for us....not even in league cup. Mourinho's "10-minute trials" are the biggest joke in world football.

There were times when Charly didn't even get into the side for development squad games, or was subbed when he did. What is more those decisions seemed to me to be justifiable. We must guard against getting carried away. It's not about looking good, it's about being productive.

There is a great deal more I'd like to say about this, and notice I wrote that I thought those decisions were justifiable not that they were correct. To unfold my argument on this however would take a very long post and, though I've been wanting to say it for years, I find that I can never be bothered to get into it. One day maybe.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,074]

By the way, should a mod consider moving all of these posts into Charlay's main thread?

[Special Juan 28,141]

Now merged.

In future just think before starting a topic and whether it can be discussed in the actual players thread, most of the time it can.

Thanks.

[It's too big 625]

7 hours ago, !Hazard! said:

How the hell did he not play a single game for us....not even in league cup. Mourinho's "10-minute trials" are the biggest joke in world football.

How the hell did Jose decide not to play De Bruyne and agree to sell him? How the hell did Mata get sold? The same for Lukaku too. It is just the Mourinho way it seems, won't give chances to the really talented young players. 

[kiwi1691 255]

19 minutes ago, It's too big said:

How the hell did Jose decide not to play De Bruyne and agree to sell him? How the hell did Mata get sold? The same for Lukaku too. It is just the Mourinho way it seems, won't give chances to the really talented young players. 

 

The biggest gripe I had with Jose was that he didn't even give players chances at Chelsea, Mata was our best player 2 seasons in a row and he only played 90 min twice under Jose. If Jose gave these players proper chances, then decided to get rid of them it would be more acceptable.

[Jeronimo123 3]

7 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

This may be true of course but I don't think it is. My own view is the youngsters are not getting games because they don't deserve to.

Some evidence for this difference of opinion between us comes in our assessments of Charlay's displays so far at Betis. I did not see the Gijon game but I saw the performance against Depor and I watched an all touches video of his debut. You feel that he has been fantastic but my ratings of those two outings are; OK, for a debut and very ordinary. There is perhaps no point in arguing whose assessment is right since we have both seen what we've seen, and think what we think. It is though some sort of explanation of why we see the bigger picture so differently.

I don't think I watch any less academy football than many around here and suspect that in fact I watch more than most. Even so, I don't share the general clamour that the kids must play. My call is that our kids must get better.

Charly made a huge impact as a 19 year old playing his first three matches in La Liga. What do you expect more than that?  You desperatly want to be the realist, but you seem to exagerate. You think that La Masia youngsters had better debuts? No. Not at all. So why do Barcelona, the best team in football today, give youngsters a chance?

 

[kiwi1691 255]

1 minute ago, Jeronimo123 said:

Charly made a huge impact as a 19 year old playing his first three matches in La Liga. What do you expect more than that?  You desperatly want to be the realist, but you seem to exagerate. You think that La Masia youngsters had better debuts? No. Not at all. So why do Barcelona, the best team in football today, give youngsters a chance?

 

Barca are so much stronger than almost all of the teams in Spain, so it isn't a risk playing kids.

[Jeronimo123 3]

Just now, kiwi1691 said:

Barca are so much stronger than almost all of the teams in Spain, so it isn't a risk playing kids.

Just a year ago, Chelsea was a lot stronger than allmost all of the teams in England. Still they didn't play any kids.

[kiwi1691 255]

Just now, Jeronimo123 said:

Just a year ago, Chelsea was a lot stronger than allmost all of the teams in England. Still they didn't play any kids.

Chelsea limped to the title last season, the difference in quality in England is nowhere near as bad as in Spain.

 

Jose didn't play kids because he is to scared to take risks. He has no tolerance for mistakes, kids make mistakes.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,074]

3 hours ago, It's too big said:

How the hell did Jose decide not to play De Bruyne and agree to sell him? How the hell did Mata get sold? The same for Lukaku too. It is just the Mourinho way it seems, won't give chances to the really talented young players. 

I fell in love with KDB's game after watching a few of his performances while he was back on loan at Genk. So much so in fact that I then watched every single Belgium international and as many of his matches at Bremen as I could. (Basically every Bremen game that didn't clash with a Chelsea match.) The opinion I formed during that period was that Kevin did not really deserve the amount of praise he was getting for his efforts in Germany. There were many times I felt he must surly be dropped after the display I had just seen, but he never was.

Despite this I remained optimistic when he came back and my optimism went into overdrive after that simple looking, but actually genius, assist in his debut. I have to say however that what else we saw of Kevin, what little else for those who would prefer to put it that way, tended to back up the thoughts which began while he was in green. By the time he was allowed to leave I felt I could understand Jose's decision and I'm not the only one. If you read Man City fan sites you'll find that many of them, a majority as far as I can divine, also feel they can see why Jose did it. The consensus opinion among them seems to be that, with everybody fit, KDB shouldn't make their team.

Juan Mata was just a question of managerial preference. Someone has to decide; Jose made his choice and he won the league. Won it in fact by more points than Man City have in all their Premier League triumphs combined. This despite the fact that most appear to feel that City's squad in each of those seasons was far batter than Jose's last year.

As far as Romelu is concerned my perdiction when I first saw him play for us was that, though he might make a contribution as a squad player, he would never hold down a place as a starter for a Champions League level club. That any manager of a Champions Leage team with Romelu as his best option would always be urgently seeking a better alternative. This prediction is still live, still out there to be proved wrong, but it hasn't been proved wrong yet and I stick by it.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,074]

2 hours ago, Jeronimo123 said:

Charly made a huge impact as a 19 year old playing his first three matches in La Liga. What do you expect more than that?  You desperatly want to be the realist, but you seem to exagerate. You think that La Masia youngsters had better debuts? No. Not at all. So why do Barcelona, the best team in football today, give youngsters a chance?

 

I've no idea about those other debuts. I didn't see them.

I have seen better debuts than the one Charlay had for Betis but I don't expect better than that. This is why I described that performance as OK for a debut. There is a big difference however between me not expecting the performance to be better and you asking me to pretend that I thought it was better than in fact I did. I called it as I saw it. You saw it differently and I can live with that.

Though there is nothing desperate about it, of course I want to be a realist. If I didn't then surly everyone would feel even more justified in dismissing my opinions than they might already feel inclined to do.

If Barcelona give youth a chance it's because they feel those youngsters are good enough. No magic or mystery there. It is the business of their manager to make player choices taking the circumstances of his team, and his league, into account. It is the business of Chelsea managers to do the same for us. Successive holders of that post have all made similar decisions.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,074]

37 minutes ago, Jeronimo123 said:

Just a year ago, Chelsea was a lot stronger than allmost all of the teams in England. Still they didn't play any kids.

No we weren't. We got more points than other sides but that's not the same thing at all. Watch the games, we won the league because of the genius in the dugout.

[Tautvix 1,321]

9 hours ago, CJRead said:

I'm aware I may get a bad reception for saying this, I love Mourinho but now he's gone at least next season we may see more of the youngsters we've been so desperate to see but Mourinho refused.

I can see why Hiddink isn't playing because he's only here till the end of the season, he want's instant success now.

I think it's the reason why next manager (whoever he is) won't play youngsters. Instant success is what the owner and board want. If you don't succeed in your first season or even first half of the season you will be sacked.

[Jeronimo123 3]

1 hour ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

No we weren't. We got more points than other sides but that's not the same thing at all. Watch the games, we won the league because of the genius in the dugout.

Not really my point. Last year, Mourinho had enough opportunities to bring youngsters on the pitch in games that were 'already won'. And offcourse, you almost know for a fact that the first games of any youth player won't be mesmerising. But still it's worth to invest in them. Certainly when you have got a talented youth squad like chelsea has. It's all about cultivating an environment where youth players can grow and become top players. And that final step - to give youth players a chance - is paramount.

Musonda shows tremendous potential and that's why everybody is so enthousiastic. Just at 19 years old, he is one of the best on the pitch for three games in a row. Just arriving a week before his first game in a foreign league and having his first games on a professional level (in a team fighting relegation). That's very impressive. And if you don't aknowledge that, I think you're not being a realist at all.

 

[OhForAGreavsie 6,074]

5 minutes ago, Jeronimo123 said:

Musonda shows tremendous potential and that's why everybody is so enthousiastic.

Myself included.

5 minutes ago, Jeronimo123 said:

he is one of the best on the pitch for three games in a row.

I don't agree with this for the Depor game which is the only one I actually saw in full. As for the other two games, didn't see them so I don't know.

 

5 minutes ago, Jeronimo123 said:

That's very impressive. And if you don't to aknowledge that, I think you're not being a realist at all.

This is just another way of saying that you don't agree with me and, as I've already said, I can live with that.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

A new low for this forum. Downplaying Musonda's performances to prop up a manager that snaked us for United.

 

We've overrated a lot of young players over the years but it's clear as day Musonda's a special talent. Charly and RLC are two players that will definitely make it at the highest level.