Oscar

[cfcs most wanted 657]

Cam is one of the positions in which Chelsea lacks a world class player. Some of the people might still be backing him to show his potential, i respect that, but 3 years is enough time to be provided to a youngster to show his potential, Oscar hasn't. It is fair enough that we should move on.

[Socur Toxanarosa 145]

We don't need a CAM, we actually SHOULDN'T use a CAM, it breaks the balance of the team, we should use the very same structure that Barcelona uses, 4-3-3 with the midfield consisting of a DM(Matic-Busquets), a creative player(Fábregas-Iniesta) and a technical runner(Koke-Rakitic); if we don't get a quality player like Koke to do that function we could use Willian there and a buy great forward like Griezmann/Reus/Dybala, but we can't use a CAM with Fábregas in the team, one more reason to sell Oscar ASAP.

[robsblubot 3,595]

14 hours ago, chelseafan26 said:

We won the PL despite half a season of poor below the average performances from oscar. So i dont get the link. Also, that night in munich was once a lifetime oppurtunity and while I do understand what you are saying, there is sentimental and emotional attachment to that night which wont be rid of EVER.

I would take back ryan in a heartbeat. It was downright silly to even let a HG player go when we have such a dearth of them. I would take luiz over GC/IVA too.

On this point i have to massively disagree. Obviously you have to appreciate dedication. there are players like hazard, oscar, cesc, costa who just went half a season playing for us without giving a "FUCK" (pardon my language, but their attitude stunk the place up). You look at players like willian, azpi, JT, zouma, how can you not appreciate them. While it would be a lot of players who would dream to play for chelsea, they are not good enough. Players like DD, lamps, JT, cech, ash, maka, bison are special because they were not just good enough but also seemed to actually care for the club with their fight, character and love for the club rather than instagram messages.

You got me wrong here. We have a number of brilliant young AMs like musonda, boga, kenedy in our ranks. Oscar does NOTHING but eats away into the time for these younsters. On the other hand, mikel currently is the best DM we have (on form). I expect matic to be back to his 2014/15 beast self next season. If we buy a better back up DM, then good enough, but no youth player in our roster seems good enough to take that mantle up. And before RLC's name comes up, i dont think he is a DM and i dont think that he should be played in that position.

What you call dedication, a call quality.

Fans rather say their players don't give a fuck than to say they are not as good.

their work rate and ability to be all over the pitch and press high is exactly that: ability.

arturo Vidal, luiz Suarez, our own Costa (when fit) are restless because that's part of their game. Same with Willin and not so long ago, Oscar himself did that. Mikel is one of the most lax players I've ever seen - and he was as bad at the rest of the squad in the beginning of the season... started for Jose too... poor form at the start of the season was a squad problem (Azpi, Zouma, and Willian being the exceptions).

It you jumping into conclusions calling their issue lack of dedication. Do you know Oscar's work ethic? He could be the most dedicated player in the squad in training and physical therapy... wouldn't surprise me.

It prob has nothing to do with dedication - I've played all my life with very willing players who have no business at this or even lower leagues. Lower leagues are filled with extremely dedicated players. 

If you say Oscar does nothing, the same can be said of Mikel. Again, his defensive stats are very low for a DM, while his attacking stats are embarrassing; these are facts. Now if he is our "best" DM, like you claim (Jose and I disagree), then that tells us more about the squad than anything else really. In my view he's not even a DM but more like a deep lying short passer, something as limited as I've ever seen. Some people value that role while others don't and there is that.

btw, interesting you picked a single squad player from the list from Munich, one who will never be good enough to start for Chelsea. Mikel and Meirelles were part of the reason our midfield did not play and we produced that embarrassing performance (Mata too btw) - yes we won but because of one player: Didier!

now I get that Oscar as it stands is not good enough. However when you harshly criticize Oscar while defending Mikel, well it simply makes no sense to me: you are trying to fix one blatant problem in the squad, but is kinda OK with the other one.

BTW, at the moment only one of these two is a regular starter and should, but is not, evaluated in that context.

All arguments you have against Oscar apply to Mikel too, esp because he's older and has been at the club for 10 years! Imagine how many youngsters have missed their chance because of him.

again, I get the argument, but I feel Oscar gets more and harsher criticism than he deserves compared to other players in the squad. He gets criticized as a starter and as a rotation/squad equally.

[chelseafan26 293]

13 hours ago, Robguima said:

What you call dedication, a call quality.

Fans rather say their players don't give a fuck than to say they are not as good.

their work rate and ability to be all over the pitch and press high is exactly that: ability.

arturo Vidal, luiz Suarez, our own Costa (when fit) are restless because that's part of their game. Same with Willin and not so long ago, Oscar himself did that. Mikel is one of the most lax players I've ever seen - and he was as bad at the rest of the squad in the beginning of the season... started for Jose too... poor form at the start of the season was a squad problem (Azpi, Zouma, and Willian being the exceptions).

It you jumping into conclusions calling their issue lack of dedication. Do you know Oscar's work ethic? He could be the most dedicated player in the squad in training and physical therapy... wouldn't surprise me.

It prob has nothing to do with dedication - I've played all my life with very willing players who have no business at this or even lower leagues. Lower leagues are filled with extremely dedicated players. 

If you say Oscar does nothing, the same can be said of Mikel. Again, his defensive stats are very low for a DM, while his attacking stats are embarrassing; these are facts. Now if he is our "best" DM, like you claim (Jose and I disagree), then that tells us more about the squad than anything else really. In my view he's not even a DM but more like a deep lying short passer, something as limited as I've ever seen. Some people value that role while others don't and there is that.

btw, interesting you picked a single squad player from the list from Munich, one who will never be good enough to start for Chelsea. Mikel and Meirelles were part of the reason our midfield did not play and we produced that embarrassing performance (Mata too btw) - yes we won but because of one player: Didier!

now I get that Oscar as it stands is not good enough. However when you harshly criticize Oscar while defending Mikel, well it simply makes no sense to me: you are trying to fix one blatant problem in the squad, but is kinda OK with the other one.

BTW, at the moment only one of these two is a regular starter and should, but is not, evaluated in that context.

All arguments you have against Oscar apply to Mikel too, esp because he's older and has been at the club for 10 years! Imagine how many youngsters have missed their chance because of him.

again, I get the argument, but I feel Oscar gets more and harsher criticism than he deserves compared to other players in the squad. He gets criticized as a starter and as a rotation/squad equally.

Why should i judge oscar on how he trains? I will judge him on how he plays and the amount of effort he puts in while playing.

Who is saying mikel is "good enough"? Why do you need to put words into the other person's mouth. The only reason why i said, i would be "ok" if mikel stays as the backup DM next season is because we have no good youth player in our ranks coming through. Even the loanees seem poor. MVG has been atrocious and rightfully moved on. I have never got the hype of Pasalic. Seems very ordinary to me. Mikel is still the best option among these. This does not mean that i am opposed to buying someone and shipping mikel off. It just means that for me, Mikel is not the fundamental problem. Meanwhile Oscar is. He is supposedly the only proper no.10 in our squad, which would make look WHU look bad. Would he start ahead of payet, moses, valenica/lanzini. Hell NO. thats the standard of our only and main no.10 in the squad.

We are talking about oscar and mikel, so why would i include DD, Cech, etc? Yes, they were a massive massive massive part, but i dont think anyone would disagree when i say that mikel was our MOTM that night.

lastly, "All arguments you have against Oscar apply to Mikel too, esp because he's older and has been at the club for 10 years! Imagine how many youngsters have missed their chance because of him." No they dont. While both are average players, we have a number of youth players and exceptional youth players who can take his role. Meanwhile, we have no one who can do that for mikel. We would need to spend another 20mil to get a back up DM and for me, that should not be a priority this summer. a 2nd striker, a world class CB, a world class no.10 come way before these. replacing mikel with aranguiz/X/Y/Z would not make us PL champions. replacing oscar with isco (since oscar is a starter and the only no.10) definitely would.

[robsblubot 3,595]

12 hours ago, chelseafan26 said:

Why should i judge oscar on how he trains? I will judge him on how he plays and the amount of effort he puts in while playing.

Who is saying mikel is "good enough"? Why do you need to put words into the other person's mouth. The only reason why i said, i would be "ok" if mikel stays as the backup DM next season is because we have no good youth player in our ranks coming through. Even the loanees seem poor. MVG has been atrocious and rightfully moved on. I have never got the hype of Pasalic. Seems very ordinary to me. Mikel is still the best option among these. This does not mean that i am opposed to buying someone and shipping mikel off. It just means that for me, Mikel is not the fundamental problem. Meanwhile Oscar is. He is supposedly the only proper no.10 in our squad, which would make look WHU look bad. Would he start ahead of payet, moses, valenica/lanzini. Hell NO. thats the standard of our only and main no.10 in the squad.

We are talking about oscar and mikel, so why would i include DD, Cech, etc? Yes, they were a massive massive massive part, but i dont think anyone would disagree when i say that mikel was our MOTM that night.

lastly, "All arguments you have against Oscar apply to Mikel too, esp because he's older and has been at the club for 10 years! Imagine how many youngsters have missed their chance because of him." No they dont. While both are average players, we have a number of youth players and exceptional youth players who can take his role. Meanwhile, we have no one who can do that for mikel. We would need to spend another 20mil to get a back up DM and for me, that should not be a priority this summer. a 2nd striker, a world class CB, a world class no.10 come way before these. replacing mikel with aranguiz/X/Y/Z would not make us PL champions. replacing oscar with isco (since oscar is a starter and the only no.10) definitely would.

So you are claiming to know that we'd have better young AMs than Oscar and Oscar has been blocking them in the last 2-3 years he's been at the club... OK and at the same time you claim Mikel, who has been at the club for 10 years in all his mediocrity as a squad player/rotation tops, hasn't blocked a single youngster? Just because you personally rate this or that player higher than Oscar at the moment; even though the coaching staff and whoever the manager is doesn't? That's exactly the inconsistency I was referring to.

moving on...

Well there only so much I can read from your use of the word dedication or rather "give a fuck."

??? So you are saying a player can essentially slack during training and then show up for matches only and then if he shows he is trying hard enough that's good enough for you? How do you measure "the effort he puts in?" Is he slacking when he loses a 50/50 against a better/strong/fitter player? Have you played football and specially played against much better players than yourself? I have and let me tell you: you can put all the effort in the world and they will still embarrass you all the same. My point being is that we can't really say whether a player is or isn't putting the effort because it is very subjective. Unless you actually see him not tracking back like Hazard does (not) and *know* what the manager has asked him to do.

Unless you are really referring to quality, in which case, again, has very little to do with how much someone cares about something. I care a lot about football - more than I should and yet nobody would pay me to do anything related to it... Hazard could care as much as he wants and he will still never tie Messi's boots. Same with Oscar of course.

We are discussing the 0.01% here and dedication or will hardly does it. Either they have quality or they don't. And sometimes it is difficult to determine whether a young player like Oscar, Hazard or even Mikel back then is/was is going to become a really good player or not. Mikel did not; Hazard has to some extent, and Oscar's development seems to have stagnated. Yet we see it more clearly now, but it is difficult to determine when they are 20.

About the CL final, well to each his own, I'd pick Lampard, Cech, Luiz, Cahill, Cole and specially drogba well ahead of Mikel in that game, but OK at least he was better than Mata and Bosingwa. We were about to lose it all the same until Didier scored out of nothing, or rather out of the single corner we had in that game (they had 20!). He was a guy who could score without service anyway.

Now I still don't know why you are complaining... you don't have to suffer watching Oscar play. Don't know about your TV, but mine shows Mikel and not Oscar.

I miss Jose.

[The Skipper 20,609]

Musonda and Boga both have scope to be better than Oscar tbh. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

7 hours ago, The Skipper said:

Musonda and Boga both have scope to be better than Oscar tbh. 

Oscar had the scope to be better than Oscar.

potential does not help their cause at Chelsea.

do you really expect s huge change concerning the youth policy in the summer? Because I don't. The manager will need to show results with zero job security and will play senior even squad players.

[Unionjack 7,531]

I say he becomes our permanent penalty taker!

[The Skipper 20,609]

3 hours ago, Robguima said:

Oscar had the scope to be better than Oscar.

potential does not help their cause at Chelsea.

do you really expect s huge change concerning the youth policy in the summer? Because I don't. The manager will need to show results with zero job security and will play senior even squad players.

We won't be able to tell. We might be moving in a different direction this time. 

[Fernando 6,585]

I think Juventus wanted this guy. 

Wonder if Conte will rate him. 

[Jase 43,479]

6 minutes ago, Fernando said:

I think Juventus Allegri wanted this guy. 

Wonder if Conte will rate him. 

Fixed.

[chelseafan26 293]

16 hours ago, The Skipper said:

Musonda and Boga both have scope to be better than Oscar tbh. 

I cant even bother to address the guy who cant understand the thing you wrote.

Its as if his hatred towards mikel is blocking all any rational thinking.

But thank you on clearing that for me. I was starting to doubt my own self.

[Hybrid Angel 2,130]

The more I think of it the more I feel he might be the first Chelsea player I've hated. Even the sight of him on the bench seems to make me angry.

[robsblubot 3,595]

I'm so very sorry to have polluted the... hmm... very pristine hatred towards Oscar, with my hatred towards Mikel.

Moderators should definitely warn people if they misplace hatred... hatred should be contained in their designated threads so to be better ... found. We shall not make comparisons and point out discrepancies, otherwise we'd have nothing to write about, since most of the time we are wrong.

Now that the the experts have declared who shall take Oscar's place here, all you have to do is convince the manager - any manager will do. Maybe even any member of the coaching staff might do the trick.

Don't mind if I take it with a grain of salt and wait until summer to see what happens: I'd put a lot of money in that none of the aforementioned scoped geniuses will be it. Either we buy someone ready and old enough to replace Oscar or Oscar will be here another season. The rest is dreamland...

* btw, I don't really hate Mikel just don't really enjoy watching him play.

 

[chelseafan26 293]

Some people just love to play the victim, don't they. 

Sometimes, instead of forcing your opinion down someone's throat, people should try to listen them out. No one here is denying  that both Oscar and mikel are average players who should not be a part of the squad. But their roles in the squad and the number of youth players in the wing make their situation very different. Mikel is our 2nd Dm who needed an abysmal half season from  matic to get into the team. I don't expect matic to be half this poor next season. Which would mean mikel going back to his very bit part role. People are "fine" with THAT. 

Compare this to osxar's situation. He is our only recognised no.10. He needed to be abysmal for half a season to be dropped currently. Also, people are not replacing Oscar directly with boba and musonda. Replace Oscar with Isco or even payet. And sell him so that his 2nd no. 10 bit part role can be taken be musonda/bogs. If people can name one dm in our roster who can take mikel'a place. I ll happily see him off. The problem is we don't have that talent in that area of the pitch. 

This is my opinion. Very simple and undramatic unlike others.